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Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? #11326462 07/23/16
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 17,927 1 16bore OP Campfire Ranger
OP 16bore Campfire Ranger 1 Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 17,927	Or is it just me?

GB1

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11326464 07/23/16
Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 48,010 Battle Born B bsa1917hunter Campfire 'Bwana
bsa1917hunter Campfire 'Bwana B Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 48,010 Battle Born	They hit the fu cking wall way back in the time of the great depression. Some people are just too slow to learn this. Originally Posted by raybass I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. Originally Posted by Pharmseller You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? bsa1917hunter #11326475 07/23/16
Joined: Oct 2002 Posts: 96,121 S Steelhead Campfire Oracle
Steelhead Campfire Oracle S Joined: Oct 2002 Posts: 96,121	Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter They hit the fu cking wall way back in the time of the great depression. Some people are just too slow to learn this. Yeah, that's it. "Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? bsa1917hunter #11326489 07/23/16
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 24,638 Midwest SKane Campfire Ranger
SKane Campfire Ranger Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 24,638 Midwest	Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter They hit the fu cking wall way back in the time of the great depression. Some people are just too slow to learn this. Speaking of slow......... WWP53D

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11326500 07/23/16
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 35,900 B BobinNH Campfire 'Bwana
BobinNH Campfire 'Bwana B Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 35,900	Not sure I understand the question.... The 280 Remington is overbore. The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.

IC B2

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11326530 07/23/16
Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 32,140 OMAHA 260Remguy Campfire 'Bwana
260Remguy Campfire 'Bwana Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 32,140 OMAHA	I think that there have been significant improvements/advancements in bullet and optics technology over the past 50 years, but no similar revolutions in rifles or cartridges. Nobody can predict what will happen over the next 50 years.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11326581 07/23/16
Joined: Nov 2013 Posts: 28,742 West of the Blue Ridge Pappy348 Campfire Ranger
Pappy348 Campfire Ranger Joined: Nov 2013 Posts: 28,742 West of the Blue Ridge	I don't see a whole lot of room for improvement for hunting rifles without compromising our sporting ethics. Some would argue we've already gone a bit too far in some ways. We could maybe use some better hunters (I include myself here). New target games can always be invented or rules changed as new technologies emerge, maybe featuring rapid fire or multiple targets at long range to further challenge the participants. Lots of possibilities exist here ( think 1000 yard dueling trees or some kind of long-range whack-a-mole). For the military, the sky's the limit. Some of this new laser gear being deployed is amazing. Portable units for soldiers won't be far off. What fresh Hell is this?

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11326701 07/23/16
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 8,158 Western Pennsylvania D donsm70 Campfire Outfitter
donsm70 Campfire Outfitter D Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 8,158 Western Pennsylvania	Originally Posted by 16bore Or is it just me? I hope we are talking about performance, not price! donsm70 Life Member...Safari Club International Life Member...Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation Life Member...Keystone Country Elk Alliance Life Member...National Rifle Association

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11326702 07/23/16
Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 13,921 PA moosemike Campfire Outfitter
moosemike Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 13,921 PA	Yes. Hunters are becoming less experimental and more conservative. I would not want to introduce a new cartridge into this climate if I were a gunmaker. It's risky enough offering a once popular round that has fallen out of favor into your lineup. And forget any new lever, pump, or sporting autoloaders.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? Pappy348 #11326770 07/23/16
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 28,847 Grants Pass,OR Ringman Campfire Ranger
Ringman Campfire Ranger Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 28,847 Grants Pass,OR	Pappy348, Quote I don't see a whole lot of room for improvement for hunting rifles without compromising our sporting ethics. This doesn't make any sense to me. For me lighter is better. I purchased a titanium action; an improvement. To go with that I purchased a carbon fiber barrel; an improvement. To go with that I purchased a Kevlar stock and a micro-cell recoil pad to save a few ounces; both improvements. When I was young I carried an eleven pound rifle. Now that I'm in my seventies I carry a seven pound rifle. We've been killing animals with way more technology than the animals have for generations. What does it have to do with ethics? "Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter

IC B3

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11326945 07/23/16
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 35,900 B BobinNH Campfire 'Bwana
BobinNH Campfire 'Bwana B Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 35,900	Originally Posted by 16bore Or is it just me? i doubt it (assuming I understand the question). All trends have been toward hitting stuff further away,and using technology to make it easier for shooters. Hunting will be less of a factor as the number of hunters and affordable hunting opportunities continues to decline. Most shooting will go to the match/tactical guys.I think we are already there. More shooting will center around target/match /tactical type stuff. And we will see caseless cartridges, remote control rifles and scopes that automatically do the aiming ,compensating,and shooting for those lacking skills. There will be a decline in basic skills as technology in scopes and rifles compensates for personal competence. We already see these trends in hunting. "Hitting" will become easier but the trend will be to remove the elements of human error from the equation to the extent possible, thus the decline in personal skill sets. Less stuff to figure out. The gear is gonna do it for you. The 280 Remington is overbore. The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11326959 07/23/16
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 42,730 Southern Oregon USA S Seafire Campfire 'Bwana
Seafire Campfire 'Bwana S Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 42,730 Southern Oregon USA	I'm one of the dinosaurs who prefer Round Nose Bullets.... so I'm not qualified to answer.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11326964 07/23/16
Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 782 Stevil Campfire Regular
Stevil Campfire Regular Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 782	Im the same, hunting distances aside a well manufactured round nose bullet will typically give more reliable expansion and terminal performance at normal hunting ranges of less than 200m. Sectional density and a reasonably fast twist only aid the job.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? Seafire #11327008 07/23/16
Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 13,921 PA moosemike Campfire Outfitter
moosemike Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 13,921 PA	Originally Posted by Seafire I'm one of the dinosaurs who prefer Round Nose Bullets.... so I'm not qualified to answer. Nothing wrong with that. Always loved 180 and 220 RNCL out of an Aught Six.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11327182 07/23/16
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 17,927 1 16bore OP Campfire Ranger
OP 16bore Campfire Ranger 1 Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 17,927	I see you're thinking Bob. I think I've become Elmer Fudd in an ultra tacticool world.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11327238 07/23/16
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 35,900 B BobinNH Campfire 'Bwana
BobinNH Campfire 'Bwana B Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 35,900	Originally Posted by 16bore I see you're thinking Bob. I think I've become Elmer Fudd in an ultra tacticool world. 16: Of course I am just speculating. But it isn't hard to imagine. I just saw them advertising bow sights that make 100 yard shots a piece of cake. Imagine what they can do with rifles,scopes and computer chips in the future? The 280 Remington is overbore. The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? Seafire #11327262 07/23/16
Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 96,040 Southern New Mexico E elkhunternm Campfire Oracle
elkhunternm Campfire Oracle E Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 96,040 Southern New Mexico	Originally Posted by Seafire I'm one of the dinosaurs who prefer Round Nose Bullets.... so I'm not qualified to answer. Have a bunch of .375" 270 & 300 gr Hornady RN. They work very well on jackrabbits,especially the 270 gr RN's. Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard Ken

