Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters why reduced/downloaded rifle cartridges frown upon?

Leo,

I tend to use 5744 more than Trail Boss in the .223, and in other cartridges. 5744 just seems to be easier to handle, and even though it costs a little more than some other rifle powders, it costs less than TB. Plus, it also works very well in many full-power loads, both in the .223 and other rounds.

I used to play with reduced loads but really don't have time for it anymore. I just use my full power loads with cheaper bullets and get my practice that way.

I have rifles chambered for 223 and 257 Roberts and now a 6.5 Creedmoor. None of these recoil at all heavily and are easily managed for as much shooting as I need to do.

Years ago I bought a .458 African Model 70 Super Grade with the idea that I could load it to 45-70 levels. I had a hang fire that caused me to reconsider.
I still load down the 308 that my late wife used, and my 30-06 with cast lead bullets.
Yes I am retired.
whelennut

I found a load for a 222 Rem in an old Speer manual I believe of 10 grains of SR 4759 behind a 55 grain fmj. Very accurate out of my 24V. Had a bit of an issue however, I shot it the other day in hot weather and had pressure problems with one round. I stopped shooting came home and weighed every round I had loaded for a double charge and found none. Besides a double charge is there something else that could have happened? I have shot plenty of these in warm weather with absolutely no problems, but to be honest it sounded like I had 20 grains of powder instead of 10, it was loud and the action was very tight after firing.

Sure. Out of a 20" barrel, I get 1800 FPS with a 55 grain FMJ bullet, CCI 450 primer, and 7.5 grains of Accurate #5. That's sort of a husky 22 Mag.

With 5 grains, I get a little over 1300.

Didn't test whether the twist was enough to stabilize the bullets.

You can shoot those loads for around $.08 each if you have poly coated cast or plated bullets. Or if you bought a large quantity of FMJs for less than $.05 each a long time ago.

I didn't meet the demon, but that doesn't mean he doesn't live there. But the only kabooms I've read about happened with reduced loads of rifle powder.

Your mileage will vary from mine. Use at your own risk.

Some powders are position sensitive, and some are not. Universal and TightGroup seem not to be position sensitive. Don't remember my conclusion on #5. I did the load testing before I started testing pistol powders for position sensitivity.

It would seem you found the one out of that batch that was double charged.

SR-4759 is/was the t*ts for midrange loads and cast bullets in about everything under the sun. Sadly it was discontinued last year. Thank god I have enough stashed to get me well into my golden years. 20 grains/180 cast bullet yields honest 1 1/4 MOA in my current 1903A1 National Match rifle (and often better with the NOE 308-169)- 10 shot groups, issue sights. Certainly not up to current "internet standards", but the gun won't shoot any better than that with Lake City Match ammo- at about 1/10 the cost. (And I'm not wearing out barrels also.)

I visually check and double check charged cases in the loading block before seating bullets, and in nigh onto a half-century of dinking with drastically reduced loads I've never experienced a double charge. Care and common sense rules at the loading bench.

I don't know how low I have loaded them, but I know it has been under 2000 FPS. I'd guess about 1600 based on noise. I don't FL resize any more. I just use a Lee collet neck sizer.

Blue Dot is great for this! I never tried to see how low I could go or worried about velocity. When I need really quiet I use .22 CB longs in long barreled rifles. Out of those rifles, the firing pin makes more noise than anything.

I only shoot .22 lr anymore because the rifles are fun or I need super quiet. The .223 is a better substitute and only a little louder.

Your choice of bullet and 8.0 grains of Trail Boss....1950fps

If carried to extremes the practice can be dangerous.

why does anybody bother to buy a 44 mag or a 357 if all they shoot are 44 spec and 38 spec load equiv.

Because there's no reason not to.




Dave

The answer to that is simple in my case: I don't just shoot SPL loads. I shoot at a variety of levels. However, for plinking and general use, I usually stay on the low side.

It makes more sense to shoot a light 357 Mag load than a hot 38 SPL load; there is less that can go wrong. You also have a bit more strength in the firearm should something go wrong.

With the deer rifles, I have to trim brass less, because there is lower pressure. It's also much easier to work up an accurate load; usually the first attempt at 5% off MAX is as good as it gets.

In thirty five years of reloading I believe this was my first. I have never had a major malfunction or even close to now. I check and recheck everything so that is why I was wondering if there could be anything else that would cause such a reaction. Definitely not one to push envelopes, but the idea of a true multi-use rifle intrigued my curiosity, rabbits, squirrels, turkeys, varmint ecetera. I think I'll buy a 22 mag over a 410 or 20 gauge and stick to full power loads. My 24V shoots those exceptionally well for these rifles, well under 1 MOA.

4759 is pretty forgiving. Short of a double charge I'm at a loss as to what to say. 100% of my experience with 4759 has been with cast bullets. I never used any behind a jacketed one. You weren't using a filler of any kind, were you?

Have you priced .22RF Mags lately? Have you even seen any on the shelf? I haven't in a long time. Might be different where you are. If I were in the market for a rimfire with more snot than a .22LR, I would go the .17 route myself.

Were it me, I would snag a mold that throws a 50 grain bullet and use it in your rifle with whatever charge of Unique, 2400, 4759, 4227, 5744, etc. that gives you 16-1900fps and have what would amount to a .22RF Super- at less than half the cost of RF Mags, and tuneable to your rifle. A little work? Sure. But it's an avenue of rifle experimentation that is very satisfying, especially if you're like me and get bored with the same old thing easily.

I used a 40gr Nosler BT and 4.5 grains of TB = 1430fps. I was trying to get under 1100fps (subsonic), but a 40gr bullet is too light. It shot into about 2 inches @ 100yds from my RAR Predator.

Yes..there is typically an accuracy node down around that point...bu there is typically another at or a little above listed max. The higher pressure node is usually much more consistent, and of course, faster. For me, I will take speed with accuracy every time, and in certain circumstances, I will sacrifice a certain amount of accuracy for speed. More speed makes slippery bullets behave much better at all ranges, but especially long ones.

In the end, I dont "frown upon" reduced loads...I simply dont see the point.

Let me get this straight: If you had a 700horsepower Dodge Charger would you drive it at its full potential all the time? 150MPH bazai runs to the Safeway? 160 MPH jaunts to the dentists office? Or just open her up out on a lonely stretch of interstate now and then? Same exact analogy holds true for rifles, IMO.

If a 700hp Charger was my only vehicle? Sure....but I prefer to have other vehicles (rifles) to do the job at hand.

If I want to ring steel at 1200yds, I dont grab a 22 Hornet, and I dont reach for a 300 Win Mag to shoot rabbits.

Yes. Cast bullets and Bullseye will get you there easily, or even slower if you want. Any of the really fast pistol/shotgun powders work for this; it almost doesn't even matter which powder you choose, so much as the burn rate.

Seafire a member on this forum has done a lot of shooting with blue dot and 223. I tried it and like what I found. I dont always want to shoot at longer ranges and like these loads.
I believe that he uses them because he is a very high volumne shooter. More bang for the buck.