Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Need advice on bang flops

That sure is a big-eared bug....

I've had a few bang flops that I would have preferred them to run off a little and be dead when I got there. They can bang flop on the spot, but that doesn't always mean you don't have to finish it.

Even with the head almost totally gone, the organs still need time to die....FWIW.

I've shot a few low shoulder that went straight down, but were not giving it up all that easy. I waited a little bit on one and said that won't happen again.

The few I've shot in the head, it was over when I got there.

^^^This guy knows how it works^^^

Big game cartridges are immaterial. What bullets fired from them destroy is. Nothing living remains in that condition without topside blood flow. Destroy blood pumping and/or blood oxygenating equipment of any big game animal, and it will die. Biology, not cartridges, is controlling.

The new world record Yukon moose, the largest deer species in North America, was killed a couple years ago with a .303 British.

I shoot a 270 WSM (usually 140 gr Accubonds) and I've had deer run a surprisingly long ways from good chest cavity shots even when they were literally gushing blood. I've also had bang flops from shots that I wouldn't have expected to result in one such as the liver or lungs just ahead of the diaphragm. Most often they do a little death dash and tip over but some deer show more will to survive than others - seemingly with no explanation.

I lost a buck this past season that I hit twice from about 60 yds away. First shot appeared to be a good chest hit just behind the front shoulder and the second was an attempted anchor shot that i know was too far back as he dashed into the brush. My buddy jumped the buck about 150 yds away from where he was initially hit but incredibly he'd left his gun behind and the buck stumbled off. He had left a great amount of lung blood in the area he was jumped from but the trail ran out and even with a tracking dog we never did locate him after many hours of trying.

A good chest hit results in a recovered deer in a very high percentage of occasions but once in while there is an outlier that is hard to explain.

With shots to soft vitals, they die from blood loss and oxygen depletion. This can take a few seconds and a frightened deer can cover 50--200 yards (whatever) in that time,although I can't recall many that made it that far.

Bow hunters seem tuned into this and expect it but rifle hunters are a weird bunch expecting deer to be electrocuted and dispatched on the spot, citing formulas for energy and effects of tiny bullet shards from blow up designs,seemingly never considering that bullets behave differently at 500 yards than at 50.

My guess is the precise shot works better than a magic bullet.

I agree!

Well, everyone wants to dance around and ignore the real issue. He bought a 270 WSSM as a subconscious act of 'coming out'.

Tell him to take out the front running gears and they will fold.

I used to hunt with my late wife's family and they always bitched if the deer ran after the shot. They felt like the deer was suffering.
I don't hunt with them anymore, Thank God.
When I first bought this place I took a shot at a big buck quartering away and I was surprised how far he went. I was using a 200 grain Hornady and actually found the bullet which is very rare for the 35 Whelen. My favorite round now is the 375 H&H loaded to 2,200 fps with a Hornady 220 gr. Or Sierra 200 gr flat nose.
They drop pretty fast.
This year I am using the 35 Whelen with 250 gr.

The .375 is an amazingly versatile cartridge, and the bullet range options are incredible. There was an older fellow I used to hunt with that bought a pre-64 Winchester M70 in .375H&H when he got back from 'Nam. He wanted a .30-06 and couldn't find one, but got a deal on the .375. That was the only centerfire rifle he ever owned, and he loaded everything for it; shot everything from crows and groundhogs on up to bear with it. Those same FNs you're talking about at max speed will fling goo with a groundhog like a hot .22 will with prairie dogs. Just make sure that you don't use one loaded like that on deer - unless you're ready for a LOT of meat loss.

When I hunted N. central WI, there was a guy that went in on the same forest rd as us that used the .375. It's all he used as well. Bought it as a kid to hunt Alaska and figured if it was fine there, it was fine for WI. We always knew when he shot.

As far as bang-flops. I've had plenty. But when they drop, you gotta watch em.

I've had two get up that I was almost sure never would. I'd rather have it go a few yards after the shot. Hell, even if they make a few hops, they'll still go 20 yards or so.

The last buck I shot, a 200+ pound 8pt, was shot perfectly though the heart. I was using a 145gr speer, in a 7x57mm. He did the mule kick, heart shot deal and crashed for about 5 seconds. He made it about 30 yards with literally no heart, and a busted offside leg.