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11327269 07/23/16
Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,997 Cave Creek, AZ Blacktailer Campfire Tracker
Blacktailer Campfire Tracker Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,997 Cave Creek, AZ	Like everything else the evolution will continue. As new disciplines are created the technologies will evolve to fill niches or shortcomings. Someday "hunting" may evolve to catch and release with a paintball gun . Think of the technology to allow 300yd shots with a paintball! As long as there are mice, someone will try to build a better mousetrap. I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all. Jack O'Connor

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? elkhunternm #11327374 07/24/16
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 14,119 Texas G geedubya Campfire Outfitter
geedubya Campfire Outfitter G Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 14,119 Texas	Originally Posted by elkhunternm Originally Posted by Seafire I'm one of the dinosaurs who prefer Round Nose Bullets.... so I'm not qualified to answer. Have a bunch of .375" 270 & 300 gr Hornady RN. They work very well on jackrabbits,especially the 270 gr RN's. 286 gr. Nosler Partitions work well on hoppers! ya' GWB A Kill Artist. When I draw, I draw blood.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11327419 07/24/16
Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 5,735 Minnesota M MILES58 Campfire Tracker
MILES58 Campfire Tracker M Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 5,735 Minnesota	This has got to be one of the dumbest questions I have seen on the board. How old are the spiffy little rimfire 17s? How old is the .204? How old are the Enduron powders like 4451? How old are copper monos? How many years have we had factory ammo that across the board shot as accurately and hand loads and faster? How many years have we had out of the box rifle that consistently shot MOA groups without a lot of screwing around? And that very brief list doesn't address figuring out how to use things together like Blue Dot and light Hornet bullets in .223s as UBER performing replacements for .22 lr ammo that is hard/impossible to find. The improved design and manufacturing processes have given us incredible glass at very reasonable prices. Even blister pack scopes are way ahead of much of the scopes not so long ago. We are living through the most productive time for improvement to the tools of our sport.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? geedubya #11327425 07/24/16
Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 96,040 Southern New Mexico E elkhunternm Campfire Oracle
elkhunternm Campfire Oracle E Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 96,040 Southern New Mexico	Originally Posted by geedubya Originally Posted by elkhunternm Originally Posted by Seafire I'm one of the dinosaurs who prefer Round Nose Bullets.... so I'm not qualified to answer. Have a bunch of .375" 270 & 300 gr Hornady RN. They work very well on jackrabbits,especially the 270 gr RN's. 286 gr. Nosler Partitions work well on hoppers! ya' GWB Yup! Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard Ken

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? MILES58 #11327452 07/24/16
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 17,927 1 16bore OP Campfire Ranger
OP 16bore Campfire Ranger 1 Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 17,927	Originally Posted by MILES58 This has got to be one of the dumbest questions I have seen on the board. How old are the spiffy little rimfire 17s? How old is the .204? How old are the Enduron powders like 4451? How old are copper monos? How many years have we had factory ammo that across the board shot as accurately and hand loads and faster? How many years have we had out of the box rifle that consistently shot MOA groups without a lot of screwing around? And that very brief list doesn't address figuring out how to use things together like Blue Dot and light Hornet bullets in .223s as UBER performing replacements for .22 lr ammo that is hard/impossible to find. The improved design and manufacturing processes have given us incredible glass at very reasonable prices. Even blister pack scopes are way ahead of much of the scopes not so long ago. We are living through the most productive time for improvement to the tools of our sport. If that list of skullphucked schit impresses you, have at it.......

