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Originally Posted by RoninPhx

I need an edge to humiliate scott when shooting. And BC Colorado too, for that matter.


Keep dreaming. grin


The first time I shot myself in the head...

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just for that i am going to start looking for pins to practice with.


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Practice all you want but when someone is shooting at the next table your scores will drop like a rock. Don't ask me how I know.


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You need to quit fighting it and by a RIA 1911 and leave those silly double actions at home.


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Next time I will use the Ruger Old Army with black powder.

No one will even see the pins... grin

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Originally Posted by Scott F
You need to quit fighting it and by a RIA 1911 and leave those silly double actions at home.

I have a remington rand from 1943 sitting on my desk right now. With a fitted bushing micro adjustable sights, no play in it at all. Was used for bullseye shooting.
But you probably would not be interested in that, or the extra military barrels for it.
Did i mention it shoots good?
you really have to concentrate to figure out where the trigger letoff is, kind of smooth.

Last edited by RoninPhx; 07/22/16.

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Quote
You need to quit fighting it and by a RIA 1911 and leave those silly double actions at home.


As score keeper, I was watching pretty close. Seems to me that someone good with a quick loader could do as well with a double action revolver as a semi. At least with the expertise in our matches. Also seemed that .45 or bigger did best, except for the .22 for the younger ones. Being close to the back was a big advantage, and those young men did well with it. miles


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I competed when I was in college in the early 80's. Used to compete against Aaron Hogue. I used a 5" M29 loaded to 900 fps with a 240 gr cast SWC (Lyman 429421) and a tweaked Colt 1911 loaded to 900 fps with a 200 gr SWC (HG-68). Both worked very well. It is a helluva lot of fun.


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Wish you could have been there Ed. It was a lot of fun.


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Originally Posted by Scott F
Wish you could have been there Ed. It was a lot of fun.


No doubt. I should make Tonto again.


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For those that can shoot such a thing, Paladins big pistol knocked them off the table real well. miles


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Originally Posted by RoninPhx

As the game progressed, the pins, easy enough to hit, would more lay down than go off the table, explained to me as the pins were filling up with lead.
Which causes me to wonder, is there a best place to hit the pin?

...

what would be the optimun firearms/round to do this?

...

I with limited knowlege seem to lean there is a connection between power, but yet retaining speed to clear the table.
thoughts?


I used to shoot in weekly bowling pin match. Ours was in a head-to-head, double elimination format at 25 feet where you had to put all your pins on the ground before the guy you were shooting against. The winner advanced; the loser went to the loser's bracket.

At one point I was fairly determined to find the perfect bullet and began experimenting to see what worked. Here's a few of my thoughts (right or wrong):

Bowling pins shooting is first and foremost an ACCURACY competition, and then a SPEED competition. If you can hit where you aim every time, you'll only get beat by guys who can do the same, but at a faster pace. Remember: You can miss as fast as you want, but you can only hit as fast as you are able.

To practice for pins, you don't need pins. You need targets no bigger than the size of the logo on a bowing pin. I used small sticky notes about 1.5 inches square. Use 3 of them to make a triangle, with about 18" between each sticky note, and just practice rotating around, hitting each one. It helps in target acquisition and accuracy. I used to put 3 rounds in each of about 5 1911 magazines and incorporate mag changes into the drill.

I think the best bowling pin cartridge is the 10mm Auto. Bigger, more powerful cartridges will put you into a revolver, and only the most excellent shooters can beat an auto with a revolver. If you're a great shot and can quickly reload your revolver, then you might be OK. However, you'll be shooting against guys with autos who are great shots and can quickly reload too. Our format allowed 6 rounds per magazine for autos, so that auto guys wouldn't have a numbers advantage over the revolver guys.

The 10mm seemed to be the cartridge that gave the best transfer of momentum but remained "shootable." Guys shooting anything heavier were slower getting back on target and heavy recoil seemed to affect their accuracy. The second best cartridge IMHO is the 45 ACP in an automatic of your choosing. I shoot a 5" steel frame 1911 in .45 ACP. While I think the .45 ACP is the second best cartridge, it is easily the number one choice of pin shooters. 95% of the guys I know use a .45 ACP. Most of the rest shoot .40 S&W. Very few shoot 10mm--probably because they aren't that common and many matches are "lost brass" matches and that would get expensive! (Ours is not a lost brass match, but still, about everybody uses a .45 ACP).

As for bullet choice, I don't think the bullet shape gives you any discernible advantage--bullet weight and speed are what make the most difference. Shoot the heaviest bullet and the fastest speed. I shot a BUNCH of different bullets and finally settled on the 230gr Truncated Cone by Penn Bullets. It's cheap and very effective. I like a bullet that expands just enough that it either barely goes through the pin or doesn't quite make it all the way through. You want a bullet that transfers its momentum to the pin so that it moves the pin. The Penn bullet was perfect for me. I loaded it over 4.6gr of TiteGroup. I don't think I ever lost a pin match only because somebody had a better powder/bullet combo. Frankly, guys also do pretty well shooting FMJ bullets. I just don't like FMJ bullets on new pins, because they seem to go through too easily, but really, a lot of guys do just fine with FMJ ball ammo.

Hit a pin right in the middle of the logo. It'll move the pin back and off the table when you do that. If you miss a little, you're still high enough on the pin to make it roll after it gets knocked over. Again, it's an accuracy competition way before it becomes a speed competition.

Well I think that's most of it. My wife wants to walk out the door for dinner, so I'll follow up later if needed.

Good luck!


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This is from the guy who taught Brian and I the game. Note I shoot a 1911 with cast truncated cone bullets.

Sometimes I do listen to those who know more about something than I do. Then I am also the guy who has shot himself in the head twice.


