Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting How Much Wind Risk Are You Willing To Take?

copse of trees


Thanks for the vocab lesson....

I didn't note if there was sun out or not, but if so, focusing your optics for mirage checks, even though 20mph is to much to tell speed, would at least let me know if i had variable wind.

With something in the back ground you have to assume there is a strong possiblity of wind shift or rollover effect close to a solid object.

Bob,

I had a similar situation about ten years ago. 550 yards nice bull across a deep ravine. Wind blowing like hell. I saw a nice round rock about a 100 yards to the right of the Bull and held right on it. I hit about 4 feet to the right went back to the elk held off and fired. He fell over right there and stayed down. 2 1/2 hours later I got to the elk. Broke his neck. If that shot had been 4 or 5 inches either way would have lost him.
Pretty reckless and lucky, and I more than likely won't do it again but it worked pretty good that time.
Oh the rifle was a .300 Ultra with a 200 gr. SBT.

Lefty

Oh my Gawd, a 300 RUM with 200 gr bullets ?
did you need shoulder surgery and muzzle blast, shell shock trauma counseling after the shot ? Did your left nad switch places with the right from the severe, massive and gargantuan recoil ?
Campfire "experts" deem it way too much gun for humans to fire from shoulder so I'm just wondering if you are physically and mentally sound after actually firing one of those demon cannons

I am NOT physical and mentally sound....but I don't think it has anything to do with the rifle

Lefty C

Lefty that was long enough ago that were was no RUM (unless you were necking down and blowing out 404 Jeffrey brass).

He wa surrounded by oak brush and forest litter...doubt i could have called where the trial shot landed,assuming I had a spotter with me I could trust...which I didn't.

I've killed other bulls not quite s far but the wind was better.

My son and I used to shoot 1000yd BR and we used a .300 ULTRA for our heavy gun. We also shot it in 600yd matches. Put a lot of 200-240 gr bullets down range. Would shoot several sighters in a condition and then go directly go the record target using the hold offs that worked on the sighter. Basically did the same thing on the elk.

Lefty C

The problem there is in another thread..how do you know you were 4 feet off on the sighter? Thats a guess and guessing a 4 foot hold on the animal is a guess.

Its why I made a statement that i assume some posters had a negative take on... I prefer my spotter to refer to something thats at the target, so I can take note of that and use it for my hold off.

Really if the spotter had a mil... in the scope, and i had mil... it would be gravy.

Beyond that I'll take it hit 2 rocks left rather than looked like 12 inches left every time... I can coorelate the 2 rocks in my scope at a glance and transfer it to the animal.

It worked on a caribou sort of... except my spotter knew the tuft of hair i was holding on, and thought he saw the round go in just under the chest hair. So I mentioned a tuft up higher in line with his spine, we agreed and sent it, and it hit his spine. Because my first shot hit the first tuft...

His 12 inches might not have been mine or vice versa had we done otherwise. Of cousre the bull was standing dead with the first shot.... but he and we didn't realize that.

Rost,

It was a kinda reckless shot and I doubt I would do it again. Though with a experienced shooter and spotter it certainly is do able.

With the wind blowing and the distance this particular elk looked up from feeding but wasn't alarmed.

LC

LC, I think we've all btdt that. No flame intended at all.

Just some comments.

IMHO the weekend warriors are still much more dangerous blasting away with bore sighted guns at 100-200 yards as to wounding and not recovering, but OTOH thats not the topic at hand.

Wind, is very tricky. Its much easier if you know how and waht to look for. That starts by direction of wind currents and lay of the land as to where to start looking for the OMG issues.

We never shot 1000 without sighters but I shot a lot of matches from 200-600 where you got no sighters, some of it 10 shots rapid fire at one time, where you didn't make 1 mistake without correcting, you were making a full 10 shot group without knowing.

From that you finally realized standing somewhere and putting a Kestrel up, wasn't the complete answer some days. Some days it was.

I'm admittedly no long range expert by a far stretch, and I can understand a sighter or two at inanimate targets, but using sighters, then hoping the wind is consistent enough to start banging away on a big game animal just baffles me.

If you are a long range shooter then you would understand what you don't.

Thats not a dig either.

You don't just fire, you formulate, look at what you see through your optics, and fire a shot with correction. That confirms or denies your correction.

You can SEE changes through optics. If you see another change, then you don't fire or have to correct and check again possibly.

Most of the targets we strive to hit in long range shooting are at least MOA or smaller.

But if you don't get all that, then you don't shoot IMHO.

If the wind is inconsistent as you note, there are two options, my first choice is to pass on the shot. Good hunters do that regardless the distance.

The second is you dial it in, wait to see something you can recognize condition wise and time it, yes count it out, if it holds for whatever you deem long enough, then you shoot it and or for the killing shot you wait until you see it again.

Wind comes very much in cycles and waves.

There is a LOT more to long shots than most think. Which means you have to do a lot of work to make one.

The ability to use scopes to shoot wiht, we ran irons our whole time in competition, makes it a lot easier to shade the changes a tad too... I know most folks will dial, but as you see a minor shift its easy to shade... national champions shade....

