Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles reviving an oil rubbed stock

I have a Kimber 84l classic 06 that is my main hunting rifle, meaning it gets carried a lot around the mountains, I've noticed that the oil finish and sheen on the stock has largely worn off in the last few years and i would like to find a stock treatment that will restore the sheen and impart a little more water resistance without removing the darkening of the wood that shows the character and time I have enjoyed with the rifle.

It has a very nicely figured stock for a classic so i would prefer something that will not detract from that or something that may enhance it. to be clear I'm not looking for a high gloss treatment ala 700bdl, just a nice matte sheen like these rifles typically have factory ala kimber/cooper.

so what do the experts think? wax, oil? both? methods?

I would have to see it to actually give a recommendation. And I am no expert. I have used a number of things including boiled linseed oil, tung oil, Howards Feed n Wax, Birchwood Casey Stock Sheen, and lemon oil, depending on the situation. Try a sample on a different piece of wood and compare.

After dry you can use a paste wax like Minwax or Birchwood Casey or Ren Wax.....

This one is done with Watco Danish Oil. First rifle I ever refinished.

I use watco also

Kimber will tell you all they use is boiled linseed oil. Not true though as they have a varnish component. I suspect they use a linseed oil based "finish" which really means varnish. I use a mix of BLO and shellac ragged on thin to match Kimbers finish. BLO and shellac is the definition of a varnish but looks like oil. Using this technique one cannot tell it from a factory NY Kimber finish.

Some should stick to asking for advice, not giving it! Virtually nothing you said is correct!

Kimber will NOT tell you they use nothing but BLO. They will tell you it is a "hand-rubbed oil" finish. Big difference!!!

Shellac and BLO is a horrible choice in a hunting rifle for a ton of reasons.

A "linseed oil based finish" does NOT mean a varnish.

BLO and shellac is NOT the definition of "varnish."

You will easily be able to tell your finish from the factory finish the first time it rains.


Wow!

A good coat of hard wax (NEVER use car wax!) should do everything you ask for the looks and improve water resistance significantly. Bri-Wax is my favorite in the original formula.

Car waxes contain silicone which will mess with any repairs or touch-ups you try to do later.

How does the Danish oil hold up to moisture from rain or sweat in the summer months? I read it as being an indoor product.

Schitka you sir are wrong but that's never stopped you from posting before.

Oil + shellac is what most early varnishes were made of. Kimber customer service absolutely told me all they use is boiled linseed oil. Not my opinion but fact. Call them and ask.

You are correct BLO and Shellac mixture isn't the most waterproof finish. I believe it to be very similar to what Kimber uses. The factory Kimber finish is not very durable either. The finish I use is an easy maintenance coat and keeps them looking new. You are free to use whatever high tech finish you like.

BLO/Shellac rubbed until tacky is a classic rubbed finish which is also used on all Bark River knife handles unless an oily exotic wood is used in which case it is simply buffed with wax.

I've used BLO/Shellac on axe and hatchet handles for years and it holds up reasonably well.

I really don't know. I've never hunted with it in bad weather. My stainless/synthetic rifles get that duty.

Google is your friend... check a few of your "facts" and get back to me... I took the time to talk to Kimber some time ago. You might want to fact check yourself there first.

Anyone questioning any aspect of my comments is free to ask for links to prove any points...

BLO/shellac is a horrible finish for anything of value with wear or water resistance required. Especially because it is sticky.

It is not very good in moderate rain.

My stuff has had plenty of rain and no spots. And yes varnishes can be formulated in various ways but doesn't change the fact that BLO and shellac is indeed a form of varnish.

You're comparing oil-based and alcohol-based materials when you compare BLO and shellac, generally incompatible materials.

Alcohol and water play together much better than oil and water. Therein is a clue to durability traits.

Agree it's not the most durable finish. The two components are very compatible though and mix easily.

If the only tool you have is a hammer the whole world looks like a nail...

There are literally millions of ways to finish wood. Choosing one of the oldest and worst and mixing it in a difficult way to use with another outdated and poor choice and advocating its use in a place where it will make a difference is funny in a sad way...

You need to look at new tools...

You said it was the definition of varnish and weaseling it to "a form of varnish" might work unless you know it really is not even a form of varnish... keep digging that hole...

No weasel in here. Never said it was the only varnish known to man. It is an early form of varnish. If you don't like it I'm not loosing sleep over it. You hard chargers from the north crack me up. Nothing better to do than constantly pick fights here.