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11327548 07/24/16
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,342 Finger Lakes NY fishdog52 Campfire Regular
fishdog52 Campfire Regular Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,342 Finger Lakes NY	I think that technology is continuing on each and every piece of our arsenal. No question lots of the old stuff works and works well enough, but there is always room for improvement. I have little doubt that we'll see marked improvements in propellants as the technology there unfolds. And, the haters are going to contine to hate. Imagine your grave on a windy winter night. You've been dead for 70 years. It's been 50 since a visitor last paused at your tombstone..... Now explain why you're in a pissy mood today.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11327570 07/24/16
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 28,847 Grants Pass,OR Ringman Campfire Ranger
Ringman Campfire Ranger Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 28,847 Grants Pass,OR	16bore, Quote If that list of skullphucked schit impresses you, have at it....... You're not pleased with the introduction of temperature stable or copper reducing powders? "Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11327575 07/24/16
Joined: Oct 2002 Posts: 96,121 S Steelhead Campfire Oracle
Steelhead Campfire Oracle S Joined: Oct 2002 Posts: 96,121	Originally Posted by 16bore Originally Posted by MILES58 This has got to be one of the dumbest questions I have seen on the board. How old are the spiffy little rimfire 17s? How old is the .204? How old are the Enduron powders like 4451? How old are copper monos? How many years have we had factory ammo that across the board shot as accurately and hand loads and faster? How many years have we had out of the box rifle that consistently shot MOA groups without a lot of screwing around? And that very brief list doesn't address figuring out how to use things together like Blue Dot and light Hornet bullets in .223s as UBER performing replacements for .22 lr ammo that is hard/impossible to find. The improved design and manufacturing processes have given us incredible glass at very reasonable prices. Even blister pack scopes are way ahead of much of the scopes not so long ago. We are living through the most productive time for improvement to the tools of our sport. If that list of skullphucked schit impresses you, have at it....... Then obviously you've hit the wall too. Stupid is never not funny. "Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? BobinNH #11327889 07/24/16
Joined: Nov 2011 Posts: 30,949 Colorado A antelope_sniper Campfire 'Bwana
antelope_sniper Campfire 'Bwana A Joined: Nov 2011 Posts: 30,949 Colorado	Originally Posted by BobinNH Originally Posted by 16bore Or is it just me? All trends have been toward hitting stuff further away,and using technology to make it easier for shooters. That's been going on since Speer thrower vs. Bow. And everyone knows the invention of the Crossbow was so unethical. You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it. You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11327894 07/24/16
Joined: Nov 2011 Posts: 30,949 Colorado A antelope_sniper Campfire 'Bwana
antelope_sniper Campfire 'Bwana A Joined: Nov 2011 Posts: 30,949 Colorado	Originally Posted by 16bore Originally Posted by MILES58 This has got to be one of the dumbest questions I have seen on the board. How old are the spiffy little rimfire 17s? How old is the .204? How old are the Enduron powders like 4451? How old are copper monos? How many years have we had factory ammo that across the board shot as accurately and hand loads and faster? How many years have we had out of the box rifle that consistently shot MOA groups without a lot of screwing around? And that very brief list doesn't address figuring out how to use things together like Blue Dot and light Hornet bullets in .223s as UBER performing replacements for .22 lr ammo that is hard/impossible to find. The improved design and manufacturing processes have given us incredible glass at very reasonable prices. Even blister pack scopes are way ahead of much of the scopes not so long ago. We are living through the most productive time for improvement to the tools of our sport. If that list of skullphucked schit impresses you, have at it....... He's still pissed about that "new fangled" Long Bow. You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it. You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? antelope_sniper #11327942 07/24/16
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 35,900 B BobinNH Campfire 'Bwana
BobinNH Campfire 'Bwana B Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 35,900	Originally Posted by antelope_sniper Originally Posted by BobinNH Originally Posted by 16bore Or is it just me? All trends have been toward hitting stuff further away,and using technology to make it easier for shooters. That's been going on since Speer thrower vs. Bow. And everyone knows the invention of the Crossbow was so unethical. I know. It will continue. Remote control is next. The 280 Remington is overbore. The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11327959 07/24/16
Joined: Dec 2013 Posts: 23,686 western VA J jackmountain Campfire Ranger
jackmountain Campfire Ranger J Joined: Dec 2013 Posts: 23,686 western VA	The rifle is a tool. The time in the woods is the important thing to me. Life gets hectic, yours especially so, according to some of your posts. The more hours spent in solitude chasing my quarry the better it is for my peace of mind. Nice to get away from all the obsessing over minute differences in ballistics, especially at the ranges we hunt in Virginia, and just hunt. If it comes to remote controlled I'll give up. Always enjoyed the hunt more than the killing. The killing has always been just a necessity whether in the woods or on the farm. I glean no pleasure from the act. Last edited by jackmountain; 07/24/16.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? MILES58 #11328045 07/24/16
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 20,808 outside the burgh B battue Campfire Ranger
battue Campfire Ranger B Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 20,808 outside the burgh	Originally Posted by MILES58 And that very brief list doesn't address figuring out how to use things together like Blue Dot and light Hornet bullets in .223s as UBER performing replacements for .22 lr ammo that is hard/impossible to find. A little off topic but in a store yesterday to pickup the Grandson a kids fishing rod. I have more than enough .22lr, but asked about them and was told they currently have a buy one get another at 50% off. Asked if there was a limit and was told bring your truck around back and I can give you more than you probably want. Last edited by battue; 07/24/16. laissez les bons temps rouler

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11328178 07/24/16
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 12,651 6491 Feet Above Sea Level Coyote_Hunter Campfire Outfitter
Coyote_Hunter Campfire Outfitter Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 12,651 6491 Feet Above Sea Level	Seems to me there haven't been any really revolutionary advancements in over 100 years. The .30-06 and commercialized Mauser action designs still reign supreme. Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE! No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's. A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11328233 07/24/16
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 43,859 Hi-Line SamOlson Campfire 'Bwana
SamOlson Campfire 'Bwana Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 43,859 Hi-Line	Few months ago I ordered a keg of IMR 4451 just because it has been reported to be right up there with, if not better than, H4350/4831 in regards to temp insensitivity. Not sure how long they've been around but I also appreciate nickel plated #5's. Until I bite down on one anyway. We are pretty frikken spoiled when it comes to all this chit.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11328249 07/24/16
Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 96,040 Southern New Mexico E elkhunternm Campfire Oracle
elkhunternm Campfire Oracle E Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 96,040 Southern New Mexico	Lets see,Nosler Partitions,Swift A-Frame,Barnes X. Hodgdon Extreme and other temp insensitive powders. No more fogging of scopes,better lenses,better tracking. Synthetic stocks,better metal finishes i.e. more rust resistant. And is just what I came up with in a few minutes. Most of those were done in the last 20 years. Last edited by elkhunternm; 07/24/16. Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard Ken