The whole key is knowing your ability. And then having to ignore others comments mostly.

I really still feel strongly that responsible LR shooters wound much less than "normal" shooters do because they understand what can happen.

Truth be told in LR shooting, holding and breaking a shot with a top gun, is not that hard. But understanding windage takes more than a few weekends plinking at rocks. And if you are not out there shooting in bad conditions you'll never understand all this.

I often refer to wind as invisible water or smoke... just sit and watch water and smoke flow... how they react to things in the way... its flat amazing... see how a river can run upstream in areas...

And if you don't understand the separate effects of things like time of flight, spin drift, rotation of the earth, and a simple one, mirage, then don't shoot at game.

Bottom line is always going to be knowledge, if you knew as much about LR shots as you do about hunting the dunes, and those mega muleys that I"ll never have a chance to even see or shoot, you'd be a hell of a LR shooter and know when to and when not to... And thats a superb compliment in case I didn't come across correctly.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff. Since I've seen Hodnett and some of his "students" shoot several times, in wind, I do understand what you said, very well in fact. I just do not have the equipment, time, nor desire to become what I'd consider "good enough" to start launching sighters and such at big game animals. Hogs, coyotes, and other vermin....no problem, and I practice on those myself.

Jeff I have some top shelf competitive shooters as close friends and I sometimes shoot with them. They understand your language.

I am not in the class with you nor them. You guys operate in a different league. When I practice i take my conditions as they come, note effects,and adapt.

In the field sometimes adapting means not taking the chance. I won't pull a trigger on an animal unless I am 90%+ certain of positive results.

My options were exercised decades ago....due to time constraints, work, family I had time to compete.....or hunt. Not both.

I chose to hunt and live within my shooting limitations.

I understand exactly what you were saying.

And once again that makes you top of the shelf IMHO. You know when to and when not to.

You are not the type either to fling one in teh bush at a sandhill buck just hoping to make a hit somewhere and then start following.

Its all the same really.

I'm far from good. I'm just ok at what I do when I desire to do so.

I won't shoot unless I"m 200% sure. If there is ANY doubt, 20 steps or 1000, I won't break the shot. It has to be in my mind a gimme. Just me. Its also why I don't have some big animals. Could care less though, I sleep well at night knowing I didn't wound them to slowly die somewhere else and be lost.

Just me. Again, I think there should be no difference in distances.. just the decision train should be the same.

But then there are things folks that have shot a bit understand, and as such, I was delighted to see conditions a couple of times be such that 800 or further was gravy. Lord knows I"ve had a hard time holding center on something at 200 or less some days in bad conditions. Or even as simply as out of breath...I can tell you, no matter what you think, trying to outrun a caribou herd to a particular point, just doesn't work for my azz

When I started big game hunting at age 57 in 2008, I shot 5 mule does that year. They sold me the tags and I shot the deer.
I learned that I could hit anything at 400 yards, but the 500 yard shots were sketchy.
I was hunting with a guy who had been shooting deer, elk, and antelope for 40 years. He did some yelling at me for missing elk at 620 yards that were walking toward me.
I had a chart, a Leica rangefinder and Kestrel wind meter.
I got 400 yards from a doe late in the day and missed. Then I remembered the wind. The wind was so noisy, the herd did not move. 13 mph. I looked at the chart for 270 230 gr BT 2875 fps.... I needed 13.8" of aiming into the wind.
I aimed at the middle of the animal instead of the front 1/3. The doe took off like a rocket and dropped dead 50 yards away. I had hit the heart instead of the lungs. I had to gut and drag that animal in the dark.
My new strategy was to shoot deer in the morning, when there is little wind, and gutting and dragging is done in daylight.
On days where there is wind in the morning, stay in the cabin and watch TV. The wind makes them herd up and get spooky at distance.
I can get about one mule doe per day on low wind mornings.
I can get a 3x3 mule buck in 3 or 4 days.
I can get a 4x4 mule buck in 5 to 7 days.
I think the big bucks are still nocturnal when I am there. The guys I know that are hunting later in the season getting bigger bucks with thick necks and dragging them out in the snow.

Have you noticed long range hunting posts filled with insults, bragging, and derision? Does this remind you of some guys in high school leaning on the radiator before school starts?

Bob,

Was a time that I shot a lot at long range, and in a lot of different locales and conditions.

For me, the best tool was a log book of evry shot with a comprehensive description of conditions including light, wind, and terrain features.

It's in our nature to remember that we made a great shot at extended range. The log book will preserve your perspective and your memories of what conditions were and of the shots that didn't fly as planned.

The right tools can teach you a lot but serve most of us best as a humbler.

IMHO you always learn more from the misses on a target than the Xs

At least, I researched much harder why an expected X was a 9....

For here in Minnesota the above applies in spades. It doesn't take a whole lot of elevation change (not that there is much here) or gaps in the trees to funnel the wind through. It's way to variable most of the time to risk it when there are so many deer and dawn/dusk the wind will drop to zero almost all the time. I don't see myself ever going past maybe 150 yards without compelling reason even in what appears to be steady wind. 5 mph can easily be 20 mph or more when it gets squeezed through gaps.