It must hurt being so dense and trying to weasel out of stupid statements...

Your words by cut and paste:
"BLO and shellac is the definition of a varnish but looks like oil."

Your words incorrectly state varnish is by definition BLO and shellac. For example, had you said BLO and Shellac is a varnish by definition you would still be wrong. But you said essentially all varnishes are BLO and shellac.

You clearly do not understand English or finish chemistry or technology and still want to argue.

I am done with you.

I doubt it but hope so. Another thread demolished by Schitka. Carry on.

I've finished/refinished right at 500 stocks.....you are preaching the gospel!

Wow, guess I missed all the excitement.

To an amateur, I may seem like an accomplished woodworker. To the latter, I may seem like an amateur. All I can say is that I have more kinds of wood, and stains, waxes, oils, finishes, woodworking tools, what have you, than I can shake a fist at.

A few points I can make are:

I would not use shellac and BLO on a stock. Ever. Don't know if it is technically a varnish or not and don't care.

Tate's stock looks very nice, but I have the Watco stuff here and I'd not use it on a stock. If I did, I would worry about sealing it somehow, and keeping it sealed. I don't feel it is that durable or that it penetrates that well. I don't do glossy finishes of any type and never will.

Carry on....

A lot of people use BLO to refresh a stock as asked in OP. I do the same but add a few drops of shellac. And yet the world continues to spin on it's axis....

One of the most beautiful stocks I ever saw was on a Pennsylvania long rifle stock a buddy scratch built, maple with the tightest "curl" from stem to stern you ever saw. He used no abrasives- he scraped it smooth with shards of glass. (He said he smashed around a dozen 8x10 pieces of glass in the process of obtaining the correctly shaped shards that he needed for the various cambers on the stock.) The finish: none. He applied untold numbers of coats of paste wax, and rubbed, and rubbed. Now, 25 years later, after follow up waxing and, you guessed it, more rubbing, that stock has taken on a sheen/patina that is so deep you think you can reach in and scoop it out. The wood has turned a pretty shade of honey in the process.

The thing has accounted for dozens of deer- it gets used. He left the barrel and lock bright- no browning/bluing. Those parts have patinized to a dull brown luster from natural rusting... and rubbing. (Remember, a helluva lot of back country-built ML'ers in the 17th/18th/early19th century were left bright when made. We see them as brown today and assume that's how they left the shop.)

Would I advocate such a wood finish for a hunting rifle that will probably see weather? Nope. Not unless I knew the owner and knew he had total devotion to maintaining it properly. Not one in a thousand has that kind of dedication. For them I recommend a barrier finish of some sort, or a plastic stock. My personal stocks are all varnished, rubbed out, and waxed to a dull luster.

I would as soon put shellac in any shape or form on a stock as I would use goat piss.

Well I haven't tried goat piss... but someone better tell Bark River all their knife handles aren't fit for the outdoors. The BR factory tour can be found on youtube.

Not sure what it has to do with it. A knife handle isn't a rifle stock. I have been to BRKT and own at least a half dozen of them.

I stabilize my own wood and have handled up plenty of knives. What I use on it depends. Sometimes a simple paste wax is all you need. Sometimes BLO and paste wax. Sometimes stain and or poly. Shellac is one thing I haven't used on a knife handle.

Would almost seem like using the stain with the poly already in it, which I don't like. But, hey, whatever works. I am just stating what I do/ don't do...

They way I use it, it just makes the BLO dry faster. It's still basically just a BLO coat. If I'm wiping a stock or axe handle for "reviving" as asked in the OP I probably use a teaspoon of BLO with a drop or two of shellac from a dropper. Coat of wax once cured. It's no miracle finish and I'm sure there's better/more durable. Simply stating what I've done and it happens to esthetically match Kimber's factory finish.

FWIW Watco is a mix of oil and varnish. It is pretty, doesn't build a film, and will blotch with exposure to moisture. It's not the worst choice in the world, but there certainly are better. It may be just fine to refresh a factory finish if it is going over the finish, rather that on naked wood. It can't be worse than regular oil. It is an interior wood finish, and furniture that has been finished with it will get rings if you leave a wet glass on it.

