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And both is not as uncommon as I had thought it would be.


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Originally Posted by jorgeI

EXACTLY! so if you do it, there HAS to be something other than CHOICE, for if you were normal and obviously you are, you'd find it repugnant and if you don't, there's something wrong with you. We don't think of eating sheit so if you do, there HAS to be something wrong with you. Do some choose it, no doubt, but just like we have psychopaths,we have queers, it's a freak of nature.

Then why do I know so many people who have chosen to go that route late in life? It's not that they were "repressed". Some have told me they wanted to live the "lifestyle" without the sex. Although they seem to have eventually given in to that too.

Porn viewership has been shown to correlate positively with approval of all sexual deviances.


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Originally Posted by BarryC

Then why do I know so many people who have chosen to go that route late in life? It's not that they were "repressed". Some have told me they wanted to live the "lifestyle" without the sex. Although they seem to have eventually given in to that too.

Porn viewership has been shown to correlate positively with approval of all sexual deviances.



That has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read.

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Originally Posted by KMS
Sure are alot of guys defending homosexuality on this board.

Also, ridicule and make light of what the Bible teaches about it all you want, that doesn't change the fact. God didn't make them that way.

And no, I don't need to prove it.


Dats 'cause you can't prove it.

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Originally Posted by 1minute
Homo issues are common in nearly every species. Years back a fellow researcher worked with sheep. A gay ram is not an issue if one has a 1000 animals. In a hobby flock with only a single ram, however, a breeding season could be a complete loss. Gay issues in sheep are at about a 5 to 10% rate.

The research project involved hopping up rams on every conceivable hormone possible in an attempt to kick them into gear using both blood and brain pump injections. Shipped in some really hot ewes from Nevada, and not a single ram came around. It's a wiring issue as opposed to hormones.

Hormones are often used in AI breeding programs to determine when cows are ready for breeding. In those instances a cow is hopped up with male hormones, and she will then exhibit male behavior humping anything that smells or postures correctly. When she singles out an individual, it's hustled into the chute and inseminated.

Have a nephew that's come out, and he's sat literally in tears telling his mom and grandmother that he'd do anything to be straight. He is a very unhappy kid.


Good info, but being "non-interested" in breeding or in chasing the opposite sex does NOT equate with homosexuality - the deliberate act of sexual intercourse with the same sex.


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Originally Posted by Sauer200
Originally Posted by BarryC

Then why do I know so many people who have chosen to go that route late in life? It's not that they were "repressed". Some have told me they wanted to live the "lifestyle" without the sex. Although they seem to have eventually given in to that too.

Porn viewership has been shown to correlate positively with approval of all sexual deviances.



That has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read.

Yep. You should have seen my jaw drop the first time I heard that! Lady with 3 kids, married for 20 years as she was about to run off with her lesbo BFF.


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Originally Posted by BarryC
Originally Posted by Sauer200
Originally Posted by BarryC

Then why do I know so many people who have chosen to go that route late in life? It's not that they were "repressed". Some have told me they wanted to live the "lifestyle" without the sex. Although they seem to have eventually given in to that too.

Porn viewership has been shown to correlate positively with approval of all sexual deviances.



That has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read.

Yep. You should have seen my jaw drop the first time I heard that! Lady with 3 kids, married for 20 years as she was about to run off with her lesbo BFF.


Sheesh. I don't see the point in willingly living with someone and not having sex.

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Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by bellydeep
All I know is, I'll never understand it. And I won't try to. I can't fathom someone preferring a cock over a good lookin woman.


EXACTLY! so if you do it, there HAS to be something other than CHOICE, for if you were normal and obviously you are, you'd find it repugnant and if you don't, there's something wrong with you. We don't think of eating sheit so if you do, there HAS to be something wrong with you. Do some choose it, no doubt, but just like we have psychopaths,we have queers, it's a freak of nature.


David Bowie is one of the most public examples of someone who did just that.