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11328271 07/24/16
Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 96,040 Southern New Mexico E elkhunternm Campfire Oracle
elkhunternm Campfire Oracle E Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 96,040 Southern New Mexico	Bitterroot Bonded Core,Trophy Bonded Bullets,Woodleigh bullets,North Fork bullets, Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard Ken

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? Ringman #11328276 07/24/16
Joined: Nov 2013 Posts: 28,742 West of the Blue Ridge Pappy348 Campfire Ranger
Pappy348 Campfire Ranger Joined: Nov 2013 Posts: 28,742 West of the Blue Ridge	Originally Posted by Ringman Pappy348, Quote I don't see a whole lot of room for improvement for hunting rifles without compromising our sporting ethics. This doesn't make any sense to me. For me lighter is better. I purchased a titanium action; an improvement. To go with that I purchased a carbon fiber barrel; an improvement. To go with that I purchased a Kevlar stock and a micro-cell recoil pad to save a few ounces; both improvements. When I was young I carried an eleven pound rifle. Now that I'm in my seventies I carry a seven pound rifle. We've been killing animals with way more technology than the animals have for generations. What does it have to do with ethics? Those are incremental improvements that don't have much, if any impact how we hunt or make it easier to connect, they just make it easier for you to drag your old, wrinkly azz around in the woods. Light, handy rifles have been around forever. I was thinking about stuff that actually takes over some of the stuff we do like holding and squeezing. The rifles, ammo and sights we have already let us take shots and make clean kills, if we have the skill, at ranges beyond what can or should be characterized as "hunting". What fresh Hell is this?

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11328654 07/24/16
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 12,651 6491 Feet Above Sea Level Coyote_Hunter Campfire Outfitter
Coyote_Hunter Campfire Outfitter Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 12,651 6491 Feet Above Sea Level	No big game animal I've ever taken couldn't have been taken with a .30-06 or even a 7x57. Rifles, powders, bullets and scopes have improved over the last 100 years plus but the most important changes for me have been elsewhere. I don't have a horse, I have a bunch of them. They all live under the hood of my 4x4 truck that takes me from the home turf to the hunting grounds in a matter of hours, trips that would take days by horse. Before I leave home I use my home computer, the internet and Google Earth to learn or review the terrain and fauna of the country I will be hunting. I also download the latest maps to my GPS and cell phone so I not only have electronic moving maps showing my current location but also land owner information. If I get hurt I can use my Delorme InReach emergency beacon to summon help via the Iridium satellite system. It also sends out a beaconing signal which allows my family to track me via a web page displaying a map of my travels and exact location. When I'm out of cell phone coverage my family rests easier knowing I made it back to camp. It's good to be living in the 'good old days'. Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE! No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's. A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? BobinNH #11328762 07/24/16
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 4,586 Northern Ca S sidepass Campfire Tracker
sidepass Campfire Tracker S Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 4,586 Northern Ca	I've seen a couple of 100 yard bow shots. Hopefully never again. However when some see these advertisements we will see more lost animals. Never take life to seriously, after all ,no one gets out of it alive.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? Pappy348 #11328842 07/24/16
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 28,847 Grants Pass,OR Ringman Campfire Ranger
Ringman Campfire Ranger Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 28,847 Grants Pass,OR	Pappy348, Quote The rifles, ammo and sights we have already let us take shots and make clean kills, if we have the skill, at ranges beyond what can or should be characterized as "hunting". Who set you up as the arbiter of what is not hunting? "Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11328955 07/24/16
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 17,304 Durham, CA Higginez Campfire Ranger
Higginez Campfire Ranger Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 17,304 Durham, CA	If the industry starts releasing new cartridges set up to win like the 6.5 Creedmoor, we are in for some serious growth. If they can get twist rate, throating and mag box length right on new stuff, it could very well be a new era. Won't happen though. Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again! Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? Ringman #11329078 07/24/16
Joined: Nov 2013 Posts: 28,742 West of the Blue Ridge Pappy348 Campfire Ranger
Pappy348 Campfire Ranger Joined: Nov 2013 Posts: 28,742 West of the Blue Ridge	Originally Posted by Ringman Pappy348, Quote The rifles, ammo and sights we have already let us take shots and make clean kills, if we have the skill, at ranges beyond what can or should be characterized as "hunting". Who set you up as the arbiter of what is not hunting? Why I did, of course. What fresh Hell is this?

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? Steelhead #11329080 07/24/16
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 17,258 The Land of Cotton GeoW Campfire Ranger
GeoW Campfire Ranger Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 17,258 The Land of Cotton	Originally Posted by Steelhead Originally Posted by 16bore Originally Posted by MILES58 This has got to be one of the dumbest questions I have seen on the board. How old are the spiffy little rimfire 17s? How old is the .204? How old are the Enduron powders like 4451? How old are copper monos? How many years have we had factory ammo that across the board shot as accurately and hand loads and faster? How many years have we had out of the box rifle that consistently shot MOA groups without a lot of screwing around? And that very brief list doesn't address figuring out how to use things together like Blue Dot and light Hornet bullets in .223s as UBER performing replacements for .22 lr ammo that is hard/impossible to find. The improved design and manufacturing processes have given us incredible glass at very reasonable prices. Even blister pack scopes are way ahead of much of the scopes not so long ago. We are living through the most productive time for improvement to the tools of our sport. If that list of skullphucked schit impresses you, have at it....... Then obviously you've hit the wall too. Stupid is never not funny. Priceless.. "I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson GeoW, The "Unwoke" ...Let's go Brandon! "A Well Regulated Militia" Life Member

