I had a chance this weekend for the first time to shoot bowling pins. While i could have used a variety of handguns, for whatever reason i was using a model of 1955 smith&wesson in .45acp. these were berry's 230grain plated roundball at about 850fps. As the game progressed, the pins, easy enough to hit, would more lay down than go off the table, explained to me as the pins were filling up with lead. Which causes me to wonder, is there a best place to hit the pin? what would be the optimun firearms/round to do this? I seem to lean towards the idea a semiauto might be an atvantage, subject to what kind of projectile/velocity one was using. I do know a certain member here had no problem air launching them with a 500. I with limited knowlege seem to lean there is a connection between power, but yet retaining speed to clear the table. thoughts?
Years ago when I was stationed in Nebraska I did a lot of pin shooting at the base range. Yes back then they let us use the base range for recreational shooting. It was a lot of fun not to mention pin shooting is a very practical way to practice defensive shooting. I used a 1911 in .45ACP or my S&W 586 in .357. As for where to aim I always kept it simple and aimed for the fattest part of the pin.
how far away are they? how big is the table? do you use 5 or 6 or more pins?
I would like to set up an unofficial range and try it.
It was along time ago but I think we used 6 pins and the distance was 7 yards. Don't know how big the tables were but the pins were placed about a foot apart. Two tables were set up so two shooters could shoot against each other. Who ever knocked all their pins off the table first was the winner. It was always a lot of fun.
Back in the 90s someone advertised bullets that had a saw toothed design on the "nose" that was supposed to "grab" the pins and help get them off the table. Never shot pins so I don't know if it worked or not. Google grabber bullets and see what comes up.
Stupidity is expensive If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
I did a lot of bowling pin shoots, using my S&W 25-5, and a mild .45 colt lead load. Never felt the need to switch to a semi auto. After I had the .45 ACP cylinder made, and could use moon clips, the reloads were very quick indeed.
i was thinking about something like this bullet. Have a similar flat metplate from Matt's bullets for 41magnum that i was thinking about too: https://www.pennbullets.com/38/38230tndrhd.html
I used to shoot pin matches twice per month. We had several classes to keep everyone on a more even playing field.... and a reason to by more guns. All of mine were topped with a Tasco red dot and the centerfires had Hogue rubber grips.
Five pins shot in any order. Start at the ready with gun touching a rail about waist high. Time stops when the last pin hits the ground. Fastest two out of three rounds were added for score.
Rimfire Auto or Revolver Pins near the back edge of the table. Autos limited to six rounds in mag. One reload allowed. I preferred not to reload even if a pin was left on the table. If a reload was needed, you were not going to place. Shoot the last pin twice to make it fall faster!
I used a Buckmark Micro with custom comp.
Intermediate Auto Pins at the center of the table. Up to and including 38 Super
Springfield Armory Factory Comp 38 Super.
Intermediate Revolver Up to and including 38 Special Pins at the center of the table.
S&W 686 6" loaded with 38 special.
Large Auto Pins at the front of the table. Any caliber allowed but it better have some smoke behind it when the pins start getting full of lead. Most used 45ACP and a few 10mm.
Springfield Factory Comp 45ACP.
Large Revolver Pins at the front of the table. Any caliber allowed. Wide range of calibers were used from 357 to 454.
S&W 625 with 5.5" ported custom barrel. Occasionally used the 686 with 357 Mag.
Ron, I like the 230 gr truncated cone in a 1911. I had over five hundred rounds sitting on the table for anyone to try. A 230 gr TC will launch them off the table if you hit centre of mass.
...yes, bowling pins come right off the table with a 500 S&W loaded with 350 grain bullet at 1100 fps....
The standard .41 Magnum load of 8.0 grains of Unique with a 210 Berry's at 950 fps takes them right off the table also. So does a fully loaded .38 Super pushing a 124 at 1300 fps.
As to where to hit them...just below the fattest part of the pins body.
