Home Forums Reloading Bullet Casting Soft Cast

Has anyone here tried really soft cast powder coated bullets. I have and I have been impressed with expansion even in flat nosed bullets and weight retention in soft cast hollow points has been surprisingly good. I have been using pure lead with just enough tin to fill out the molds then dropping g onto a towel.

Yes, I have, but didn't find an application where they worked better than ww alloy for my uses.

I experimented with pure lead (coated and not) in 300 Blk subsonics; the round nose and SP designs didn't give any significant expansion, and my hollow point molds were already designed for ww alloy.

In handgun rounds, I always got better accuracy with ww alloy than pure lead, and am using hollow points designed for that alloy anyway.

Haven't tried any PC coated pure lead but I shoot lots of pure lead bullets with just a light coat of thinned Alox right up to sub-sonic levels at 1K fps. with no leading.

Next time I cast up a bunch of those little 90 gr. SWC I'll put some PC on them for sure.

Scott, I know nothing at all about powder coat and don't have a clue if my experience is of any use, but.........

I load 300 grain swagged pure in a .44 Mag with max loads. 2 wraps of 9# onionskin is good for MOA precision up to about 1600 fps. As you experienced, weight retention is in the 95%+ range and expansion is significant. Stuff dies, pretty much on the spot.



The bullet is a round nose form with a petite flat point of about 1/4" diameter.

Also have the following observations about the use of 180 grain 30:1 alloy with my Sneezer project. MV in the 1025-1050 fps range, demonstrated precision hovering in the MOA range as well. The closer parallel to your PC treatment here is my method of lube. I use dilute Alox and dust it with a mix of mica and graphite while still slightly tacky. In the photo below you can see the thin color of the Alox prior to my version of powder coating.

Impressive.

This looks like expansion from sand or dirt. Ever tried it on meat, or something that more closely simulates meat like water or wet paper?

It is and I have not. Dry sugar sand berm about 10 yards behind the target frame. It was about 18" deep. Will send along a pic first time it's blooded if a) I recover one and, b) it will transit bone so that will skew the results as well. I don't fiddle with test mediums...they are as hokey as sand.

One thing to keep in mind is the bullet has a fairly high SD of .276. That plays significantly in terminal performance.

Dan I see that you documented Lil Gun in the photo above. Is that the powder that gave best results?

I call it good enough but after a bit of further testing it appears that SR4759 might do a bit better. Finally got enough of it in the case to banish large ES numbers and it seems to be doing about .5" for five at 1050 fps over 50 yards. It is burning cleaner than LG at this point as well. Regardless, both are minute of pig brain certified. Charge is 7.8 gr, WW SPP, .001" neck tension, no crimp and about 85% load density.

Have you tried SR7625 for that, or is it too fast? (I'm not up to speed on what cartridge you're using). I've found 7625 to be very consistent for certain subsonic cast bullet loads, particularly in moderate case sizes with heavy bullets. My application is probably a little smaller case though, with about 50% more bullet weight so YMMV.

It's what I call the .30 Sneezer. .357 case necked down about 1/2" of length. Single shot suppressed

Is that case hard to form. Reaming, etc?

I quit using Lil Gun because it was very dirty in my Hornet until I went to a CCI small rifle magnum primer. Speed improved as did SD. Hells bells, your Sneezer looks like a Hornet on 'roids. Have you tried any other primers?

A couple of guys around her were doing that to a 38 special and calling it the 30 Badger.
Ronnie

You can run a 38 sp or 357 case through a 30 luger die. I'd been considering such a wildcat and having a revolver and lever action built to house it. But just too much $ for a novelty combo.

There be three variants of the same idea that I am aware of...the Badger mentioned above, the .30 Reece and the Sneezer. I have no bones to pick with any of the others but the essence is the Sneezer has a longer neck and was geared from the start for cast bullets and subsonic velocities only.