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Originally Posted by Everyday Hunter
Wondering here:
Why is society willing to call homosexuality normal, and a happenstance of birth/genetics, or whatever, and it should be accepted and no effort should be made to change it to restore it to the norm.

And we also say that birth defects such as a cleft palate is a happenstance of birth/genetics, or whatever, and it should be surgically changed to restore it to the norm.

Yes, surgical alteration is done in transgenders, but I'm talking about homosexuals. And besides, transgenders are biologically and genetically still binary -- they are genetically either male or female, despite the claims. And that can't be changed.

In other words, if physical birth defects are recognized and addressed, why are so many people unwilling to accept psychological birth defects? The result is that we take heroic steps to correct physical birth defects, but psychological birth defects are tolerated and encouraged.

Steve.


Come on, that'd not an argument even worth addressing. I'm sure you know better than this.

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Originally Posted by xxclaro
Originally Posted by Everyday Hunter
Wondering here:
Why is society willing to call homosexuality normal, and a happenstance of birth/genetics, or whatever, and it should be accepted and no effort should be made to change it to restore it to the norm.

And we also say that birth defects such as a cleft palate is a happenstance of birth/genetics, or whatever, and it should be surgically changed to restore it to the norm.

Yes, surgical alteration is done in transgenders, but I'm talking about homosexuals. And besides, transgenders are biologically and genetically still binary -- they are genetically either male or female, despite the claims. And that can't be changed.

In other words, if physical birth defects are recognized and addressed, why are so many people unwilling to accept psychological birth defects? The result is that we take heroic steps to correct physical birth defects, but psychological birth defects are tolerated and encouraged.
Steve.

Come on, that'd not an argument even worth addressing. I'm sure you know better than this.

xxclaro, he didn't present an "argument", he asked an interesting question. I'm curious - in your mind why is his question not worth addressing? A lot of money is spent trying to deal with psychological defects, including some congenital. I could be wrong, but this looks like you are trying to put him down and dodging a seemingly cogent question. What is your explanation?


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Originally Posted by BarryC
Originally Posted by antlers

Did He change His mind and now condone adultery...? Did He change His mind and now condone stubborn and rebellious sons...?

Interesting you should point those out because they are still serious sins and I think they are recognized as such.
One explanation for the wide support for homosexual rights is the predominance of sexual sins in general - adultery, fornication, etc. The guilt of those involved forces them to feel like they must legitimize anything.

As many as 65 percent of men and 55 percent of women will have an extramarital affair by the time they are 40, according to the Journal of Psychology and Christianity. A Christianity Today survey found that 23 percent of the 300 pastors who responded admitted to sexually inappropriate behavior with someone other than their wives while in the ministry. But hardly any of the people who loudly condemn homosexuality for 'Biblical' reasons seem to have any problem with adultery...which is just as bad of a sexual sin as homosexuality is according to the Bible that they thump so vigorously. And adultery is MUCH more prevalent than homosexuality is. These folks that claim to be against homosexuality for 'Biblical' reasons sure as heck don't voice their opposition to adultery in a comparative manner. Not even close.


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Antlers, you make some good points there. I am not smart enough to know if they are equally bad behavior, but one aspect in your post is that adultery and homosexual acts are linked as matters of choice.


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I appreciate the kind words. The two 'Biblical' sins mentioned above are 'linked' in that they were BOTH punishable by death in the Mosaic Law, and they are BOTH referred to as sexual sins in some of the writings of the New Testament. Some people choose to believe that homosexuality is a 'chosen' behavior, while others believe that it is a congenital anomaly.


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Originally Posted by antlers
I appreciate the kind words. The two 'Biblical' sins mentioned above are 'linked' in that they were BOTH punishable by death in the Mosaic Law, and they are BOTH referred to as sexual sins in some of the writings of the New Testament. Some people choose to believe that homosexuality is a 'chosen' behavior, while others believe that it is a congenital anomaly.


Why do we presume it's an either/or situation?

How and to what extent does the biological affect the psychological?

