Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats 6.5 Creedmoor VS 243 AI

I want to put together a 7 to 8 pound all up sporter in one of these 2 calibers. They seem like good choices for mid to long range work without thumping the shoulder or eating a bunch of powder.

I want a gun for banging steel and rocks out to 1000 yards and for predators and deer out to 500. It may be in my hands when a bear presents itself once every few years too.

The 243 ackley appears to edge out the Creed in drop and drift but the idea of better hunting bullets is a feather in the Creed's cap.

Lets hear your thoughts on the pros and cons of each

Thanks

That's some cool lingo if nothing else. I had trouble tracking most of that. I'd just shoot a .243 and go home with a station wagon full of meat.

Yet you still felt the need to comment?

Thanks for managing to insult my post and not give an opinion on the two cartridges I asked about.

What length mag box? I like the CM case better than the .243 case in a 2.8" box and the 6.5x47 case better still.

John

An advantage to the factory Creed with factory ammo is that you end up with a range ready rifle with the right twist out of the starting gate and no need for the extra work and additional expense of a custom.

There's no brass to fire-form and you're at the range the same day instead of a year later at about 1/3 cost and you're done.

Either one is fine for what you want to do, but if the ultimate goal is more range time, with the Creed all the design work, engineering and testing is already done...for practicality it's not a fair comparison.

John,
the doner is a 700 so the box is 2.8".
I agree on the CM but if I do the 243 AI I will have it throated so 105 grain bullets fit in the box.

Boogaloo,
I agree with what you are saying but I have the action and the stock in hand, I just need a barrel. Not looking to start with a new rifle

Before sending it off, seat your bullet of choice at 2.8" and make sure the ogive is not below the case mouth.

John

I have very little experience with the 6.5CM, ain't killed nothing with one yet. That said I have lots of time with a 250AI and I really, really like the 6.5CM. I currently have a Ruger Hawkeye SS in 6.5CM.

I think the 6.5CM is about the most well balanced factory cartridge introduced in a LONG time. One has to believe the barrel life with the 6.5 will be much better.

The next rifle I get screwed together will be a 6.5CM, but I'll be going short (21" barrel) and light with that one.

thanks Steelhead.

I'm with you on barrel life, it just about has to be better with the 6.5

I like the idea if a short and light CM too. I'm going with a bit of a 'tweener on this build mainly because I find the 7 to 8 pound set ups easier to shoot well.

I' m thinking either a #2 contour or a Remington sporter contour finished at 22" sitting in a McMillan edge

Dude,

Steelie and the others made some good comments.

Here's my take...

I don't have a lot of experience with the 6.5 Creedmoor, but I've shot my bud's a bit and I think it kicks more like a 7-08 than a .243... from prone, which adds up if shooting at distance. Not sure about AI in 243 though.

Lapua offers 243 brass. And I know that you can make Creedmoor brass from 22-250, which Lapua offers, but I'd lean towards the 243 myself.

I'm be more inclined to go 243 myself. If I went bigger, I'd go 7-08.

Jason

Not really comparing apples to apples. A better comparison comparison would be 6.5 creed vs. 6 creed.

I'd go 6.5 creed...no making brass and gives you the edge on big game in my opinion. I'd shoot an elk with a 6.5 creed...

There are just good factory rifles available for the Creed.

Either one will be great but only because of a good bullet, twist and mag length combo. The Creed has the advantage with the short mag box, but 6x47 vs 6.5x47 might be more of a comparison in a short mag box with better brass.

Any of these rounds are 1200+. Coyotes know to hang way out there.

Predators and deer at 500 is a very low hurdle. At the ranch I have a 450 yd small deer vital size gong we set up originally for black powder and it's no challenge with any rifle with irons. We shoot informal contests with handguns.

The OP has a 700 donor, and is looking to get a barrel, and have it chambered. Factory rifles really don't apply to this thread or forum.

Jason

I like both chamberings and each will get you to the distances you seek with aplomb. For the reason quoted above, I'd choose the Creed. OMMV.

The 6.5x47 mentioned above warrants some investigation too.

I'll throw another wrinkle in if you don't mind. I have 6.5 CM and a 7mm-08AI. Got the CM first, then put the 7mm-08AI together. After owning both, most of the advantages in a non factory barrel are imaginary for the 6.5CM for the handloader. You get a factory barrel that is twisted right and some decent factory ammunition w/ the 6.5CM.

If I were putting together a rifle w/ a custom tube and wanted a 6.5, I would do 260AI w/ Lapua brass. You get the twist you want (because you picked it), Lapua brass and the most powder capacity of the standard short action chamberings. Yes, the longer bullets will eat into the case capacity, but more is still more - you will get better performance w/ the 260AI.