I have tried both CCI and WW primers (SRP and SPP) and find best success with the CCI small pistol primer. I also find Li'l Gun to be one of the cleanest burning powders tested with exception of 800X. 800X was also the only powder that acted a bit squirrely and gave some leading on occasion. Cases are easy enough to form. Anneal and run them thru the sizer, done deal.

Powders tested to date:
Bullseye
700X
800X
WW231
Li'l Gun
IMR4227
SR4759
2400
Goex 3fg

Bullet was a custom design from Steve Brooks, reamer by Dave Manson and barrel by Bullberry.

The 800X was a teaser...



Look close and see the lead on that patch. No rhyme or reason, but about every 3d group it would lead the hell out of the barrel.

The leading pic mirrored an experience with one of my long heavy .338 cast bullets..No matter what seating depth or powder/primer combo I played with the problem wasn't going away anytime soon.Had another custom cut with a tapered design that solved the problem..Musta been the forward band at full dia causing the problemo best that I can figure.The new tapered design shoots extremely well with no leading.

Two words Dan, POWDER COAT.


Send me some bullets and I will send them back coated. No leading.

Scott, I do appreciate the offer, but the only time leading has been an issue was with the 800X powder. Good with what I have at present. I can run 50 rounds through it without a trace of leading with the other powders.

When I get around to making a compression die the 3fg will get another trial. Cleaning a suppressor in the dishwasher cracks me up for some reason.

Leading is a general term, but can come from several mechanisms. The base of the bullet can be melted by the hot powder gasses and lead the barrel, the lube can fail to do it's job either due to an undersize bullet or insufficient lube causing the bullet to lead, or the rifling can be too fast for the bullet hardness and the rifling can shear the bullet causing leading. Not to mention the peak pressure the powder generates and velocity which play into the mix.

If you have a bullet that is just on the verge of leading and you are using a powder that is squirrely, i.e. causing pressure spikes. Then that occasional round with a pressure spike can cause leading.

Yep, 800X is cousin to the squirrels based on my research.

My offer stands. Any time you want to give it a try just let me know. Since I know you and really enjoyed our short time spent together I won't even coat them hot pink.

Mighty kind of you sir.

If I ever take the bait I'll send you a genuine Bill Clinton $3 bill I got tucked away somewhere.

In 35 years of casting and reloading, I've never seen a reason or need for powder coating bullets. Properly sized/lubed bullets of an alloy suitable for the pressure/velocity they are intended for will not lead. Just MHO.

Don

Ok, here is a question I never heard asked: Does powder coating induce wear on barrel steel, more egregiously than soft bare lead (or less than jacketed bullets I would presume)? It seems to me it would, thus abrogating, to one degree or another, one of the sweet selling points of soft lead usage: virtually infinite barrel life.

I'm pretty much the same but I do like people advancing in cast bullet technology. Guess I'll stick with the same old stuff.

I have a lifetime's worth of experimenting planned with lubed cast bullets and don't have nearly that much time left. I appreciate the experimentation with powder coating but were I to add that to the mix I would fall even further behind.

I can't remember the last time I had to scrub lead out of a barrel, so powder coating is more of a moot point to me. Nor can I remember using bullets with a hardness of over 12-14 bhn even with rifle bullets at 2000fps. When I want high power centerfire performance I switch over to jacketed stuff and be done with it, which is rarely indeed. The lone exception is in feeding my very hungry AR-15- with that it's just jacketed stuff period.

1) I do not own a lubrasizer and don't have the $$$ to set it up right.
2) I don't want to spend the money for every die and every nose punch.
3) I don't want the mess.
4) Powder coat works and works well.
5) Wheel weight is no longer available in my part of the country and soft lead works real well in my handguns.
6) It is fun and there are advantages to having different colours.

I have found no evidence of any barrel wear of damage in my handgun nor have I found any reference to damage from others who have shot a lot of powder coated bullets.

In my personal experience my barrel come clean with a trip down the barrel and back with a bronze brush dipped in Hoppes #9 followed by two patches. The second patch come out clean and dry and the barrel looks new.