Most fun pin shoot I ever went to was a "10 Pin" shoot at a club in Salem, Oregon with one of the guys here on the Campfire...RGS. 3x3' piece of plywood for a table top with a full ten-pin setup on top...I believe the distance was 15-20 yards... We were using his 8 3/8" 657 .41 Magnum. My best run I cleared the table with 5 rounds. If you hit the head pin in just the right spot just like in bowling it would take half the pins off the table first shot.
I think you had a thirty round max to clear the table. If you cleared the table there was five clay bird on a board that you could break for bonus points. The second half of the shoot started with a bowling pin hanging from a rope at 50 yards. You had to start it swinging to go to a fifty yard target and put as many points on the target as possible. Any rounds that you didn't use on the bowling pins could be shot at the target once you started the bowling pin swinging... It was a total of 50 rounds of ammo...don't remember what the time limits were...
Bob
Last edited by RJM; 07/21/16.
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
The bowling pin was stationary hanging by a rope. To be able to go over to the 50 yard scoring target you had to hit the pin and make it start swinging...
The one run I did real well on the table and five clays with only 10 rounds I probably would have won but the gun was not sighted in for me at that distance and it took me at least 10 rounds to get the pin moving...
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
I had a couple of other guns with me, but didn't use them mostly because i liked shooting that model of 1955 so much. I had a couple of 41magnums with around 220grain leads and 8 1/2grains unique. The other one was a fairly warm 10mm in 180 grain i could have fired out of a long blackhawk. I shudder at this, but might have to find a pistol reddot sight to play with. one thing i can relate. The day before i shot a few of the handguns. one of which was the ruger redhawk 2.75inch barrel 41magnum. i remember reading somewhere a guy said out of the box it was shooting way to the left and way down. This was the first experience with that gun, and yep, it was ploughing earth. Bench time coming up to get it sighted in. other than that, kind of like the little revolver. I was thinking last night i have a new in the box model 19 smith. In six inch. Maybe it's doomed to shoot those 230 grain penn bullets, or a smith target six inch .38special with same. I need an edge to humiliate scott when shooting. And BC Colorado too, for that matter.
Georgia Arms loaded a "canned heat" .40S&W we used extensively back in the early 90's.
My wrists and hands thank me today for the abuse! Hate to even guess at how many rounds our Glocks digested. Should have invested in stocks and land...
You need to quit fighting it and by a RIA 1911 and leave those silly double actions at home.
I have a remington rand from 1943 sitting on my desk right now. With a fitted bushing micro adjustable sights, no play in it at all. Was used for bullseye shooting. But you probably would not be interested in that, or the extra military barrels for it. Did i mention it shoots good? you really have to concentrate to figure out where the trigger letoff is, kind of smooth.
You need to quit fighting it and by a RIA 1911 and leave those silly double actions at home.
As score keeper, I was watching pretty close. Seems to me that someone good with a quick loader could do as well with a double action revolver as a semi. At least with the expertise in our matches. Also seemed that .45 or bigger did best, except for the .22 for the younger ones. Being close to the back was a big advantage, and those young men did well with it. miles
I competed when I was in college in the early 80's. Used to compete against Aaron Hogue. I used a 5" M29 loaded to 900 fps with a 240 gr cast SWC (Lyman 429421) and a tweaked Colt 1911 loaded to 900 fps with a 200 gr SWC (HG-68). Both worked very well. It is a helluva lot of fun.
As the game progressed, the pins, easy enough to hit, would more lay down than go off the table, explained to me as the pins were filling up with lead. Which causes me to wonder, is there a best place to hit the pin?
...
what would be the optimun firearms/round to do this?
...
I with limited knowlege seem to lean there is a connection between power, but yet retaining speed to clear the table. thoughts?
I used to shoot in weekly bowling pin match. Ours was in a head-to-head, double elimination format at 25 feet where you had to put all your pins on the ground before the guy you were shooting against. The winner advanced; the loser went to the loser's bracket.
At one point I was fairly determined to find the perfect bullet and began experimenting to see what worked. Here's a few of my thoughts (right or wrong):
Bowling pins shooting is first and foremost an ACCURACY competition, and then a SPEED competition. If you can hit where you aim every time, you'll only get beat by guys who can do the same, but at a faster pace. Remember: You can miss as fast as you want, but you can only hit as fast as you are able.
