When was the first repeating rifle or gun made? The reason I ask is I hear folks say that the reason we need new gun laws is that guns were single shot muskets back when the 2nd amendment was written and not anything like we have today.
Well I would say a weapon that was capable of dispensing more then one round before having to reload but not sure if thats the technically correct definition.
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
When was the first repeating rifle or gun made? The reason I ask is I hear folks say that the reason we need new gun laws is that guns were single shot muskets back when the 2nd amendment was written and not anything like we have today.
The right to keep and bear arms is the right to fight against tyrannical government excesses.
If all govt arms bearers will go back to a flintlock musket, then so will I.
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
But the 2nd Amendment and all early texts clearly state that the purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to allow every man to defend himself, and to allow the citizenry to fight tyranny both from foreign OR domestic sources. As such, military small arms should obviously be covered under the 2nd Amendment - up to and including TRUE assault rifles. Actually I'd say it covers machineguns as well.
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
PS, they mean nothing to politicians, remember that!
PSS, they might mean even less to the "general public".
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
Not only could, but did. Cannons owned by colonists were both destroyed by the redcoats at Concorde and successfully hidden from them.
The country's founding was kickstarted by gun confiscation attempts. Amazing the left doesn't know anything about history.
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
I hear folks say that the reason we need new gun laws is that guns were single shot muskets back when the 2nd amendment was written and not anything like we have today.
Our forefathers could never have imagined radio , television , cellphones or the internet either. Too much information (or misinformation) in the hands of the masses is way more dangerous than firearms.
Tell those "folks" that we need to repeal the 1st Amendment too.
Old Puckle would have been a good fit here at the fire,....in the second picture, his gun's fitted out with the barrel and cylinder for shooting the square bullets.
His design spec'd ROUND bullets for Christians,....square for dervishes and other Islamic targets.
GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
The Japanese had strong sword control laws that went away with the invention of guns. The ancient Romans had strong sword control laws that are gone now.
There were terrifying improvements made in swords between the short fat soft Roman Gladius and the long skinny springy hard sharp swords of Cortes 1500 years later. Imagine if Romans were sick of all those sword laws and dictators so they passed a 2nd amendment. 1500 years later many would argue it should not include that deadly mass murdering Cortes assault sword.
Guns have longer range. To an unarmed person range means nothing, but in a revolutionary war for political control, swords are now irrelevant, and so unregulated. Gun control has nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with repressive control.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
The problem is not how many cartridges a gun holds. It's about being willing to kill somebody. Throughout the history of firearms, a single well placed (or lucky) shot has changed history. As far as defense, somehow they think it is like shooting a target, with only a single assailant who waits till you're ready... The assumption of the left, is that if you have a firearm you cannot be trusted to use it properly. The rest is just a bunch of leverage to incrementally take away ALL firearms.
Preaching to the choir, but yes, the whole point of "gun control" is to leave the citizens defenseless against the armed forces of the State..
The Founding Fathers knew all about the 100% likely abuse of power inherent in those who seek to govern others and therefore wrote into the Constitution every counter to that abuse of power they could think of. The ability to counter the armed might of despots was the very soul of the 2nd Amendment. Were they alive today and the questions of AR-15's or any other weapon equal to those owned by the State were put to them, their mutual replies would be some 18th century phrase akin to "f'ckin' A right we want the citizens to own those!".
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
When was the first repeating rifle or gun made? The reason I ask is I hear folks say that the reason we need new gun laws is that guns were single shot muskets back when the 2nd amendment was written and not anything like we have today.
Well by that logic the First amendment was written when there were only lever operated, one page at a time printing presses and ink wells and quill pens, think about that for a minute!
George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!
Old cat turd!
"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.
I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me
As someone pointed out earlier, when the 1st amendment was written, it was printed on a hand operated flat bed press that produced only a single copy at a time.
Preaching to the choir, but yes, the whole point of "gun control" is to leave the citizens defenseless against the armed forces of the State..
The Founding Fathers knew all about the 100% likely abuse of power inherent in those who seek to govern others and therefore wrote into the Constitution every counter to that abuse of power they could think of. The ability to counter the armed might of despots was the very soul of the 2nd Amendment. Were they alive today and the questions of AR-15's or any other weapon equal to those owned by the State were put to them, their mutual replies would be some 18th century phrase akin to "f'ckin' A right we want the citizens to own those!".
