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Shrapnel....has probably hit more elk with his truck....than the gooney birds recommending the 6.5 for elk at 600 yards!


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Has anyone brought up how target bullets won't work on elk yet? I wanna make sure we cover everything.

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Originally Posted by starsky
Has anyone brought up how target bullets won't work on elk yet? I wanna make sure we cover everything.


Also, "tactical" scopes don't belong on hunting rifles.

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Along this same subject, a guy at work was asking me which 308 he should get for long range shooting. He wants the 308 for the abundance of match factory ammo and cheap practice ammo. He doesn’t reload and has settled on the 308.
He was asking about the Sako A7 Roughtech range http://www.sako.fi/rifles/sako-a7/a7-roughtech-range
An 11 twist, 26 inch barrel. I know nothing about the A7s other than they have some plastic parts, but are they any good?


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My bud from work asked me same question a couple months ago. He also does not reload. I told him I liked the Rem 700 5R, but that the 6.5 Creedmoor was the ideal cartridge for him over the 308.....

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No flies on the 7-08 either in the same configuration plus plenty of factory fodder to choose from.


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Just checked and saw that there are a few more 260 Rem loads out there nowadays.

Remmy should come out with a 700 5R in 260 with a couple new loadings to boot. If they made said rifle the decision would have been quick and painless. Their Premier Match line is a goatfuck and not a 260 load to be had. They have done their best to kill the 260 from the start.

He is talking 700 5R in 308 again. I just can't see going 308 over a 6.5, and I shoot 2 308s fairly frequently.

I will prolly talk him into a 10X42 SWFA SS to go on his rig. Once he makes up his damn mind.....

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Boxer, apples/oranges, bad numbers on 300wm. You lose!

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'3rd,

Most have ZERO fhuqking inkling as to that which is both possible and reliably repeatable,as per whim. I often gun 900yd steel with a goodly smattering of different rifles,running the gamut in both bore size and case capacities,but can shoot CBS cleans upon same with better than a dozen rifles atta whack,as per my whim,in decent conditions(bolts,lever,selfshuckers). Matters not to me,if I dope an erector or slip a reticle to arrange that POA/POI correlation. Why folks fixate headstamps so much,at the total disregard for twist/throat/COAL harmony in relation to that which matters MOST and dat's simply boolits,is one of Life's MANY constants. With today's 60+ mph gusts,there's a hurdle or two tossed in the fray...but how "difficult" is it to walk away from a 900yd opportunity when it's blowin' 60mph+?!? Easy for me,though I cain't speak for others.

There's ALOTTA folks slummin' schit Riggin',that are rollin' dice on farrrrrrrrrrrrr lower percentage odds at 100yds,due tackle and "intellect". Than a good guy with good riggin' in good conditions at the 500+ yard line. Hell...I've very often seen me shoot Chickum Eggs and Claybirds at distances greater than that. Hint.

Never been tough to cypher who shoots and who don't,which is prolly a handy "tidbit" to factor in extrapolation.(grin)

I never have,nor would I ever encourage someone to shoot past their abilities,understanding or Riggin'. Have seen me be a proponent however,of obscene round count and giving rifles,boolits,mounting systems and glass more than a casual thunk. Spent primers remain THE Supreme Tutorial,but a quickaloo check for honest folks,is to simply go hasty MPAJ on an empty chamber and break the trigger at the distance of enthrallment. With good dope,good riggin' and a fhuqking clue...live rounds will go to the same place. If you can't hold it on an empty chamber,you sure as fhuqk won't be able to with a live round either. Pass the attempt and get set up better BFD. Hint.

Elk die easier than lotsa thangs and happen to have big vitals. Dealin' death,is hardly "daunting" there.

If folks ACTUALLY shot as "much" as they "think" they do and "knew" as much as they "think" they do...this mind numbing STUPIDITY wouldn't arise with such alarming regularity.

It ain't the Indian,as much as the arrow...but beware the BEST Indian with the BEST arrows. Seen it.

Hint...................(grin)















Dre',

I reckon 600yds is a fixture due to some formal Target Disciplines that share a like engagement distance,as well as BDC/CDS Bullschit,amonst other Myths,Wivestales and outright Delusions.

With 7 seconds of Instruction and assumin' a gent with a clue,it's impossible to miss a milk jug at the 600yd line,in anything nearin' "fair" atmospheric conditions. Have handed off my wares 100's of times,to arrange similar and the only one who weren't "surprised",was me. There's method to the madness. hint.(grin)

The ONLY way to get good in less than ideal conditions,is to purposely chase same...just TO shoot in it. That glaring obvious escapes all. Hint.