Spot on. YOu sure better watch bang flops, I try to for as long as I can.... you just never know.

Anecdotes...

Older gentleman here, shot all his deer in the flank with a 220 swift. Did the gutless cleaning on them. Supposedly never had a one do anything but drop.

IMHO if I had to body shoot and demanded drt, I'd be running as much velocity as i could.

But even running 257 wtby and 100s... I've had deer make it 50-60 yards, and buddy had a small doe, make it almost 200 steps. Lung/top of heart shots. OTOH most of them including my largest buck to date, generally go about 15 steps.

OTOH the 300 whisper subsonic, they might go on average 50 steps... not a big deal.

As to calibers and killing, shot placement is alwyas it. I"ve taken out a lot of pigs in my days. Last winter I took out quite a few over 200 pounds which is more than our average buck weight wise. Probably 30 percent of those or so were killed with sub sonic 22lr hps... the others were killed with the 300 whisper. Granted quite a few where head shots but not all...between the 2 rounds, never saw one go more than about 75 yards, and that was one with the whisper, the 22, generally about 30 steps or so if lung shot.

What I would like to know is how far are these deer running on your friend. This may just be a matter of expectation. The other questions I would have would be:
1) The range at which he was shooting these deer
2) Where he was aiming.
3) Flinch

Most of my deer over the past decade have been taken with either a 30-06 or 35 Whelen from inside 165 yards. Almost all had the tops of their hearts blown off and both lungs pulped. A good number drop on the spot. However, a sizeable number run a bit. I would say that with rare exception, I can stand in the tracks of the deer where I shot it, and see where it went down. It might be 10 yards. It might be 60. I don't see this as a problem.

One thing I noticed with my sons early on was their tendency to subconsciously move their aim towards the center of mass instead of concentrating on the chest. They would swear they'd sent the round towards the boiler room, but they were hitting behind the diaphragm. This is a matter of confidence. The cure was simply getting enough deer under their belts.

I'd also be looking at the 3-dimensional aspect of shot placement. I like taking off the top of the heart, but if the angle is wrong, I might only hit one lung. Now I have a runner on my hands and it might be lost. If your friend is just picking a point on the hide and not considering how the bullet will travel, that will give him the sort of trouble he's having.

I've had the most bang flops out of fast rounds shooting fragile bullets, a 7mm rem mag shooting 140 ballistic tips was my go to for a long time. They rarely moved out of their hoof prints with that one. I quit using it when I had a couple of blow ups that were kind of ugly. I still recovered the deer but it was clear the bullet was overtasked when hitting bone so I switched to tougher bullets. Now I aim for the high shoulder and hope for the best. I get about 50% bang flops now and just track the rest, they usually don't go far. I've shot 15-20 deer with the 35 whelen due to Mississippi's crazy primitive weapons season where they're legal. I've only had a couple of instant kills with it. Tough bullets moving slowly don't impress them like a fast, lightly constructed bullet.

Bob's comments about low light hunting are interesting, it shows the difference between hunting in the north and west vs. the south. If I didn't shoot deer in low light I wouldn't shoot many deer, and almost certainly wouldn't shoot any quality bucks. I'd prefer to shoot them in broad daylight but they set the schedule, not me. Same thing with shooting them next to thickets, I'd rather have them in the middle of an open field but they don't cooperate on that one either, it does little good to hunt where the deer aren't. So I'm left shooting them at last light next to a thicket, which is where they immediately head if I don't get one of the aforementioned bang flops. I don't wait until morning to recover them, a good flashlight and headlamp are always in my pack and blood trailing at night with a good light isn't any big deal if the shot is good. It's rare I carry a deer out of the woods in daylight, that's just the way it works in the deep south.

Doesn't really matter much what you shoot, just about any gun will produce bang-flops if you hit the animal right.

On my last cow elk hunt with the Kimber 338fed, I shot a cow in the base of the neck and she went down so fast I didn't see her drop. I was just about to shoot again when my buddy yelled she's down, don't shoot! On a deer hunt, a hunter in our group jump a nice buck in some trees. He fired and the woods exploded with deer. He fired at the buck again and saw it go down. When he walked over he had three dead deer. Two bucks and a doe. I know he only fired twice, cause I heard him shoot. Fortunately there was an extra tag in the group, but we had to smuggle the doe out.

Got to be careful with bang-flops.