Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters why reduced/downloaded rifle cartridges frown upon?

I have yet to see a load that would shoot well at long range, that wouldnt shoot at shorter ranges as well.

Thank you to all who have replied. You given much food for thought.

I had a couple of thoughts regarding reduce loads when I started this thread.

For my 308Win, I would find a reduced load and stay with using it. I'd use either 125 nosler B-tip or hornady 130gr SP and keeping it around 2800fps. Then try to match correspond Barnes 130gr TTSX to those b-tips. This should keep recoil around 243win levels but with benefit of the 30-cal. was my thought process. Right or Wrong? Or is this too much effort and I should just get 243win?



In regards to 223rem. It's just a very versatile round, IMHO. Called Hodgdon and found some subsonic load data for it that would allow me to duplicate a 22lr. So via hand loading, it can serve as 22lr, standard 223rem duties, and with premium bullets serve as light duty deer round!


I freely admit, that my newness to hand loading has made me over enthusiastic here, but hand loading has just open so many doors that weren't considered possible being restricted to factory ammo.

Thank you for indulging a newbie hand loader, who's gone a little wild on all the new possibilities that have been opened to me.



Leo

Scroll down to Varmint forum and check out The Rimfire Alternative thread...

There was a good article in the Hodgdon annual a few years back featuring reduced loads with various X bullets in a number of cartridges. The author believed they were more effective than lighter rounds like the .243. He used mostly H4895, which is safe down to about 60% of full charge loads. Hodgdon publishes a data sheet for reduced loads on its website.

Leo,

2800 fps with a 125-130 grain bullet isn't going to quite get your .308 down to .243 recoil levels. I know this partly because a few years ago Eileen started getting headaches at recoil levels much higher than a .243 with a 100-grain bullet. When we tried to download her .308 (which she used to use with full-power 150-grain load) with 130-grain TSX's, even 2700 fps wasn't mild enough. Eventually we put a muzzle brake on the .308, and now she can shoot it with 130 TSX's at 2800 without getting headaches.

However, it might be close enough for your purposes. If not, in a .308 110's at 2800 are closer to .243 recoil.

Everybody needs a 223 that shoots 75 Amax. It flys the same as a 30-06 with 165 AB's and I know which I'd rather shoot 50 rounds of in an afternoon. Save the heavy stuff for hunting, play with the 223 while improving your wind skills at the same time.

Just a little different perspective.

I've started each of my kids on "the one" rifle that they will use for all their hunting until they buy their own (if ever). For that purpose, reduced loads have been a godsend.

Really reduced loads are just plain FUN to practice with as well.

I've had good luck with H4895 for reduced loads. I was always of the opinion that you needed full cases to get decent accuracy and consistent ignition, but H4895 proved me wrong!

Hodgdon H4895 Reduced Loads

This is the correct answer. Why take a bike when you can drive? Why cook when you can buy take out?

Um, cause you feel like it?

I wouldn't look to others for an explanation of why to reduce loads. Do it because it's fun. You're curious. You want to match the bullet to the optimum velocity. Economy. You just feel like it.

Follow the loads in a manual to reduce velocity, or other reliable source.

SEE was observed years ago, and known to be dangerous, so use published data using medium or fast burning powders for your reduced loads.

If you're lucky, the powder or bullet companies can sometimes be coaxed into giving free advice.

For my 308Win, I would find a reduced load and stay with using it. I'd use either 125 nosler B-tip or hornady 130gr SP and keeping it around 2800fps. Then try to match correspond Barnes 130gr TTSX to those b-tips. This should keep recoil around 243win levels but with benefit of the 30-cal. was my thought process. Right or Wrong? Or is this too much effort and I should just get 243win
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I like your thinking. As has been stated, a 125 at 2800 will recoil more than a .243 but I doubt the difference would be significant. If it is and you don't want the recoil, load it down a little lower. My son shot his first deer, a small doe, with a 120 Sierra from a 7-08 at a muzzle velocity of 2300 fps. She went about 20 yards and started wobbling before tipping over dead so I'm confident your 125 or 130 from a .308 at 2800 or so work very well. Good luck with whatever you decide upon.

There is still a place for reduced loads and 60% loads. A 458 Win. at 45/70 or even Colt velocities is one.

One reason they are not as popular as they once were is in addition to all the previous reasons fewer people hunt for the pot like in times past. You just don't pot a grouse when you have Elk near unless you are really in a wilderness area.

Used to load down 120 gr. 270 bullets to about 2500 fps. for a Turkey load which worked well. But I quit using them when I accidentally let one go on a deer, it worked fine but I didn't want to push my luck. Colonel Whelen accidentally fired an almost squib load at a Grizzly, not good.

What all of you fellows are doing does not meet MY needs and doesn't fit MY situation and I don't understand why anyone would do anything that isn't a perfect fit for ME. So you all need to run your lives according to whatever is best for ME.

There. Case closed.

Jim,
Have you ever considered running for public office?

The lightest rifle I own is a 375 H&H Magnum.
I have never fired it with factory ammo and maybe never will.

Loaded to 2200 fps with a flat nose 200 gr Sierra or a 220 gr Hornady it makes a very deadly deer rifle and I enjoy using it a lot.

I thought about public office but I'm a lousy liar, I'd never make it...

During this recent shortage H4350 was hard to come by, and 42 to 46 grains of IMR4895 goes further than 60+ grains of H4350. so I use a lot of IMR4895 in reduced loads across multiple rifles - 30-06, .308, .270, 270 WSM etc. Plus I don't want to firewall my older mil surps, one of them being 101 years old, so a middlin' does of IMR4895 works really well to keep them shooting.

The way I see it, this is a hobby. Do whatever floats your boat, and if the other fellow doesn't like it, that's his problem. I do note that out of everyone I've ever met who thinks they have some right to say what I or anyone else should do, exactly 100% of them take great umbrage to the thought that they should do things the way I tell them to. Humanity is interesting that way.

As long as you're not putting ice in sipping whiskey or cooking steaks past medium rare we'll be OK.

Yes, sir!

Actually, I think we see eye to eye on that.

Shooting really isn't as complicated as people try to make it.

The real answer to the question is "Because people like to frown a lot."

If you want less recoil in a rifle, remember to use stick powders and not ball. Those large muzzle flashes you get with ball powders generate a lot of extra recoil even with lighter loads. If you have to use ball powder, use a flash suppressor or muzzle break.

This ^^^^^^

Personally, have all of the components on hand to load some .30-30 cartridges for a slightly built 10 year old nephew who wants to use his great-grandfather's lever rifle to take his first deer this fall. First order of business will be to spin up an accurate, reduced recoil, practice load to get him acclimated to the rifle. Then an accurate, middle of the road, hunting round. He is already deadly on the small end of pop cans out past 30 yards with a .22.

He is a suburban "concrete kid" growing up in a non-shooting / non-hunting family. Want to ensure that his transition to centerfire rifle does not scare him off of shooting or hunting.