Stupid Fhuqkers,reliably do STUPID schit and you can count upon the sanctity of that hilarity bein' a CONSTANT. Note how often BOOBS cite a headstamp,but never a particular boolit and when they do attempt projectile selection,just how badly it's fhuqking BOTCHED. Reread this very Thread from the start and note the HILARITY. Not so "surprisingly",you'll note how deep you hadta' dig,before a specific projectile was even cited. That poignant profundity is more than a "little" telling and DUMB Fhuqks can only talk in veddy veddy broad generalizations. Hint.

Not all chamberings are "equal" in all rifles. Hint.

Why?!? Twist/throat/COAL run the gamut in Make to Make. A rifle can be no better than the BEST boolit it will align and them differences are welllllllll beyond STARK. Hint.

Few have an understanding of BC and it's inherent virtue(s),though everyone "thinks" they do...which is funnier than fhuqk! Take the above DUMB Fhuqk who's stumped with plainly cited Facts and Physics. The itty-bitty Creed and 143ELD stomps the 300Winny 180NPT at the 600yd line. She couldn't handle the notion of the .697BC 147ELD at 2700fps chambered same.(grin)

[Linked Image]

Let alone a S/A 260AI squirtin' same at 2900fps ala binderless DBM and a 6x MQ. The Creed' will just "happen" to arrange an inordinate amount of Greatness,due nothing less than well executed mechanical design,where Theory pales to Application. It sounds good,but is quite a bit better than it sounds. Nice place to be as well,in that the projectiles that grant same,were constructed to have the mettle requisite to harness them impacts. Win/win/win.

Coming full circle,you've VERY obviously have not tasted in the firsthand,what a GOOD rifle will do ala Hasty MPAJ. I simply do it daily. Hint.

Bless your heart.

Laughing!..................















Sharpsman,

The only thing you "shoot" is your mouth and Imagination. Congratulations.

Now as Factory Creed' Fodder goes and talkin' a Milford atmosphere in current conditions with a 250yd zero,the 147ELD 2700fps Factory Wrap do thusly at the 600yd line:

Drops 65"(3 Mils),drifts 20.4" in 10mph full value(.9 Mil),impacts at 1964fps and has 1260ft lbs of "energy".

As compared to say a 300Wby and 150NPT at 3400fps,zero'd same in like atmosphere and identical scope height(1.75").

The "mighty" 300Roy drops a bit less at 50.5"(2.3 Mils),drifts much more at 30"(1.4 Mils),happens to arrive the scene at IDENTICAL impact velocity of 1964fps with the whole extry 3grs of mass givin' it a microscopic "energy" edge. Hint.

Ain't it a hoot,when your inherent DUMBfhuqktitude is set on display?!? If ONLY you could savvy,just how amazingly fhuqking STUPID you are.

Bless your heart.

Laughing!................















starsky,

The gals are doing GOOD,to get a fhuqking box of boolits even opened up,if the could afford one.(grin)

Bless their hearts.

Laughing!..............















Tuner,

Don't forget how "top heavy" that glass will make 'em too.(grin)

Bless their hearts.

Laughing!...............















Kodiak',

The FAST track to getting fhuqking GOOD with a rifle,is a killer 22LR and to flog upon it to the absolute mercy of a good erector's travel(500yds++ anyhow). A brick of ammo through that,will learn a gent farrrrrr more about atmospheric influences,than whistlin' through a truckload of Mart-Mart Tree Oh Not So Great Fodder. Hint.

Anschutz 54 jingle,is the best Learnin' Loot a gent will ever spend.

[Linked Image]

There's nothin' redeeming in the Sako cited and DBM favors are only granted,when staying an AICS footprint. Proprietary schit will paint a guy in a corner and hose COAL latitude mightily. Sako screws the Pooch there,just like most others. Hint.

A Tree Oh Not So Great is always gonna need more COAL and binderless AM's,Alpha's or the like,are the fast track to said sanctity.

260 hull at S/A 700 OEM confines(2.815") with a 147 ELD extrapolation and a Creed' case illustrating the inherent .100"+ COAL advantage it bolsters in a like sized box. AICS OEM bindered mag below and to the left,AM binderless to the right. 2.975" a breeze in the AM.