Scott, I understand you position on the equipment side of it, but you might find some cheap help with Lee push thru sizers. They are cheap and quite functional. Custom diameters are also available for a small increase in price. I know that PC increases diameter slightly...having a push thru will give more latitude in moulds.

Afterall, there is slightly oversize then there is just plain stupid.

Dan

PS: I don't own a lubrisizer either...but I do have a dozen or so push thru dies.

I already use them and have used them for years. I just hate the lube. I powder coat as cast then run them dry through the Lee sizer then load and shoot. Did a batch tonight and will size them tomorrow. Getting ready for Quemado.

Sure... it's not a need it's a benefit.

The benefit of shooting coated bullets becomes more evident the more rounds one sends downrange.

I shot lead for years and never had a leading problem but it was a lot dirtier than shooting jacketed. Not just the guns but the loading tools and the whole process. Just the benefit of cleaner mags, cleaner holsters, gloves, etc.

Everyone I know that shoots a lot has moved to coated bullets. They shoot commercial brands and they are just as clean as jacketed...maybe cleaner because there is no copper fouling.

No one I know has complained about the change over or plans to go back.

To powder coat or not, that seems to be the question for some. It is right for some people and others are happy with doing it the old way. If you are happy with the results you are getting, then that's the right way for you to do it.

I wear Wrangler slim cut boot flared jeans and Necona boots. Others wear relaxed Levis and Tony Lama's. I drive 4 WD Toyota Tundra's with lift kit, 20 inch off road tires and tote a 44 special revolver. Others are happy with a two wheel drive SUV and a 45 ACP autoloader. Be happy with what you do because we get too soon olt and too late schmart.

I agree. I have done it both ways and mad my choice. I am having fun with soft bullets that expand and retain their weight but I understand the old way has and still does work.

I don't bother trying to convince people they should switch to powder coating. Some guys just want to hang on to yesterday, and resist any further improvements that come along. No sweat off my back; at the same time, I've never found any reason not to powdercoat a cast bullet, so I do what works best for me.

Hanging onto yesterday? Moi?



Dan

PS: I don't lube the bullets. Beat the crap out of them with a hammer and put some paper around 'em. They are pure as sunrise.





Boom.

No only beautiful (the gun, the shooter not so much) but it looks like a lot of fun.

Wal Dan, that is a nice piece pictured there, false muzzle and all. Wow!! You doan't see that every day. I tried paper patching swaged lead when I was shooting BPCR matches,(I realize that isn't what you are doing there) but gave it up for lubed cast bullets.

But one thing puzzles me about the photo at the shooting range and that is the topography, as in there ain't none that looks like that anywhere near Yankeetown, Florida. So you must have been at a match somewhere when that photo was taken. That kind of shooting is a special thing and limited to a few dedicated shooters all of whom seem to be dam good people. I miss it, but cataracts, resulting poor eyesight, and venier tang sights don't go together very well, so I had to give it up. Your photo's sure do bring back a lot of good memories though and I thank you for them.

That range shot is only a couple times zones west of Y'town. Some out of the way place called Cody, WY.

Since I never figured out how to take a pic of myself shooting I let SPG fill in for me. That cowboy can shoot, don't you ever not believe that.

Yeah, it's a bit different than cartridge guns. Friend of mine down the state a bit has one of those old slug guns made by H.V. Perry back in the late 1800s. .56 caliber, 1300 grain two piece bullets and about 200 grains of Lord Black. Boom! Damn thing shoots scary good.



Different gun, same theory:



My little 300 grain.44 mag bullet on the left next to the .22 LR, the .56 on the far right, but that one's only a 900 grain plinker.

You obviously got waaaay deeper into it that I ever did. I never got to the level of shooting at Cody with ole SPG and the boys, but I did try his lube in my BPCR shooting and I did go through the gun museum at Cody. SPG lube had a lot of bee's wax in it and I have a friend that keeps bees and got a bunch of wax from him for free. Tried my hand at making Emmert's lube, but because of the low melting point of the original formula Emmert's, had to increase the amount of bees wax. Now I make my own bullet lube because SPG lube is expensive for those who shoot many big bullets.