I'm running my 7mm-08AI in a Kimber 84m which is really tight in the mag constraints. At no time have I wished I had picked a 7mm CM instead. Brass and bullets favor the 260AI.

YMMV

David

Go with the 6.5 and don't look back. Just got this in last week...

SS R700, fluted bolt
#4 Krieger, fluted and finished at 26"
Bedded McMillan Classic Edge fill
Leupold 4.5x14

Haven't weighed it since I put scope on, but guessing a little over 7.5 lbs; was 6.8 lbs without scope and rings. Have only shot a box of Hornady's 143 grain hunting load to sight in. Can't wait to try and work up some loads for it.

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Don't get this part? Plenty of good 6mm bullets. Although I am going with a plain vanilla 243 it's because I had all the dies, bullets and brass already. If I were to bother going AI I would do a 6mm AI but only in a medium or long action.

If starting from scratch the 6.5 Creedmoor has a lot going for it. I would go with a wyatts or other slightly longer magazine for either. The slightly longer neck and better barrel life of the 6.5 would appeal as well. Shoot 85 to 107 grain bullets and they start to overlap each other. But the CM has the option of bullets over 115 that the 6 doesn't.

I think that's what he was talking about...

That's what I ment, Jordan, thanks.

I know you have a bunch of experience with the 243 AI so I'd like to hear your thoughts.

I've never had trouble killing deer with a 243 but I like the idea of being able to run hunting bullets in the 120 to 130 grain weight range.

The 6.5 Creed has been the easiest rifle I have ever owned to get it to shoot great.

My Ruger Hawkeye in 243 has been slow and so so on accuracy multiple loads and about 100 rounds so far.

Took 3 different bullets 3 loads of each bullet for a total of 9 untested loads, in my sons Ruger American Predator in 6.5 CM 6 of the 9 loads were under 1" best was .6". I prefer the 6.5 CM.

If you're not interested in the longer/heavier VLD 6.5mm bullets, the 260 will fit in a 700 SA factory specs magazines just as well as the 6.5 Creedmoor and, as noted previously, you get a little more case capacity with the 260.

I like the 6.5 Creedmoor and think that it has 2 advantages over the 260; great factory ammo and the shorter case allows for a better fit in 700 SA factory specs magazines with the longer/heavier bullets over 130 grains.

The 129 grain Hornady and 130 grain AB have worked well for me in a variety on 6.5mm bore rifles.

For your stated purposes, I don't think you could go wrong with either. The .243AI is plenty for the kind of shooting you'll do, given an appropriate bullet, so I wouldn't fret the 10 or 20gr of bullet you'd gain with a 6.5 shooting 120's or 130's. I've seen many, many deer-sized critters get absolutely hammered with .243 and .257" bullets out to beyond 500, so no worries there.

In my mind the 2 chamberings have the following pro's and con's:

.243AI
Pros
- cheaper bullets
- less recoil
- easier to spot your own shots
- excellent quality brass available and easy to find
- OAL with longest bullets works well with factory Rem700 S/A or AICS mag box
- nearly no brass trimming

6.5 Creed
Pros
- increased barrel life
- excellent quality, heavier bullets available
- excellent factory ammo available
- factory rifle options
- no fire forming

I've run the numbers, and at least around here the barrel life "cost" and the differential in bullet prices between .243" and .264" seem to about cancel each other out, so shooting cost is about identical. So at that point you need to decide if the reduced recoil, excellent brass, lack of trimming, and easy compatibility with common mag options of the .243 is more important to you, or the heavier bullets, lack of FF brass, factory-chambered barrels, and great factory ammo of the 6.5 Creed is. IMO, the heavier bullets don't offer a realistic advantage, as they aren't needed for killing deer-sized game out to longer distance than you've mentioned. If you were thinking elk or moose I might change my tune a little on that.

So if you're planning on having a rifle built, then I'd be thinking about recoil, brass availability, trimming, FF, and factory ammo when making the decision. If you don't intend on using factory ammo, hate trimming, and don't mind using FF loads for hunting or targets, then the decision is easy.

A lot of you all have made great points for both sides, and I really appreciate the input from everybody.

I don't think there is a "wrong" answer between the two, but for what I want to do, I think the 243 AI may suit me better.

I have no problem shooting FF loads, as I have other ackleys and Ive always gotten great accuracy and equal to or better than parent case velocities while fireforming.

Lack of trimming is a plus, but I doubt the CM case grows much either, with it's sharp shoulder.

I agree that between the cheaper bullets of the 243 and the longer barrel life of the CM, it's a wash or very close to equal.

Honestly, less recoil is a big plus. along with the fact that I have a lot of 6mm bullets already.

