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All:

Ok - not trying to stir the pot with some needless hyperbole , however.....

Realizing that most mechanical devices either fail early (due to defects, etc) or fail late due to wear or fatigue, at what point would you typically consider a riflescope to be out of the first "honeymoon" phase.

Naturally, there are a huge number or variables (no pun intended) here, but lets say your typical good quality 3-9x40 on a medium-ish kicker, lets say a 30-06 or 300 Win Mag.

My inclination is to say that it would be around 100-150 rounds.

What do you all think?

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Seems to me, scope construction varies so widely that you need to narrow the question. 150 rounds might be half the useful life of a Barska. It might serve to weed out the "early curve" failures with, say, Leupolds. Doubt it leaves an impression on a Nightforce or other equally stout scopes.


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Jeff - Okay fair enough. How about as a baseline we say something like a VX-2 or VX-3i.

I am thinking a good solid $250-$400 scope of whatever flavor.

Your point about the Barska is well taken.

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This forum needs a poll feature...


Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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117...

I was going to say 64 because 64 is 8 squared...

Last edited by navlav8r; 07/26/16.

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Ok, I take 64 then.


Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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100....though any scopes I ever had crap out did it on the first 20...

Last edited by ingwe; 07/26/16.

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87.3695 is the industry accepted standard as of 6/27/16.........

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Is this set and forget? 20 - 50 rounds.

Heavy Recoil levels will show up these failures much more quickly.
A 300 mag with 180s or 200s is about the start of that punishment.

Or, is it more of a turret twirling, return to zero repeatably scenario ?

This is like the statistical merits of measuring accuracy with 3, 4 or 5 shot groups.

Last edited by 338Rules; 07/26/16. Reason: fumble fingered typing
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They are all reliable right up until they fail. That is why I make it a practice to have alternatives. For example, a scope in hand-detachable mounts, with irons which are zeroed, so I can take it off if it has a problem, and keep hunting; a spare scope or rifle in camp (or on hand, if competing), so I can change over.

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Swaro variable...about 80 rounds.

Zeiss variable....about the same.

Leupold variable(s).....lets say 50-500. Sort of a WAG because there have been a few.

One M8 4X Leupold.......about 4000 rounds through 300,338 and 35 caliber magnums.




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Originally Posted by 2muchgun
87.3695 is the industry accepted standard as of 6/27/16.........


Could you please be more precise Mr. Spock?


grin


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Originally Posted by BobinNH
Swaro variable...about 80 rounds.

Zeiss variable....about the same.

Leupold variable(s).....lets say 50-500. Sort of a WAG because there have been a few.

One M8 4X Leupold.......about 4000 rounds through 300,338 and 35 caliber magnums.


Long "Honeymoon" for the Swaro and Zeiss at 80 rounds.

with the Leupold 50 is definitely "Honeymoon", but 500 is something more.
Given that you have experience with several Leupolds, presumably of various models, it is probably just the nature of these sorts of failures. Good that they offer such a fine warranty.

Interesting thread, most manufacturers probably wouldn't want to share their CS warranty statistics unless they reflect positively on their brand.

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338: The Zeiss showed shifts in POI between power changes,observed on the range.It got delivered to Zeiss who confirmed the problem.

The Swaro was part of an Alberta snafu on a hunt. It behaved in strange ways but also shifted POI between power changes and other stuff....weird.


There have been a few Leopold variables,IIRC 2 2,5-8's, two 1.5-5X, and one 1.75-6. Round count varied. IIRC a 375 H&H ate three of them.




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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My third S&B, a 4x Classic, refused to go on the honeymoon. Barely got it outside the church door--15 rounds! 😜 😜

Last edited by George_De_Vries_3rd; 07/27/16.
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365. You have to shoot 1 shot per day. After a full year, if it's still holding zero and tracking well, It's proven... whistle


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I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
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Depending on the recoil abuse of the weapon and whether you spin the turrets or not.


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Originally Posted by BobinNH
338: The Zeiss showed shifts in POI between power changes,observed on the range.It got delivered to Zeiss who confirmed the problem.

The Swaro was part of an Alberta snafu on a hunt. It behaved in strange ways but also shifted POI between power changes and other stuff....weird.


There have been a few Leopold variables,IIRC 2 2,5-8's, two 1.5-5X, and one 1.75-6. Round count varied. IIRC a 375 H&H ate three of them.


No real experience to draw on with Euro Alpha glass, but the Zeiss almost sounds like too much torque on the rings.

The Swaro sounds like baggage apes - sorry your hunt was snafu'd. Especially since it was in my native Alberta. The weather etc. in November makes it tough enough, without having to resort to belt & suspenders pre-sighted spare scopes in qd mounts.

All these stresses on a scope can be cumulative and subtle .
Recoil is obvious because the shooter experiences it too, but mounting issues like ring torque and alignment have their own quirks to contend with.

Trust but Verify !


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Originally Posted by 338Rules
Originally Posted by BobinNH
338: The Zeiss showed shifts in POI between power changes,observed on the range.It got delivered to Zeiss who confirmed the problem.

The Swaro was part of an Alberta snafu on a hunt. It behaved in strange ways but also shifted POI between power changes and other stuff....weird.


There have been a few Leopold variables,IIRC 2 2,5-8's, two 1.5-5X, and one 1.75-6. Round count varied. IIRC a 375 H&H ate three of them.


No real experience to draw on with Euro Alpha glass, but the Zeiss almost sounds like too much torque on the rings.

The Swaro sounds like baggage apes - sorry your hunt was snafu'd. Especially since it was in my native Alberta. The weather etc. in November makes it tough enough, without having to resort to belt & suspenders pre-sighted spare scopes in qd mounts.

All these stresses on a scope can be cumulative and subtle .
Recoil is obvious because the shooter experiences it too, but mounting issues like ring torque and alignment have their own quirks to contend with.

Trust but Verify !


No not too much stress the rings with the Zeiss. I spoke with Bruce Cavey who was President of Zeiss NA at the time. He had me ship the scope.

His tech guy called and said they had tested the scope here in the states and I was right....it shifted POI between power settings. They returned it to Zeiss over in Europe for analysis and sent me a new scope.

The Zeiss is not the first variable power scope I've seen that shifted POI between power settings....it's more common than you'd think but better today than before.

The Swaro....I think it was defective from the start. I am not the only one to have problems with that particular model.

Leupold variables are.....Leupold variables. I have gotten to the point I that I can't make myself spend the money on them any more. I'd rather buy a fixed 6X than a VX."whatever".




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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