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11329093 07/24/16
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 33,687 Either Texas or Idaho E EdM Campfire 'Bwana
EdM Campfire 'Bwana E Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 33,687 Either Texas or Idaho	I have not seen a new thing necessary for decades. Conduct is the best proof of character.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? moosemike #11329293 07/24/16
Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 624 O OlongJohnson Campfire Regular
OlongJohnson Campfire Regular O Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 624	Originally Posted by moosemike Yes. Hunters are becoming less experimental and more conservative. Wonder how much of that is demographics. As people continue the century-old movement away from the country, into the city, we are losing the young people who hunt as a way of life. It's more and more the older folk, who will eventually age out, and hunters will be fewer, more of them regarding it as a novelty, like a technical challenge or faddish sport, rather than just something that they do simply because they don't know not doing it.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? GeoW #11329523 07/24/16
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 17,927 1 16bore OP Campfire Ranger
OP 16bore Campfire Ranger 1 Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 17,927	Originally Posted by GeoW Originally Posted by Steelhead Originally Posted by 16bore Originally Posted by MILES58 This has got to be one of the dumbest questions I have seen on the board. How old are the spiffy little rimfire 17s? How old is the .204? How old are the Enduron powders like 4451? How old are copper monos? How many years have we had factory ammo that across the board shot as accurately and hand loads and faster? How many years have we had out of the box rifle that consistently shot MOA groups without a lot of screwing around? And that very brief list doesn't address figuring out how to use things together like Blue Dot and light Hornet bullets in .223s as UBER performing replacements for .22 lr ammo that is hard/impossible to find. The improved design and manufacturing processes have given us incredible glass at very reasonable prices. Even blister pack scopes are way ahead of much of the scopes not so long ago. We are living through the most productive time for improvement to the tools of our sport. If that list of skullphucked schit impresses you, have at it....... Then obviously you've hit the wall too. Stupid is never not funny. Priceless.. Sucker fishing is "never not funny"

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? EdM #11329633 07/25/16
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,481 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter
Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,481 Calgary, AB, Canada	Originally Posted by EdM I have not seen a new thing necessary for decades. Just because a new product or development is unnecessary, doesn't mean it isn't an improvement or upgrade. Seems hunters were killing just fine even before smokeless powder was invented...

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? EdM #11330329 07/25/16
Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 5,735 Minnesota M MILES58 Campfire Tracker
MILES58 Campfire Tracker M Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 5,735 Minnesota	Originally Posted by EdM I have not seen a new thing necessary for decades. I suppose it matters how you define necessary. I started loading in 1956. Milsurp powder, bullets that wouldn't even make good seconds in today's market, rifles that were as likely to shoot 3-4 MOA as anything, scopes that still didn't have constantly centered crosshairs, glass that wouldn't measure up well against $39.95 blister pack trash, loading manuals that were wildly optimistic about velocities, powders with large enough lot to lot variations that working up a load all over again when you got a new lot was not a bad idea, Just off the top of my head. For a number of years now I have picked and chosen the deer I shoot. I shoot them close up with speed still so high that it would have probably blown up comparable weight bullets. I shoot them far away enough that bullets heavy enough not to have blown up at 25 feet would have been an issue at range. I shoot them under light conditions that scopes I started hunting with would not have been able to handle. kill deer at 80 degrees and well below zero. The powders I use need to help me do that, not make it harder. I have never lost a deer I put the first bullet into. With the tools I have available today, I have much more freedom to pick and CHOOSE, to hunt under adverse conditions and to make better shots at whatever range I CHOOSE and do a much better job killing than I could in decades past.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11331082 07/25/16
Joined: Mar 2012 Posts: 337 SW PA J JustinL1 Campfire Member
JustinL1 Campfire Member J Joined: Mar 2012 Posts: 337 SW PA	Wouldn't it be crazy if in a few years they didn't have muzzleloader seasons- instead it's a "Bring Grandpa's .30-06 out to hunt" season? I'd kind of like that! Heal quickly and don't scar.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? JustinL1 #11333891 07/26/16
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,936 Texas kenjs1 Campfire Outfitter
kenjs1 Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,936 Texas	I think I get the OP question. what is left for us? We now have tough ballistic tips used by folks who in the past would not have touched them, tons of powders to choose from, great lubes & oils & cheap effortless cleaning products, light recoiling rifles that can be used for Long Distance, smaller cartridges capable of killing bigger game more cleanly, terrific synthetic pillar bedded stocks with bedding blocks already in them, inexpensive rifle scopes that are bright as heck and hold up more than well enough for the box-a-year + shooter, and every single company has made their own low cost Savage clone that seem to shoot better than most of the high dollar stuff- or most things produced just a decade or two ago. Add to that electronic varmint calls and decoys, quick pop up blinds and yosemite binoculars. Winchester is making good products again by most accounts. Great boots, sox, waterproof gear and a crazy amount of camo options. Life is good. So I think I understand what he is saying. Of course we also have been introduced to butt-outs, barrel de-resonators, scent sticks and cough silencers. For me, one welcome area getting R and D attention for lower cost options are good roof binoculars. But no way am I starting another discussion on that front!!!!!! When a country is well governed, poverty and a mean condition are something to be ashamed of. When a country is ill governed, riches and honors are something to be ashamed of . Confucius

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? kenjs1 #11386921 08/20/16
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,438 South Florida Homesteader Campfire Regular
Homesteader Campfire Regular Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,438 South Florida	kenjs1 - WOW, after 5 pages of this post I figure it's time to forget rifles, ammo, scopes, technology and go back to the good 'ol sling-shot! Homesteader

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? elkhunternm #11386942 08/20/16
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 26,494 Metairie, LA PaulBarnard Campfire Ranger
PaulBarnard Campfire Ranger Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 26,494 Metairie, LA	Originally Posted by elkhunternm Bitterroot Bonded Core,Trophy Bonded Bullets,Woodleigh bullets,North Fork bullets, Where can you buy Trophy Bonded bullets?