Jordan, thanks for your well thought out answer. It put a lot of good points in black and white

Good breakdown Jordan. These two, that you posted, are tough to ignore and would sway me:

- less recoil
- easier to spot your own shots

Jason

If you were limited to factory rounds, the creed hands down. Other wise, I’d rather have a 243. An 8(7.5?) twist shooting 115 DTACs (when available) in lapua brass sounds pretty dang good to me. Since it already has the creed beat in drift, I’m not sure what you gain from the AI except for fireforming and maybe less barrel life. Have heard reports of less throat wear in the AI though.

My next long range gun for deer and steel will be a .243. Lots of great bullets from 90-115gr.

Excellent post Jordan.

The 6.5 certainly has more hunting bullet availability in the .5-.6 BC range. Whether or not that difference would ever matter in the field is a whole different situation.

I'd rather have a 6.5 than a 6 when it came to bear...

The conundrum -
6 vs 6.5
Both good choices with many good bullets to choose.

Barrel life and factory ammo vary.

How much speed do you need will determine powder capacity.

To trim or not determines shape.

A standard 243 gets a lot of work done. The AI and the similar 260 and CM in 6.5 have niceties.

In the end, a good rifleman will enjoy and be successful with any of these above mentioned if they do their job.

Me, I shoot the 47 but like the CM and 260 a lot as I do the 243.

A 243AI has one downside IMO, bore life. Yet one has to pay to play

If hunting Blackies a 6 will do with good bullets but no doubt I agree. If a chance encounter with an upset bear, well size matters.

Having shot a fair bit of deer with 6mm short actions and 6.5mm versions, I like the effects of the 6.5. Very, very hard not to like a 6.5CM or 6.5x47L for a balanced deer and target/practice rig. Sleek 120-130gr stuff at 2,900fps+ is plenty potent.


I've said it before, but I'm fond of how my 6.5x47L moves the .550BC 129gr LRAB at 2,900 with only 42gr of powder from a 22" barrel. And a 2.74" OAL fits nicely in the mag box while being just off the lands.

Any opinion on a small rifle primer in that size case when it gets cold out?

On a warm day with CCI 450 magnum small rifle primers in Lapua 308 palma cases necked down and turned for 260 Remington, 120 gr Nos Bal tip bullet , 40 gr of CFE will go off, but not 42 gr.

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I ordered a Benchmark 243 CAL SS 5R 1-8" TWIST #4 taper barrel yesterday.

I have killed deer with 30 cal, 7mm cal, 270 cal, 6.5 cal, and 257 cal bullets.

I hope to kill a deer with a 6mm bullet in 2016.

Folks, think of where the 47 was originated, the country has some cold weather.....it was designed as it was surely with thought to colder temps. Capacity is less than a 260.

I have or had both and even have two 6mm Bartlein barrels in the safe and one was for a .243AI build. The .243AI is great but after playing with the Creed I don't feel the desire or need to fire form brass. The Creed is just easy!!

My experience with the 6.5 Creed started with a Ruger American Predator to play with and use as a loaner. I fell in love with the accuracy and how easy it was to shoot right out of the box.


Below is a 200yd group with H4350 and 140gr Berger Hunting VLD's that I loaded to mag length and shot using the same load I use with A-Maxes, it also does this with factory Hornady Match Ammo. This group was with no load work up I just loaded three rounds and below is the results. In fact I have only shot three bullets out of the box of Berger's and was impressed but continued using the A-Max for the rest of the season. The five holes below is 140gr A-Max Match ammo shot at 300yds.



I used the American Predator last year and decided I wanted a custom so I used the action of my .243AI and had a 6.5 Creed built by Joe Collier.









Here is three shots with factory 140gr Hornady Match ammo fired by Joe before he sent me the rifle.


Like Steelhead said I think the Creed is about the perfect cartridge and would be hard to beat for accuracy.

I'm considering using one of my two 6mm Bartlein barrels for a 6mm Creed especially since Hornady is making brass for it.

Thanks for the info TN,
what are the specs on your CM build.

Maybe I need both.....

Rem. 700 SA
McMillan McSwirly
Bartlein 2b 8" twist 3/4 shank finished at 24"
Threaded for suppressor
Timney Trigger set at 1.5#
Cerakoted Graphite Black
Bolt Ti-Fluted by Karl with a Campfire knob.

Nice blueprint. What's it weigh

Another quick question. Threaded 1/2x28?

I'll weigh it again since mounting the scope and see.

Yes it's 1/2x28. I'm going to use the TOMB system by SAS to attach my Reaper MX that's currently in ATF jail.

Absolutely....it'd be way cooler and you would never have to wonder. Just do it.