If you are looking for a finish from a hardware store, maybe poly that has been rubbed out to a matte finish? Get a wiping poly or thin standard gloss poly to 50% poly 50% mineral spirits and wipe on. It can be done without looking too glossy.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/msds/watco-danish-oil-MSDS.pdf


Section 2 - Composition / Information On Ingredients
Chemical Name CAS Number Weight % Less ThanACGIH TLV-TWA ACGIH TLV-STELOSHA PEL-TWA OSHA PEL-CEILING
Mineral Spirits 8052-41-3 60.0 NE NE 100 ppm NE
aromatic petroleum distillates 64742-95-6 5.0 NE NE N.E. N.E.
Dipropylene Glycol Monomethyl Ether34590-94-8 5.0 100 ppm N.E. N.E. N.E.
Stoddard Solvent 8052-41-3 5.0 100 PPM 100 PPM


While hard to read as it copied and pasted, the list above is the actual ingredient list of Watco Danish Oil, the assumed finish being discussed as Watco because it is their best-known, biggest selling mixture.

It has no resins, which is a requirement for varnish.

Gloss Poly rubbed out is an excellent choice with wax for flattening further... never use matte finishes as the flatting agents are usually just silica which makes the finishes far less durable and less waterproof.

Adding oil to the poly will make it easier to apply to get the desired look.

A piece of advice... you should ALWAYS make the finish glossy and then rub it down to a sheen you can live with, or love. Glossy finishes are both more durable and more waterproof.

What?!?!?!

You do not like water spots? Decreased wear resistance?

All good advice.

Read what this man said....he is exactly right. The most durable satin finish will always be a rubbed out gloss finish due to the manufacturing processes to make a satin formulation...a byproduct of the process weakens it.

If it were my rifle I would wipe it down with Murphy's soap and immediately dry it off. If the finish was good I would use a quality wax on it like Renaissance, Briwax or any that have Carnuba wax in them.

I would be tempted to at least rub it down with Artist grade Linseed Oil thinned with turpentine before waxing. If you wanted more durability then Linspeed or any of the better spar varnishes could be mixed in at half linseed, 1/4 turps, and 1/4 varnish or less.

Regarding Oil and shellac mixes: James V. Howe has a formula in "Modern Gunsmithing" using shellac and linseed oil. Many of the formulas for Slacum used by Purdey and others have shellac added as a filler. LC Smith and Parker both used an oil shellac mixture for finishing and Parker would mix oil, shellac and varnish for really porous wood.

I didn't think it would work until I tried it and they are not only compatible but produced a nice finish faster and with at least initially more water repellent properties than oil alone. Not as durable as any of the modern finishes but traditional.

All good information but where would you put BLO in your points? I am sure you are aware it is the lowest grade of linseed oil with driers and drying inhibitors added which severely affect its value as a quality wood finish...

What actually weakens the semi-gloss finish is the addition of silica as a flatting agent.

Yeah well it's damned hard to f*ckin tell as I've used about every finish there is at one time or another including gloss, semi gloss and satin oil based polyurethanes and I'll be damned if I can tell a difference. One things for sure and that is they are all pretty durable and much more so than'any of the water based or "wipe on" poly's and oil finishes like tru oil or linspeed. The rifle in the OP is a hunting rifle for f*ck sakes and as such should have some damned scratches. I'd rub some minwax spar poly in the scratch, let it sit for a few and wipe off the excess. Let dry, repeat the procedure a couple times and call it good.

I doubt I'll ever use that rifle as a foul weather gun. But just for info's sake, what would you fellows recommend putting on top of the current finish to make it more weather resistant without giving it any more of a shiny finish?

Thanks for sharing that. I have used it successfully for years on outdoor gear and knew I wasnt the only one.

Well, among most of your other foolish statements you can add being totally clueless about poly finishes. Most of the current water-based polys are as good as they come and quite a bit harder and stronger than the old hydrocarbon solvent polys...

There is no doubt you will be damned, and if there is a wage to pay for not being able to see the very obvious differences between toughness and waterproofness in matte finishes versus gloss your bill will be high.

[/quote]
All good information but where would you put BLO in your points? [/quote]

You already know about BLO. The hardware store stuff is OK as a burnt oil finish for blacksmiths. It should never come near any fine firearm. Real boiled linseed oil I haven't used but I have used artist stand oil which is very useful in traditional finishes. It is sun dried partially polymerized high grade linseed oil similar to real boiled linseed oil. I usually add a small amount of cobalt or japan dryier to speed up the process. Red lead is the best oxidizer but a little too toxic to mess with.