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? BobinNH #11387560 08/21/16
Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 48,010 Battle Born B bsa1917hunter Campfire 'Bwana
bsa1917hunter Campfire 'Bwana B Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 48,010 Battle Born	Originally Posted by BobinNH Originally Posted by antelope_sniper Originally Posted by BobinNH Originally Posted by 16bore Or is it just me? All trends have been toward hitting stuff further away,and using technology to make it easier for shooters. That's been going on since Speer thrower vs. Bow. And everyone knows the invention of the Crossbow was so unethical. I know. It will continue. Remote control is next. I'm mounting my rifle on a drone this weekend. I'm wondering if it will handle the recoil of a 375 H&H though... Originally Posted by raybass I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. Originally Posted by Pharmseller You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? bsa1917hunter #11387983 08/21/16
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 35,900 B BobinNH Campfire 'Bwana
BobinNH Campfire 'Bwana B Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 35,900	Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter Originally Posted by BobinNH Originally Posted by antelope_sniper Originally Posted by BobinNH Originally Posted by 16bore Or is it just me? All trends have been toward hitting stuff further away,and using technology to make it easier for shooters. That's been going on since Speer thrower vs. Bow. And everyone knows the invention of the Crossbow was so unethical. I know. It will continue. Remote control is next. I'm mounting my rifle on a drone this weekend. I'm wondering if it will handle the recoil of a 375 H&H though... Don't laugh....there are many who'd do it in a heartbeat. The 280 Remington is overbore. The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11388033 08/21/16
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 930 South Central Kansas 6 65X54 Campfire Regular
65X54 Campfire Regular 6 Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 930 South Central Kansas	I'm just trying to get solenoid switch to the trigger...

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? EdM #11388043 08/21/16
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 46,021 Colorado S smokepole Campfire 'Bwana
smokepole Campfire 'Bwana S Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 46,021 Colorado	Originally Posted by EdM I have not seen a new thing necessary for decades. Not "necessary" but therein lies the rub. Whether we've hit the wall has as much to do with the consumers as the products. If people will pay for new products, we'll keep on seeing them, and we will. The improvements may be more incremental than revolutionary, but they're improvements nonetheless. And they matter more to a lot of shooters today than they did 50 years ago when a 30-30 and a five year-old box of Corelokts was all most people found "necessary." A wise man is frequently humbled.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11388430 08/21/16
Joined: May 2014 Posts: 10,407 NE South Dakota Bugger Campfire Outfitter
Bugger Campfire Outfitter Joined: May 2014 Posts: 10,407 NE South Dakota	They did about 60 years ago I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11388469 08/21/16
Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 48,010 Battle Born B bsa1917hunter Campfire 'Bwana
bsa1917hunter Campfire 'Bwana B Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 48,010 Battle Born	How do I teach my drone to run the bolt???? Reading the manual here. Ah, this chit is confusing... Originally Posted by raybass I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. Originally Posted by Pharmseller You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? Bugger #11388540 08/21/16
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 46,021 Colorado S smokepole Campfire 'Bwana
smokepole Campfire 'Bwana S Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 46,021 Colorado	Originally Posted by Bugger They did about 60 years ago That's right. All my gear is circa 1960. Especially scopes, that was the heyday. A wise man is frequently humbled.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 65X54 #11388547 08/21/16
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 35,900 B BobinNH Campfire 'Bwana
BobinNH Campfire 'Bwana B Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 35,900	Originally Posted by 65X54 I'm just trying to get solenoid switch to the trigger... 6.5 I bet you could find a way to do it.... The 280 Remington is overbore. The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11388861 08/21/16
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 14,807 Savage_99 Campfire Outfitter
Savage_99 Campfire Outfitter Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 14,807	There is an ongoing attack on lead used in bullets. This internet has taken over from print and recorded media. All guns should be locked up when not in use!

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? Savage_99 #11389019 08/21/16
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 46,021 Colorado S smokepole Campfire 'Bwana
smokepole Campfire 'Bwana S Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 46,021 Colorado	The Oracle has spoken. A wise man is frequently humbled.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11389049 08/21/16
Joined: May 2016 Posts: 1,408 South eastern BC. C comerade Campfire Regular
comerade Campfire Regular C Joined: May 2016 Posts: 1,408 South eastern BC.	I like the good improvement in hunting bullets that I use.It has allowed us to use a smaller chamberings for the same effectiveness on game.This allows for a more portable firearm and it can turn your 7x57 into giant killer imo.Swift,Barnes etc are very tenacious and so outperform the old cup and core bullets on large game (elk).It doesn't however improved your offhand shooting and nearly nobody practices that.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? comerade #11389068 08/21/16
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 35,900 B BobinNH Campfire 'Bwana
BobinNH Campfire 'Bwana B Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 35,900	Originally Posted by comerade I like the good improvement in hunting bullets that I use.It has allowed us to use a smaller chamberings for the same effectiveness on game.This allows for a more portable firearm and it can turn your 7x57 into giant killer imo.Swift,Barnes etc are very tenacious and so outperform the old cup and core bullets on large game (elk).It doesn't however improved your offhand shooting and nearly nobody practices that. Well this is interesting considering we've had the Nosler Partition since about 1945-1950.which killed about everything world wide from that point on,and from such anemic cartridges as the 270 and 7x57 as well...... So if you had a brain and were heads up from 1950 on, you didn't have to use a C&C bullet if you didn't want. I am amused by those who think the use of dinky cartridges for BG hunting is some kind of recent phenomenon.In fact it's been going on for years,way back to the turn of the last century. Anyone remember Bell and all those elephants? And Bitterroots and succeeding bonded bullets like Swift and TBBC have been around since the late 60's to early 70's. These are fully as good as the best out there today from a terminal standpoint on the biggest, and toughest animals on the planet. So I have a hard time discerning when the Good Old Days ended and the New Age began. (?). I think it depends on when you started hunting and how much attention you paid. If your head was stuck up your ass in the 1980's you mighta missed a major phase of the whole bullet development thing. Not that things aren't great today in the bullet department,but I have never seen anyone handicapped with the best of what was available 30-40 years ago. You just have more choices today and more to get confused about. You can tell by all the "which bullet should I use?" threads. The 280 Remington is overbore. The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? BobinNH #11389340 08/21/16
Joined: Nov 2013 Posts: 28,742 West of the Blue Ridge Pappy348 Campfire Ranger
Pappy348 Campfire Ranger Joined: Nov 2013 Posts: 28,742 West of the Blue Ridge	Hate speech! (aka truth) Gotta get to my safe space, pronto. What fresh Hell is this?