To practice for pins, you don't need pins. You need targets no bigger than the size of the logo on a bowing pin. I used small sticky notes about 1.5 inches square. Use 3 of them to make a triangle, with about 18" between each sticky note, and just practice rotating around, hitting each one. It helps in target acquisition and accuracy. I used to put 3 rounds in each of about 5 1911 magazines and incorporate mag changes into the drill.
I think the best bowling pin cartridge is the 10mm Auto. Bigger, more powerful cartridges will put you into a revolver, and only the most excellent shooters can beat an auto with a revolver. If you're a great shot and can quickly reload your revolver, then you might be OK. However, you'll be shooting against guys with autos who are great shots and can quickly reload too. Our format allowed 6 rounds per magazine for autos, so that auto guys wouldn't have a numbers advantage over the revolver guys.
The 10mm seemed to be the cartridge that gave the best transfer of momentum but remained "shootable." Guys shooting anything heavier were slower getting back on target and heavy recoil seemed to affect their accuracy. The second best cartridge IMHO is the 45 ACP in an automatic of your choosing. I shoot a 5" steel frame 1911 in .45 ACP. While I think the .45 ACP is the second best cartridge, it is easily the number one choice of pin shooters. 95% of the guys I know use a .45 ACP. Most of the rest shoot .40 S&W. Very few shoot 10mm--probably because they aren't that common and many matches are "lost brass" matches and that would get expensive! (Ours is not a lost brass match, but still, about everybody uses a .45 ACP).
As for bullet choice, I don't think the bullet shape gives you any discernible advantage--bullet weight and speed are what make the most difference. Shoot the heaviest bullet and the fastest speed. I shot a BUNCH of different bullets and finally settled on the 230gr Truncated Cone by Penn Bullets. It's cheap and very effective. I like a bullet that expands just enough that it either barely goes through the pin or doesn't quite make it all the way through. You want a bullet that transfers its momentum to the pin so that it moves the pin. The Penn bullet was perfect for me. I loaded it over 4.6gr of TiteGroup. I don't think I ever lost a pin match only because somebody had a better powder/bullet combo. Frankly, guys also do pretty well shooting FMJ bullets. I just don't like FMJ bullets on new pins, because they seem to go through too easily, but really, a lot of guys do just fine with FMJ ball ammo.
Hit a pin right in the middle of the logo. It'll move the pin back and off the table when you do that. If you miss a little, you're still high enough on the pin to make it roll after it gets knocked over. Again, it's an accuracy competition way before it becomes a speed competition.
Well I think that's most of it. My wife wants to walk out the door for dinner, so I'll follow up later if needed.
ah, the 10mm. I had a blackhawk 10mm in the car, didn't bring the glock, perhaps i should have. i have a 200grain pill doing at least 1200fps out of the glock.
Unless you are really good and do not need a reload or you are really fast with moon clips that 10 mm will be your best friend against the pins. Wade, one of the finest you will ever meet knows his pin shooting.
As the game progressed, the pins, easy enough to hit, would more lay down than go off the table, explained to me as the pins were filling up with lead. Which causes me to wonder, is there a best place to hit the pin?
...
what would be the optimun firearms/round to do this?
...
I with limited knowlege seem to lean there is a connection between power, but yet retaining speed to clear the table. thoughts?
I used to shoot in weekly bowling pin match. Ours was in a head-to-head, double elimination format at 25 feet where you had to put all your pins on the ground before the guy you were shooting against. The winner advanced; the loser went to the loser's bracket.
At one point I was fairly determined to find the perfect bullet and began experimenting to see what worked. Here's a few of my thoughts (right or wrong):
Bowling pins shooting is first and foremost an ACCURACY competition, and then a SPEED competition. If you can hit where you aim every time, you'll only get beat by guys who can do the same, but at a faster pace. Remember: You can miss as fast as you want, but you can only hit as fast as you are able.