I hear folks say that the reason we need new gun laws is that guns were single shot muskets back when the 2nd amendment was written and not anything like we have today.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
The purpose of the second amendment is to ensure that we can "bear arms" and use them to form "well regulated militias" and defend our "free State". I swore a pledge "to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic". Everyone who has served in the military, every officer of the court, every public official, every naturalized citizen, has also sworn the same oath.
In order to do that, we need weapons that are as potent as those that the enemies of freedom possess. We have already lost most of the potency of the second amendment because people have forgotten the true purpose. The enemies of freedom possess fully automatic weapons both carbines and heavy machine guns, artillery, mortars, and RPGs. They also possess explosives such as Claymores, hand grenades, satchel charges, IEDs, etc. Plus tanks, fighter jets, attack helicopters, guided missiles, and attack drones. Someday Americans will need all of those weapons to defend freedom.
I just attended the wedding of my niece, in Kalifornia. While there my other niece said "surely we can take away assault weapons. Nobody needs one of those. Do they?" I was so dumbfounded by her ignorance that I regretfully didn't give a proper response.
The right to self defense, hunting and target shooting are just accessories to the real purpose of the 2nd amendment.
KC
Wind in my hair, Sun on my face, I gazed at the wide open spaces, And I was at home.
Some ships were hijacked that could have avoided it with just a few guns.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
John Browning's father had an early repeater design like no other... he had a bar that slid through the action and it was drilled with a half-dozen or so holes matching the bore. Powder and bullets were seated in the bar and ignited by percussion caps (IIRC on the p caps) placed one at a time.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
But the 2nd Amendment and all early texts clearly state that the purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to allow every man to defend himself, and to allow the citizenry to fight tyranny both from foreign OR domestic sources. As such, military small arms should obviously be covered under the 2nd Amendment - up to and including TRUE assault rifles. Actually I'd say it covers machineguns as well.
I believe that a free law abiding citizen of the USA has the right to own any weapon they want. They need to have any weapon that their enemies have.
Well I would say a weapon that was capable of dispensing more then one round before having to reload but not sure if thats the technically correct definition.
When "they" ask that.... RE repeating/musket, ask em if they still walk or ride horses to work/school.
Life moves on. Keep up with it.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Well I would say a weapon that was capable of dispensing more then one round before having to reload but not sure if thats the technically correct definition.
When "they" ask that.... RE repeating/musket, ask em if they still walk or ride horses to work/school.
Life moves on. Keep up with it.
^^^^^^^^^^
This.
The Govt. has ARs....we have ARs
The 2nd Amendment wasn't just for single shots any more than the 1st amendment was just for speech per se. They didn't have the internet back then, but the 1st amendment still protects me when I say to the world I think the Govt. is mightily phouced up.
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
The 2nd Amendment wasn't just for single shots any more than the 1st amendment was just for speech per se. They didn't have the internet back then, but the 1st amendment still protects me when I say to the world I think the Govt. is mightily phouced up.
The gov't has M4's.
We should have M4's.
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
The 2nd Amendment wasn't just for single shots any more than the 1st amendment was just for speech per se. They didn't have the internet back then, but the 1st amendment still protects me when I say to the world I think the Govt. is mightily phouced up.
The gov't has M4's.
We should have M4's.
I stand corrected, you are right!
And mini-guns too!
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
I think that when the 2nd was written, if some a-hole had killed a bunch of innocent people with a flintlock musket, a bayonet, a tomahawk, rock, fire, knife, hands, etc, etc, etc; they would have hung his sorry ass in short order and not spent months gabbing on the killer's "motivation" or listening to defense motions and appeals.
Well I would say a weapon that was capable of dispensing more then one round before having to reload but not sure if thats the technically correct definition.
When "they" ask that.... RE repeating/musket, ask em if they still walk or ride horses to work/school.
Life moves on. Keep up with it.
And I'm sure their response would be "exactly, we need to keep up with these new weapons by updating our outdated gun laws"
The first practical self contained cartridge was invented around 1845 in France. It was a rimfire CB cap , very low powered. By the civil war 25 years or so later the cartridges had progressed to a slightly larger caliber and other style ignition systems were being developed.Also by the Civil war there were numerous manual repeaters such as the Spencer and even the Henry and 1866 winchester, and the gatling gun was being developed. By the turn of the century there were working machine guns designed. So at the birth of our nation in 1776 it was about 70-80 years before cartridge development came to where practical repeaters were feasible, and within about 120 years machine guns as we know them were being developed.