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? Pappy348 #11389383 08/21/16
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 35,900 B BobinNH Campfire 'Bwana
BobinNH Campfire 'Bwana B Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 35,900	Originally Posted by Pappy348 Hate speech! (aka truth) Gotta get to my safe space, pronto. Pappy I guess it's human nature for people to think all the great advancements took place only since they started paying attention....which mighta been yesterday or last year. Which is why history of advancements is important. I tend to view these things as an ongoing continuum, instead of taking place in the time frame of people's personal reference. Some of the stuff you read on here you'd think everything is brand new just because someone recently figured it out.... The 280 Remington is overbore. The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? BobinNH #11389430 08/21/16
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 46,021 Colorado S smokepole Campfire 'Bwana
smokepole Campfire 'Bwana S Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 46,021 Colorado	Originally Posted by BobinNH Originally Posted by comerade I like the good improvement in hunting bullets that I use.It has allowed us to use a smaller chamberings for the same effectiveness on game.This allows for a more portable firearm and it can turn your 7x57 into giant killer imo.Swift,Barnes etc are very tenacious and so outperform the old cup and core bullets on large game (elk).It doesn't however improved your offhand shooting and nearly nobody practices that. Well this is interesting considering we've had the Nosler Partition since about 1945-1950.which killed about everything world wide from that point on,and from such anemic cartridges as the 270 and 7x57 as well...... So if you had a brain and were heads up from 1950 on, you didn't have to use a C&C bullet if you didn't want. I am amused by those who think the use of dinky cartridges for BG hunting is some kind of recent phenomenon.In fact it's been going on for years,way back to the turn of the last century. Anyone remember Bell and all those elephants? And Bitterroots and succeeding bonded bullets like Swift and TBBC have been around since the late 60's to early 70's. These are fully as good as the best out there today from a terminal standpoint on the biggest, and toughest animals on the planet. So I have a hard time discerning when the Good Old Days ended and the New Age began. (?). I think it depends on when you started hunting and how much attention you paid. If your head was stuck up your ass in the 1980's you mighta missed a major phase of the whole bullet development thing. Not that things aren't great today in the bullet department,but I have never seen anyone handicapped with the best of what was available 30-40 years ago. You just have more choices today and more to get confused about. You can tell by all the "which bullet should I use?" threads. Wow. I don't use monometals much, but from what I can tell a lot of guys have dropped down in bullet weight to get higher velocities, flatter trajectories and very good terminal performance. If the Partition was the be-all end-all, Barnes Bullets wouldn't exist. A wise man is frequently humbled.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? BobinNH #11389445 08/21/16
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 60,075 Banana Belt, Montana M Mule Deer Campfire Kahuna
Mule Deer Campfire Kahuna M Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 60,075 Banana Belt, Montana	There were some decent bullets even before John Nosler started selling Partitions commercially in 1948. The original Core-Lokts were pretty tough, and the Peters Inner-Belted was apparently even better, since it was sort of a semi-Partition. But because Nosler Partitions were a LOT more expensive than other bullets available for handloading (including the also-new Hornadys, Sierras and Speers) most hunters didn't become aware of their advantages until Partitions started appearing in factory ammunition--because not as many hunters handloaded back then. Even then the word didn't get out much because Weatherby was the first company to load Partitions in their factory stuff, and both Weatherby rifles and ammo were expensive. Eventually Federal started loading Partitions in some common cartridges, and in 1978 Bob Hagel published his book on handloads for American hunting, touting the Partition and Bitterroot for larger big game. That's when more hunters really started becoming aware of "premium" bullet performance, and more premiums showed up. Even the Barnes X appeared in the late 1980's, but the early models had real problems, which is why many shooters didn't discover the "magic" of monometals until the TSX break-through in the early 2000's. Nowadays, of course, the pendulum often swings the other way: Many hunters don't believe big game (even small whitetails) can be killed "efficiently" with anything other than a monometal bullet, while others just as firmly believe in super-high ballistic coefficient bullets and twirling the elevation knob. It sometimes makes me wonder how in hell hunters killed any sort of big game before the year 2000. “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? Mule Deer #11389494 08/21/16
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 46,021 Colorado S smokepole Campfire 'Bwana
smokepole Campfire 'Bwana S Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 46,021 Colorado	Originally Posted by Mule Deer Nowadays, of course, the pendulum often swings the other way: Many hunters don't believe big game (even small whitetails) can be killed "efficiently" with anything other than a monometal bullet, while others just as firmly believe in super-high ballistic coefficient bullets and twirling the elevation knob. It sometimes makes me wonder how in hell hunters killed any sort of big game before the year 2000. And entirely missing from the discussion is bullet placement. Which seems irrelevant in a discussion of which bullet to use, until you recognize that some very savvy hunters use "target bullets" like the Scenar for better bullet placement. A wise man is frequently humbled.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? Mule Deer #11389500 08/21/16
Joined: Nov 2013 Posts: 28,742 West of the Blue Ridge Pappy348 Campfire Ranger
Pappy348 Campfire Ranger Joined: Nov 2013 Posts: 28,742 West of the Blue Ridge	Not to mention all those fancy German bullets I just dug out my (second) copy of The Complete Book of Rifles and Shotguns and turned to the page with the photo of all the sectioned bullets. I'd say things weren't all that bad way back when, from a killing-power standpoint at least. I remember reading (not sure exactly where) Old Jack's description of the original 130gr bullet for the .270. Seems like they got it pretty much right from the get-go with that one. Wonder if anybody's got some of those lying around? What fresh Hell is this?