At first I used two lyman sizer/lubbers to keep my BPCR bullet lube in one and my smokeless powder bullet lube in the other because it is true that petroleum based lubes do leave more hard residue in the barrel when shooting black powder. But then I ran out of alox and bees wax lube for my smokeless powder loads and used my Emmert's formula on a batch of bullets fired with smokeless powder and it did as well as the alox/bees wax lube I had been buying. So now I use my home made lube for everything, but still subscribe to SPG's Black Powder Cartridge News magazine even though I don't shoot BPCR anymore.

Blow tubes, hot summer temps, long distances between matches, barrel cleaning after every five rounds, heavy recoil, too may required rounds that left my head hurting, and eye cataracts just got to be too dam much fun for a nickel. But I do miss being around those kinds of people. I think they are some of the most knowledgeable shooters out there even if they do shoot the holy black powder. They were about to drum me out of the brotherhood anyway because near the end, I got tired of the blow tubes and the cleaning and started duplexing my loads, which as you know, the Black powder fraternity takes a very dim view.

I was always impressed with the leadership that SPG provided. He was on the right track by going to the 38 bores which were not as consistent in taking down the rams, but they didn't leave you with a headache at the end of the match either. In those days, I shot a 45-70 Shiloh Sharps, a 40-65 Browning BPCR, and an original Stevens 44 1/2 action with a Douglas barrel chambered for 38-55. As my eye cataracts got worse, I put a Unertl 10 power scope on the 38-55, but finally got to the point where I just couldn't see well enough for that game anymore. I sure do miss it and all the neat people who were in it. I still keep up with some of the boys over at the ASSRA web site. They are a dang cool bunch. No cooler that you boys are around here, but they are better looking.

Ya know them cataracts can be fixed. Did that myself over the last few years.

Negatory on that condescending remark. I am perfectly happy to embrace inprovements and have. However, I feel no need to change simply for change's sake when I see no improvement.

Don

Take me back baby and I will change my wicked ways
Aw baby, just gimmie a chance to change

E7 A7 B7

Dude, you miss a chord and that there Bullseye might getcha!

Yep, and there is 16 pounds of it on that shelf. Ah pistol shooter needs a lotta Bullseye. Ya can never tell when one of Obama's brother Muslim's might come around wanting to join Allah and collect his 72 virgins and I wanna be able to help him on his journey. We Americans need to be sensitive to their cultural needs ya know cause diversity is ah good thing so we have been told. The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) says that if we do anything less, it would be discrimination don'tcha know and we wouldn't wanna be guilty of that now would we?

Let me see now, seems like I recall that they say something like this here: Any action or inaction that has a disproportionate impact on any person or group covered under Title 7 of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as amended is prima fascie evidence of intent to violate the law.

And I would never wanna violate that law. Nosiree buddy!!! But ahhhhhh, does it count when Muslim's just wanna kill everybody who ain't ah Muslim, or does the law make an exception for them? I have always wondered about that.

But I'm justa dumb assed red neck so I also wonder if anyone can explain how a Muslim terrorist can kill 50 homosexuals but Liberals still defend the religion of Islam which says homosexuals must be killed, or defend the practice of homosexuality in the first place, but a Christian baker can refuse to bake a cake for a homosexual and there is a country wide cry that Christianity is the problem? Is there an explanation for why liberals say that the muslim terrorist who killed 50 people in Orlando is not representative of all Muslims, but he and the gun he used is representative of all gun owners?

Yeah, I tell ya, it'sa real pain being a dumb assed red neck who just does not understand these kinds of complicated issues. I probably need some pointy headed TV type to explain it all to me. Where is Dan Blather when we need him?

Yer over thinking this. Soft cast is a good muzzy antidote I've heard, better than knives even. Screw the Geneva Accords......

Some good thoughts here.. And shared by many!!