[Linked Image]

The Creed' CRUSHES all things 308...despite it being a smaller case. Why? It slings a vastly superior boolit. 'Course it'll recoil less and not be as noisy either. Hint.

Boolits matter more than headstamps................(grin)

















'fish,

I shot a 7-08 once.(grin)

I'm unaware of a legit Factory LR Load and so is everyone else. Hint.

For just a leetle conversation,in regards to boolits firstly and headstamps secondly. In regards to the boolits setting alone and L-R: .224" 75'Max,.243" 105 Hornie HPBT,.264" 147ELD and .284" 162'Max. For conversation,the Creed' will shoot the 147 at the same speed a like length 7-08 will the 162...but the 147 has a .697BC instead of a .625BC. The 7-08 cain't hang. Why? Boolits. Hint.

[Linked Image]

I really like the 162'Max at 2850fps in my 7-08AI,but my 260AI will grant 2900fps with the 147ELD and it's simply a phenom.

Binderless AICS footprint mags bein' a given,in both. hint.

[Linked Image]

308 uppermost,7-08AI lower MOA/MOA Fixed Fhuqkers a given,inclination tossed copiously and a Creed' will simply thrash the pair. Binderless AICS footprint AM's a given.

[Linked Image]

'Tis a leetle bit intellesting,to gun all side by each.

Hell...I've seen me do it....................(grin)















'muchgun,

260 Factory Fodder sucks heavy ass,scratch that notion. They've a couple 5R-esque S/S 260 offerings that are 8",but they are badly COAL hosed and the stocks suck ass. If a guy HAD to suffer one,inletting it for AICS DBM is a breeze and that near 3" latitude will pay beeg dividends.

I've got wayyyyyyyy too many Tree Oh Not So Greats,though noone hates said chambering more than I. As a MBR in say HK91,it's doable and I of course suffered M1A1's,Krunchentickers and other Self Shuckers of the ilk,amongst Pumps,Levers and of course bolt guns too. Purty embarrassin' really.(grin)

I'd like to see Ronnie Barrett do a well throated 260 1-8" with the 3" box in S/S,for guys who actually shoot. A 147ELD smooch at 2.925" would be Skookum and a Giant Killer to boot.

As Fixed Fhuqkers go,the 10x MQ is a tough bitch to whoop on a Giggles Rifle. Much prefer it to MOA/MOA,though in fairness the MOA/MOA windshield do grant a silver CH more of latitude,than the 10 Mil MQ windshield. 'Horn ring the bitch and reap all the goody.

Once you see a .700 BC slice atmospherics with no recoil...all else fhuqking pales...............(grin)















ScooterDUMB,

My my my...you CLUELESS Fhuqk,I enjoy how Facts and Physics don't steal the "thunder" from the Fluff of your Imagination and it's Pretend. Congratulations?!?

Be SURE to swing for the fence and find me "mistaken",as you talk out your ass about the things you've never seen,never will do and never understand.

I cain't wait. Hint.

Bless your heart.

Laughing!..................


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Not that it changes the outcome of .697/2750 vs .670/2750, but have you played with the 162 ELD yet? I'll be curious to see how the .284 180 ELD plays out. Seems the 162 ELD has a decent bump up from .625...

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I've not shot either of the new NotSo Poly Tipped Non-A-Max 162's...and gotta melt tips off a couple/few thousand more 162 A-Max,before I "fret" that transition.(grin)

Prolly got a trio of Montucky 7 Whizzum's in which they'd shine in,if only for starters,but would prolly haveta slum 'em in 7-08 and 7-08AI too,in the interest of R&D. A .670BC at 3100fps+,would slip conditions rather nicely and be tough not to love.

First (3) to the left are 7 Whizzum's. The 162ELD at 3100fps would get the MQ windshield to the 1350yd line on the nose and full value 10mph wind at the 2000yd line is a paltry 3.9 Mils and only 22.4 Mils on the erector. Would haveta peel the Reupold MK4 M1 10x MilDot off and go 10x MQ,just to begin to do it justice. 1810fps of impact velocity at the 1000yd line,prolly don't suck and every (1) mph of full value wind there,is less than a scant 5.5" nudge. Not a bad place to be.(grin)

[Linked Image]

Be curious to see if they'd stabilize in a 22" SALAMI 7-08 1-10" Liljee spout,like the A-Max do. Might could be intellesting,though I reckon I might even have some in greater RPM too,if only as a control measure.