When was the first repeating rifle or gun made? The reason I ask is I hear folks say that the reason we need new gun laws is that guns were single shot muskets back when the 2nd amendment was written and not anything like we have today.
So the first amendment should only apply to writing done by quill and ink, but not to writing done with a ball point pen because the pen was invented later?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
I don't think you're anywhere as NEAR as green about firearms as you repeatedly make yourself out to be here,...and am once again asking myself,"WTF does this "jaytee" cat REALLY have in mind,....WHY is he asking these really sophomoric questions."
GTC
Last edited by crossfireoops; 06/24/16.
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
I don't think you're anywhere as NEAR as green about firearms as you repeatedly make yourself out to be here,...and am once again asking myself,"WTF does this "jaytee" cat REALLY have in mind,....WHY is he asking these really sophomoric questions."
GTC
Not on this forum, but on other forums with little traffic I have a strong suspicion that administration is trolling. The endless stream of anonymous "sophomoric questions" is suspicious. And look at that member's posts, and it will all threads he started, and every last one of them a common and unlikely softball. Cookie cutter the next guy like that, and again, and again, each with ~ 15 posts.
24HCF, in contrast, has plenty of traffic.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
No "act" to buy crossfire. I'm merely posing this question as I have several friends who dont think we should have AR style weapons. Myself, I've got 3 and hardly ever shoot them but they are in the gun safe. And I do thank everyone for their responses. I knew that there was some type of a repeating weapon like the puckle, just didn't know the name of it. I'm not trolling or phishing, just looking for some good info to throw back at folks when they start in the argument that nobody really needs an AR style rifle, thats all.
I have several friends who dont think we should have AR style weapons.
Well, for starters, you need to find yourself a better class of "friends",....their stink followed you in here.
GTC
Last edited by crossfireoops; 06/24/16.
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
The Kalthoff repeating musket was made in numbers from about the 1650s. It had separate magazines for powder and for balls, and a lever-action mechanism fed a measure of powder and a ball and cocked the action (originally wheel lock, later flintlock), allowing a shot every second or two. Magazine capacity varied: some reputedly held up to 30 shots, but seven or 12 was more common.
There was also the Cookson, a 12 shot repeater from about 1680.
Calhoun, I agree 100%. My interpretation of the 2nd., is that If I wanted/and could afford, I could purchase a fully armed F-14 or whatever!!! Purely for personal protection, if needed. memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
Guess I'd better say thanks so as not to raise crossfires suspicion. I never new of these early versions of repeating weapons. Speaking of F-14's, there used to be some model of fighter jet sitting in a topless building at a farm along I-90 between Elkton and Austin Minnessota.
Do you not understand the flaw in your counterpoint?
When the 2nd was written the rifles used at the time were state of the art.
Dave
Actually Travis, couldn't the argument be made that when the 2nd was written, the state of the art "arms" were primarily in the hands of the citizenry, and not the govt. Being as most gov't arms were smooth bore and the majority of "rifled" guns belonged primarily to private citizens?
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
repeating weapons started with the Paper Patched Loading
No th ey didnt, they started way before that
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
I hear folks say that the reason we need new gun laws is that guns were single shot muskets back when the 2nd amendment was written and not anything like we have today.
The next time you hear that remind the person that the 1st amendment as well as the entire constitution and bill or rights were written with a turkey feather dipped in an inkwell. Maybe we should ban all modern forms of electronic communication since it allows lies to be spread easier and faster.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
Dave its not my counterpoint, I totally agree that the weapons were state of the art. And as far as the point about the constitution being written with a quill and ink, that makes sense but people aren't getting gunned down by ball point pens. I dont think the anti's aren't concerned about technological advances over the past 240 years, until it comes to guns.
Dave its not my counterpoint, I totally agree that the weapons were state of the art. And as far as the point about the constitution being written with a quill and ink, that makes sense but people aren't getting gunned down by ball point pens. I dont think the anti's aren't concerned about technological advances over the past 240 years, until it comes to guns.
So what you're saying is the Founding Fathers did not intend for the 2nd Amendment to keep up with the times, only all of the other Amendments?
So when a bunch of ragheads get on social media and start spewing good stuff about joining ISIS and tell people to attack infidels, that's not 'killing' people?
Here's a hint, I'd say that the majority of terrorist killings begin via media.
Tom Clancy used to live by me. He had a tank. Guess ya gotta be rich and know the right people.
You would be suprised to know the number of tanks and other armored vehicles out there in private hands.