At what point do the affects of the biological on the psychological made it no longer a "choice"?


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by antlers
I appreciate the kind words. The two 'Biblical' sins mentioned above are 'linked' in that they were BOTH punishable by death in the Mosaic Law, and they are BOTH referred to as sexual sins in some of the writings of the New Testament. Some people choose to believe that homosexuality is a 'chosen' behavior, while others believe that it is a congenital anomaly.

An "anomaly" through birth is one thing, and it very well may apply to the proclivities of a person. Regardless of laws or stated values, all persons have freedom to choose what they actually will DO sexually. When, where, with whom, etc.

So - like adultery, the choice to commit a homosexual act with another person is exactly that - a decision, a choice - and the outcomes are the responsibility of the one deciding to commit the act. Your post shows that both behaviors are inextricably linked in that manner.


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Originally Posted by CCCC
Originally Posted by xxclaro
Originally Posted by Everyday Hunter
Wondering here:
Why is society willing to call homosexuality normal, and a happenstance of birth/genetics, or whatever, and it should be accepted and no effort should be made to change it to restore it to the norm.

And we also say that birth defects such as a cleft palate is a happenstance of birth/genetics, or whatever, and it should be surgically changed to restore it to the norm.

Yes, surgical alteration is done in transgenders, but I'm talking about homosexuals. And besides, transgenders are biologically and genetically still binary -- they are genetically either male or female, despite the claims. And that can't be changed.

In other words, if physical birth defects are recognized and addressed, why are so many people unwilling to accept psychological birth defects? The result is that we take heroic steps to correct physical birth defects, but psychological birth defects are tolerated and encouraged.
Steve.

Come on, that'd not an argument even worth addressing. I'm sure you know better than this.

xxclaro, he didn't present an "argument", he asked an interesting question. I'm curious - in your mind why is his question not worth addressing? A lot of money is spent trying to deal with psychological defects, including some congenital. I could be wrong, but this looks like you are trying to put him down and dodging a seemingly cogent question. What is your explanation?


Ok. Physical birth defects such as cleft palate are obvious at birth and will cause problems for the person as they grow older. Easiest just to fix them right away. You can't tell if a baby is gay. If a person wants to take action to stop being gay, that's fine and I don't think anyone will stop them but are you going to try to force gays to undergo some sort of straightening therapy against their will? We do recognize psychological defects in people, and if they pose a threat to others we do try to fix them. You can be as messed up as you want as long as your not a threat to someone else though. It was just a ridiculous comparison,imo.

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Regardless of how people (especially those who profess to be Jesus followers) feel about this issue, the fact is that God could not love us more. Nothing we could ever do will cause Him to love us less. And the corollary is this...every person that you're ever eyeball to eyeball with, God could not love them more, and there's nothing they could ever do to cause God to love them less either.


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Originally Posted by antlers
Regardless of how people (especially those who profess to be Jesus followers) feel about this issue, the fact is that God could not love us more. Nothing we could ever do will cause Him to love us less. And the corollary is this...every person that you're ever eyeball to eyeball with, God could not love them more, and there's nothing they could ever do to cause God to love them less either.


So that whole Hell thing....God doesn't really love the people he sends there less?


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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When you open the New Testament and ask the question, "What does it look like to be a follower of Jesus...?", it's crystal clear. If you don't 'get' anything else, here's the thing that should describe you, here's the thing that should characterize you 'more than anything else', here's what He said to His closest followers before he left the earth - "By *this* everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

It's not the gold cross hangin' on your neck, it's not goin' to church on Sunday morning, it's not your church bumper sticker, it's not what kind of family you were born into or raised in, it's not that you were baptized, it's not your self-professed 'Christianity', it's not the disdain that you have for certain people, and it's certainly not policing other people's behavior.

When people used the words of God to hurt people bearing the image of God, Jesus was quick to remind them that they were on the wrong side of God. Everybody is somebody that God loves. Everybody is somebody for whom Jesus died.


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