[Linked Image]

The 180 ELD in a 700 based 280 or 280AI would likely shine nicely,as I'd want some more CC's,to drive the mass increase...if in fact the aero form is there to warrant the move. Same goes the 700 based 7mmRemMag blueprint,due like mannerisms,in relation to case length and COAL latitude.

Weather really simmered down today,as it had been gustin' 80mph+. Them Chinook rains beautified the roads and made gettin' around a pleasure. Purty nice day for a Cast & Blast and we got some licks in. Time to fire up a skillet and cook some backstrap. I schlepped The Baby BR all day and Sister cain't seem to get out of KHorn Mode.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Boolits prolly do matter,after all...no matter what The Paper Hat Brigade "thinks". Laughing!

35gr V-Max from Christmas Morning.

[Linked Image]

Never been tough to cypher who shoots and who don't.(grin)

Hint...................


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That's where I'm at, too. Still got a shelf full of 162 AM's to whistle through before I try the .284 ELD offerings. I'm thinking 180's in 50gr+ capacity chamberings to compare and do some R&D beside the 195 Berg's, if they warrant it. Getting 2900 in my 7WSM's with the 195, and should see 3000+ with the 180's.

A guy could probably get 2600-2650 from a 7-08 with the 180's. I'm seeing 2500-2550 with the 195's.

How'd those Toyo's do on that sheer ice? Trying to remember if you got them studded?

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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Getting 2900 in my 7WSM's with the 195,


What barrel length, twist, and which powder?

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26", 8", 7828ssc

24", 9.5", 7828ssc

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If your wanting long range on a budget,
Get the Savage 116 300wsm (Stainless synthetic)

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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
26", 8", 7828ssc

24", 9.5", 7828ssc


Damn. matches the top speed i've seen out of my 24" 7 weatherby. Those 195's are phenomenal, I have limited terminal performance to draw upon, as my tags this year were archery and musket, then broken leg. but a few buds ran them thru deer and elk and gave the thumbs up.

Also i was dickin' around with my L691 270wby and 170 EOL's, they were key holing..Thought nothing of it until Barsness reported them flying true out of a 1/10" 270 win. So i measured my twist, 11.75" is what i came up with..Eat a dick douglas!

I requested a 1-10" when i sent it in years ago, but never bothered to verify till the 170 EOL came on the market. Oh well, a 1-8" will shine.

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Originally Posted by rosco1
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
26", 8", 7828ssc

24", 9.5", 7828ssc


Damn. matches the top speed i've seen out of my 24" 7 weatherby. Those 195's are phenomenal, I have limited terminal performance to draw upon, as my tags this year were archery and musket, then broken leg. but a few buds ran them thru deer and elk and gave the thumbs up.

Also i was dickin' around with my L691 270wby and 170 EOL's, they were key holing..Thought nothing of it until Barsness reported them flying true out of a 1/10" 270 win. So i measured my twist, 11.75" is what i came up with..Eat a dick douglas!

I requested a 1-10" when i sent it in years ago, but never bothered to verify till the 170 EOL came on the market. Oh well, a 1-8" will shine.


Yeah, the 195's are simply awesome, but they sure don't dig very deep! wink I caught one last year under the offside hide of a decent WT buck shot broadside. It did punch both shoulder blades, but I would have thought that 195 grains of 7mm bullet just might exit. How'd it do for your buds?

A nearly 12" twist in a .277" bore brings no joy. I'm sure life will be better once you go 8" smile Did you hear anything about Matrix discontinuing .277" offerings? On their site they're not listed for sale anymore...

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Originally Posted by rosco1


Also i was dickin' around with my L691 270wby and 170 EOL's, they were key holing..Thought nothing of it until Barsness reported them flying true out of a 1/10" 270 win. So i measured my twist, 11.75" is what i came up with..Eat a dick douglas!


Out of curiosity did you run any over the chronograph? I have a 1 in 9 twist 270 Win and some of those 170's but adding a 270 Wby has always been intriguing. Hope to load a few this week finally.

Last edited by gerrygoat; 12/28/16.

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Of the deer shot, only one exited and that one was at over 900 yards.

The elk was taken out via gutless, so no real idea there other than he died within 20 yards of impact,no exit.

Time will tell, need a few more victims to draw a conclusion. I hadnt heard about the matrix.

Gerry, 3025fps with H1000.I didnt work with it much at all given my twist situation.They show promise with the right barrel.

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Thanks for the info.


Gerry.
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