Founder Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison? And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools, Being native burghers of this desert city, Should in their own confines with forked heads Have their round haunches gored."
That is flawed logic on their part because those weapons were state of the art at the time.
The 2nd was not written because the authors felt single shots weren't capable of fighting tyranny.
Dave
Bingo
I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
But the 2nd Amendment and all early texts clearly state that the purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to allow every man to defend himself, and to allow the citizenry to fight tyranny both from foreign OR domestic sources. As such, military small arms should obviously be covered under the 2nd Amendment - up to and including TRUE assault rifles. Actually I'd say it covers machineguns as well.
The 2nd amendment is about political power, not self defense, hunting, or target practice.
When swords had political power, there strict sword control laws in Japan and Rome. With the invention of guns, anyone can own a sword.
For a gun to have political power today, it should be what a US soldier carries today.
In the future when a soldier has a heat sening machine gun flying drone, that is what the 2nd amendment is giving us.
When everyone has a gun on a plane, the plane will fly to where the majority want to go. When everyone in a country is armed, the country will have the government that everyone wants.
Hitler got 30% of the vote, burned down congress, declared himself dictator, and suspended future elections. Meanwhile an unarmed German populace stood and watched.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
Dave its not my counterpoint, I totally agree that the weapons were state of the art. And as far as the point about the constitution being written with a quill and ink, that makes sense but people aren't getting gunned down by ball point pens. I dont think the anti's aren't concerned about technological advances over the past 240 years, until it comes to guns.
So what you're saying is the Founding Fathers did not intend for the 2nd Amendment to keep up with the times, only all of the other Amendments?
So when a bunch of ragheads get on social media and start spewing good stuff about joining ISIS and tell people to attack infidels, that's not 'killing' people?
This isn't my argument or stance, its the stance that friends of mine seem to have taken. I'm totally 100 percent for each and every person who can legally own a firearm to have that choice and to be able to choose the firearm of their choice and to use it. And to your point Steelhead about the ragheads on social media, as they say the pen is mightier then the sword or in this case the keyboard.
Here's a hint, I'd say that the majority of terrorist killings begin via media.
Dave its not my counterpoint, I totally agree that the weapons were state of the art. And as far as the point about the constitution being written with a quill and ink, that makes sense but people aren't getting gunned down by ball point pens. I dont think the anti's aren't concerned about technological advances over the past 240 years, until it comes to guns.
So what you're saying is the Founding Fathers did not intend for the 2nd Amendment to keep up with the times, only all of the other Amendments?
So when a bunch of ragheads get on social media and start spewing good stuff about joining ISIS and tell people to attack infidels, that's not 'killing' people?
This isn't my argument or stance, its the stance that friends of mine seem to have taken. I'm totally 100 percent for each and every person who can legally own a firearm to have that choice and to be able to choose the firearm of their choice and to use it. And to your point Steelhead about the ragheads on social media, as they say the pen is mightier then the sword or in this case the keyboard.
Here's a hint, I'd say that the majority of terrorist killings begin via media.
Here's a hint, THEY AREN'T FRIENDS. The sooner people understand and adopt that, the better we will be.
Tom Clancy used to live by me. He had a tank. Guess ya gotta be rich and know the right people.
You would be suprised to know the number of tanks and other armored vehicles out there in private hands.
actually i know a guy that has several warehouses, nondescript in several locations, that are full of tanks, dukw's, halftracks, etc. the flatfender jeeps are on pegs on the walls like you would hang a rifle.
Their disgusting STINK is all over your writings, and patently offensive to most folk HERE , on this site.
I STILL don't buy into your being as dumb about firearms as you've been trying to purvey,....
I don't like you, and don't trust you.
Don't LOOK for "friends" here,....while on your current bent.
Go hang out at some kissy -feely-huggy philosophical site,...take the effluvium and stench of your "friends" with you,...
You sound to me like a compromiser, ripe to sell out incrementally, and in truth, somewhat LOST as to just where your posting.
GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
You dont like me and you dont trust me. You must be some kind of a genie to tell all of that just through a computer screen. Again, I'm sorry you feel that way. And I'll continue hanging out here, thanks. I still dont understand your thinking that I'm dumb on firearms. Granted I didn't know when the first repeating rifle was made but I venture to guess that over half the folks on here couldn't give a accurate date. Think what you want, I obviously am not going to change your mind. And really, I could care less if you like me or not so dont think I'm gonna lose any sleep over it.
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