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ah, the 10mm. I had a blackhawk 10mm in the car, didn't bring the glock, perhaps i should have.
i have a 200grain pill doing at least 1200fps out of the glock.


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Unless you are really good and do not need a reload or you are really fast with moon clips that 10 mm will be your best friend against the pins. Wade, one of the finest you will ever meet knows his pin shooting.


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Originally Posted by Scott F
Practice all you want but when someone is shooting at the next table your scores will drop like a rock. Don't ask me how I know.


I love shooting head to head. Keeps things interesting... wink


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by Waders
Originally Posted by RoninPhx

As the game progressed, the pins, easy enough to hit, would more lay down than go off the table, explained to me as the pins were filling up with lead.
Which causes me to wonder, is there a best place to hit the pin?

...

what would be the optimun firearms/round to do this?

...

I with limited knowlege seem to lean there is a connection between power, but yet retaining speed to clear the table.
thoughts?


I used to shoot in weekly bowling pin match. Ours was in a head-to-head, double elimination format at 25 feet where you had to put all your pins on the ground before the guy you were shooting against. The winner advanced; the loser went to the loser's bracket.

At one point I was fairly determined to find the perfect bullet and began experimenting to see what worked. Here's a few of my thoughts (right or wrong):

Bowling pins shooting is first and foremost an ACCURACY competition, and then a SPEED competition. If you can hit where you aim every time, you'll only get beat by guys who can do the same, but at a faster pace. Remember: You can miss as fast as you want, but you can only hit as fast as you are able.

To practice for pins, you don't need pins. You need targets no bigger than the size of the logo on a bowing pin. I used small sticky notes about 1.5 inches square. Use 3 of them to make a triangle, with about 18" between each sticky note, and just practice rotating around, hitting each one. It helps in target acquisition and accuracy. I used to put 3 rounds in each of about 5 1911 magazines and incorporate mag changes into the drill.

I think the best bowling pin cartridge is the 10mm Auto. Bigger, more powerful cartridges will put you into a revolver, and only the most excellent shooters can beat an auto with a revolver. If you're a great shot and can quickly reload your revolver, then you might be OK. However, you'll be shooting against guys with autos who are great shots and can quickly reload too. Our format allowed 6 rounds per magazine for autos, so that auto guys wouldn't have a numbers advantage over the revolver guys.

The 10mm seemed to be the cartridge that gave the best transfer of momentum but remained "shootable." Guys shooting anything heavier were slower getting back on target and heavy recoil seemed to affect their accuracy. The second best cartridge IMHO is the 45 ACP in an automatic of your choosing. I shoot a 5" steel frame 1911 in .45 ACP. While I think the .45 ACP is the second best cartridge, it is easily the number one choice of pin shooters. 95% of the guys I know use a .45 ACP. Most of the rest shoot .40 S&W. Very few shoot 10mm--probably because they aren't that common and many matches are "lost brass" matches and that would get expensive! (Ours is not a lost brass match, but still, about everybody uses a .45 ACP).

As for bullet choice, I don't think the bullet shape gives you any discernible advantage--bullet weight and speed are what make the most difference. Shoot the heaviest bullet and the fastest speed. I shot a BUNCH of different bullets and finally settled on the 230gr Truncated Cone by Penn Bullets. It's cheap and very effective. I like a bullet that expands just enough that it either barely goes through the pin or doesn't quite make it all the way through. You want a bullet that transfers its momentum to the pin so that it moves the pin. The Penn bullet was perfect for me. I loaded it over 4.6gr of TiteGroup. I don't think I ever lost a pin match only because somebody had a better powder/bullet combo. Frankly, guys also do pretty well shooting FMJ bullets. I just don't like FMJ bullets on new pins, because they seem to go through too easily, but really, a lot of guys do just fine with FMJ ball ammo.

Hit a pin right in the middle of the logo. It'll move the pin back and off the table when you do that. If you miss a little, you're still high enough on the pin to make it roll after it gets knocked over. Again, it's an accuracy competition way before it becomes a speed competition.

Well I think that's most of it. My wife wants to walk out the door for dinner, so I'll follow up later if needed.

Good luck!


Wade hit the nail on the head. He knows the game. I totally agree with his philosophy about it being an accuracy game. Fast and accurate shooting and knowing how to deal with the head to head competition/stress wins the shoot. My best advice: Don't wait around and watch the pin fall off the table, MOVE to the next pin right after you shoot. We have some members that can take the pins off with 5 shots in less than 5 seconds!!! At our club, we do just as Wade describes, but we shoot at 13 yards (39'). We found that 25 feet is just too close... wink . Another piece of advice: Bring something reliable. Something that never lets you down. This is where my 3rd. gen smiths shine...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Here's a couple videos of me shooting pins back in the day:








I'd also post all the videos where I couldn't hit squat and made a fool of myself, but I'd crash Rick's server, there's so many of them! So just look at those and imagine that I shoot like that every time I go to the line!



Wade

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Originally Posted by RoninPhx
ah, the 10mm...
i have a 200grain pill doing at least 1200fps out of the glock.


Momentum=Mass x Velocity. So, your 200gr bullet multiplied by the 1200 MV gives you a momentum number of 240,000 (or 240, after knocking off the last three zeros).

An average .45 ACP is something like: 230 x 850 = 195,500 (or 195.5). If you can squeeze MV up to 900, you get: 230 x 900 = 207,000 (207).

A 40 S&W seems to produce its best numbers with 180gr bullets. 180 x 1050 = 189,000 (189).

I once saw a guy shoot pins with a 45 Win Mag. With his 250gr bullets at 1250, his momentum was 312.5! But, after 2 matches he stopped using it, because his hand was hurting. It did move pins though...


Wade

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