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11389606 08/22/16
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 23,077 Annapolis, Md. G gnoahhh Campfire Ranger
gnoahhh Campfire Ranger G Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 23,077 Annapolis, Md.	I like "vintage" stuff because I'm a nostalgic kind of guy. I do it because it's my choice, and I recognize that there's a helluva lot of new(er) gear out there that outstrips my stuff by a long shot. So be it. I will admire/appreciate new technology, and like to learn of it, but in the end I adopt that which fits my needs and leave the rest to those whose needs are best fulfilled with it. But in the end, we all benefit from technological advancements, whether we know it or not. "You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? gnoahhh #11389622 08/22/16
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 46,021 Colorado S smokepole Campfire 'Bwana
smokepole Campfire 'Bwana S Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 46,021 Colorado	Dang, a curmudgeon with perspective, how'd that happen? A wise man is frequently humbled.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? smokepole #11389719 08/22/16
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 35,900 B BobinNH Campfire 'Bwana
BobinNH Campfire 'Bwana B Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 35,900	Originally Posted by smokepole Wow. I don't use monometals much, but from what I can tell a lot of guys have dropped down in bullet weight to get higher velocities, flatter trajectories and very good terminal performance. If the Partition was the be-all end-all, Barnes Bullets wouldn't exist. Who needs Barnes? If you look back in Nosler's advertising of the day(likely further back than most on here are aware) ,one of the things the advertising promoted was the ability to drop down in bullet weight,obtain higher velocity and flatter trajectory,,and get the same or better penetration. The same was said about the Bitterroot as more folks came to use them but that number was never large....more of a cult following because you just could not get them.But they led directly to Swifts, TBBC, and Northforks of today. They also allowed you to drop bullet weight,get more velocity and flatter trajectory and were deadly....based on what I've seen of both, quicker killers than Barnes. I am not the only one who thinks that way.....friends who have extensive experience with both, agree. Folks familiar with them know this. You can live a long, happy and successful hunting life and never use a Barnes. Actually Id take a NF over anything else out there today for the biggest stuff,before I'd grab a Barnes. The 280 Remington is overbore. The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? BobinNH #11389735 08/22/16
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 46,021 Colorado S smokepole Campfire 'Bwana
smokepole Campfire 'Bwana S Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 46,021 Colorado	Originally Posted by BobinNH You can live a long, happy and successful hunting life and never use a Barnes. Yes, I understand. As I said earlier, I don't use them. And the very same thing can be said about the Partition, A-Frame, or any other bullet for that matter. A wise man is frequently humbled.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? Mule Deer #11389794 08/22/16
Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 13,921 PA moosemike Campfire Outfitter
moosemike Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 13,921 PA	Originally Posted by Mule Deer There were some decent bullets even before John Nosler started selling Partitions commercially in 1948. The original Core-Lokts were pretty tough, and the Peters Inner-Belted was apparently even better, since it was sort of a semi-Partition. But because Nosler Partitions were a LOT more expensive than other bullets available for handloading (including the also-new Hornadys, Sierras and Speers) most hunters didn't become aware of their advantages until Partitions started appearing in factory ammunition--because not as many hunters handloaded back then. Even then the word didn't get out much because Weatherby was the first company to load Partitions in their factory stuff, and both Weatherby rifles and ammo were expensive. Eventually Federal started loading Partitions in some common cartridges, and in 1978 Bob Hagel published his book on handloads for American hunting, touting the Partition and Bitterroot for larger big game. That's when more hunters really started becoming aware of "premium" bullet performance, and more premiums showed up. Even the Barnes X appeared in the late 1980's, but the early models had real problems, which is why many shooters didn't discover the "magic" of monometals until the TSX break-through in the early 2000's. Nowadays, of course, the pendulum often swings the other way: Many hunters don't believe big game (even small whitetails) can be killed "efficiently" with anything other than a monometal bullet, while others just as firmly believe in super-high ballistic coefficient bullets and twirling the elevation knob. It sometimes makes me wonder how in hell hunters killed any sort of big game before the year 2000. From what I read of the old writers the Peters Inner Belted was one whale of a bullet. Substantially better than the very good Core-Lokt for penetration.

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11389818 08/22/16
Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 14,408 R rem141r Campfire Outfitter
rem141r Campfire Outfitter R Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 14,408	we've barely touched the + 1/2" market so i'm thinking theres still a lot of room for growth. i vote for the .750 CB cap. My diploma is a DD214

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11390804 08/22/16
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 56,088 In the Swamps DigitalDan Campfire Kahuna
DigitalDan Campfire Kahuna Joined: May 2004 Posts: 56,088 In the Swamps	I keep hoping CCI will start loading Partitions in their CB short ammo so I can kill pigs deader. I'm patient but the years are creeping up on me, so I hope they do it soon. I am..........disturbed. Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? DigitalDan #11390814 08/22/16
Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 96,040 Southern New Mexico E elkhunternm Campfire Oracle
elkhunternm Campfire Oracle E Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 96,040 Southern New Mexico	Originally Posted by DigitalDan I keep hoping CCI will start loading Partitions in their CB short ammo so I can kill pigs deader. I'm patient but the years are creeping up on me, so I hope they do it soon. Over-penetration. Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard Ken

Re: Have rifles, chamberings, scopes, and bullets finally hit the wall? 16bore #11394651 08/24/16
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 32,312 Wetter'n Oregon Jeff_O Campfire 'Bwana
Jeff_O Campfire 'Bwana Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 32,312 Wetter'n Oregon	The portable, reliable, inexpensive and easily-procured laser rangefinder was a huge step forward, and in fact was the necessary piece of gear to get the whole long range hunting thing up and rolling like it is now. The CENTER will hold. Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two FÜCK PUTIN!

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