To practice for pins, you don't need pins. You need targets no bigger than the size of the logo on a bowing pin. I used small sticky notes about 1.5 inches square. Use 3 of them to make a triangle, with about 18" between each sticky note, and just practice rotating around, hitting each one. It helps in target acquisition and accuracy. I used to put 3 rounds in each of about 5 1911 magazines and incorporate mag changes into the drill.
I think the best bowling pin cartridge is the 10mm Auto. Bigger, more powerful cartridges will put you into a revolver, and only the most excellent shooters can beat an auto with a revolver. If you're a great shot and can quickly reload your revolver, then you might be OK. However, you'll be shooting against guys with autos who are great shots and can quickly reload too. Our format allowed 6 rounds per magazine for autos, so that auto guys wouldn't have a numbers advantage over the revolver guys.
The 10mm seemed to be the cartridge that gave the best transfer of momentum but remained "shootable." Guys shooting anything heavier were slower getting back on target and heavy recoil seemed to affect their accuracy. The second best cartridge IMHO is the 45 ACP in an automatic of your choosing. I shoot a 5" steel frame 1911 in .45 ACP. While I think the .45 ACP is the second best cartridge, it is easily the number one choice of pin shooters. 95% of the guys I know use a .45 ACP. Most of the rest shoot .40 S&W. Very few shoot 10mm--probably because they aren't that common and many matches are "lost brass" matches and that would get expensive! (Ours is not a lost brass match, but still, about everybody uses a .45 ACP).
As for bullet choice, I don't think the bullet shape gives you any discernible advantage--bullet weight and speed are what make the most difference. Shoot the heaviest bullet and the fastest speed. I shot a BUNCH of different bullets and finally settled on the 230gr Truncated Cone by Penn Bullets. It's cheap and very effective. I like a bullet that expands just enough that it either barely goes through the pin or doesn't quite make it all the way through. You want a bullet that transfers its momentum to the pin so that it moves the pin. The Penn bullet was perfect for me. I loaded it over 4.6gr of TiteGroup. I don't think I ever lost a pin match only because somebody had a better powder/bullet combo. Frankly, guys also do pretty well shooting FMJ bullets. I just don't like FMJ bullets on new pins, because they seem to go through too easily, but really, a lot of guys do just fine with FMJ ball ammo.
Hit a pin right in the middle of the logo. It'll move the pin back and off the table when you do that. If you miss a little, you're still high enough on the pin to make it roll after it gets knocked over. Again, it's an accuracy competition way before it becomes a speed competition.
Well I think that's most of it. My wife wants to walk out the door for dinner, so I'll follow up later if needed.
Good luck!
Wade hit the nail on the head. He knows the game. I totally agree with his philosophy about it being an accuracy game. Fast and accurate shooting and knowing how to deal with the head to head competition/stress wins the shoot. My best advice: Don't wait around and watch the pin fall off the table, MOVE to the next pin right after you shoot. We have some members that can take the pins off with 5 shots in less than 5 seconds!!! At our club, we do just as Wade describes, but we shoot at 13 yards (39'). We found that 25 feet is just too close... . Another piece of advice: Bring something reliable. Something that never lets you down. This is where my 3rd. gen smiths shine...
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Here's a couple videos of me shooting pins back in the day:
I'd also post all the videos where I couldn't hit squat and made a fool of myself, but I'd crash Rick's server, there's so many of them! So just look at those and imagine that I shoot like that every time I go to the line!
ah, the 10mm... i have a 200grain pill doing at least 1200fps out of the glock.
Momentum=Mass x Velocity. So, your 200gr bullet multiplied by the 1200 MV gives you a momentum number of 240,000 (or 240, after knocking off the last three zeros).
An average .45 ACP is something like: 230 x 850 = 195,500 (or 195.5). If you can squeeze MV up to 900, you get: 230 x 900 = 207,000 (207).
A 40 S&W seems to produce its best numbers with 180gr bullets. 180 x 1050 = 189,000 (189).
I once saw a guy shoot pins with a 45 Win Mag. With his 250gr bullets at 1250, his momentum was 312.5! But, after 2 matches he stopped using it, because his hand was hurting. It did move pins though...