Clives Lemon Oil is one of the best for conditioning a stock. I think it is a form of Slacum but not sure. May not be available anymore but was at one time as part of the Purdey Warthog line of products. The originators name is Lemon but I don't know if it has lemon oil in it at all. Don Allen recommended this for his Dakota Rifles.

I can say that minwax polycrylic is susceptible to most gun solvents. I finished a gun cleaning bench with several coats and had to go over it with oil based as Hoppes, break free, and other oils and solvents would melt it.

Gloss rubbed out is always better than looking through the flatteners in matte. You can also go gloss until the final coat, as it makes the finish less muddy.

Regarding Watco, I was going off of the Jewett finishing book. Supposedly if you leave a drop on a hard surface like the mirror and it dries hard it is varnish. Wrinkly it is oil and varnish blend. If it doesn't dry in a reasonable time it is oil. Watco dries wrinkly.

I agree with most everything... I am not a fan of Jewett or his book...

Look you thievin know it all azzhole, I've got two rifles in my safe right now that are finished with Minwax poly. One in gloss one in satin. I've hunted each of those rifles for 8 years since the refinish and there ain't no difference ANYBODY COULD TELL INCLUDING YOUR SANCTIMONIOUS STUPID AZZ. Also have used water based and there IS A VERY NOTICEABLE DIFFERENCE IN DURABILITY YOU AZZHOLE, AS THE WATER BASE IS VERY BRITTLE AND CRACKS/CHIPS EASILY. So go F*ck yourself silly and see if you can find anymore stuff you'd like to steal from your customers and shut the f*ck up.

There you go posting proof you know nothing about anything you post...

Anecdotes prove nothing, especially when you are talking about finishes applied by the clueless and tested by the blind in situations proving nothing. Congratulations!

They've been proven in the field in all kinds of weather and that's really all that matters. I won't bother to comment on the rest of your drivel because that's all it is.

Yeah right, double blinds and all, by a skilled researcher with a flair for serious depth.

I don't use my rifles for paddling my canoe or anchoring my boat. They do need to hold up to being hunted all day in rain, snow and sleet without showing water damage. The Minwax Helmsman poly's whether gloss or satin have done that better than any other finish I've used plus being more resistant to wear and scrathches. Pardon me but I'll trust my own experience over your research and theoretical pontifications any day ending in "Y" you pompous dickhead.

Such serious deliberations on such a vast set of examples! I'll bet your statistical evaluations taxed your cerebral cortex to near failure on two sets of one each... you should be more careful, it might spontaneously combust next time!

Umm, I've finished quite a few stocks for myself over the past 40 years and many more for customers. I make a decent living working on guns and it's been my sole source of income for quite a few years now. I don't believe I need your advice on anything.

Were this true it would say a lot about someone as clueless as you have proven to be repeatedly...

Well it is true dickhead, get over it. I know quite a few well known and highly regarded smiths personally. Have worked for several over the years actually. Not one uses your cockamamy tru-oil over epoxy finishing technique. Most use one brand or another of polyurethane, even for their so called "oil" finished stocks.

Wow, you sure do get uptight over all sorts of little stuff...

And the ones that do use epoxy and oil? Considering the numbers out there? Compelling argument again! Your background shortcomings show clearly.

You want to badmouth a method you have no experience with, endorse some that are clearly inferior to similar finishes, badmouth some outstanding products with far better characteristics in the areas you should be looking for, claim you are making a long-term living as a full-time gunsmith, and be taken seriously?

Acting the aggressive ass is obviously a cover for a real shallow intellect and a lack of experience. Phony mean anything to you?

Look, I'm done with you. I don't give a rats azz how you finish your stocks. If you were all you think you are you wouldn't need, nor indeed be able to supplement your income guiding hunters and fishermen. You'd be too damned busy working on guns. Enough said.

Clueless again!

Hardly. But sick to death of your useless rambling.

Pot, meet Kettle...

Is this guy drunk, or what. Usually I hear diatribes like that in redneck bars...

Alaska thing. They tend to be a little rough around the edges up there.

Well, I wasn't referring to Art.

I have used Pro Custom Oil which is available through Brownells. It is labeled as a mix of tung oil and urethane.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...custom-oil-gunstock-finish-prod5531.aspx

Not so much rain and moisture here in Arizona. Should one hunt in the PNW or AK, I suppose using the epoxy finish Art has suggested in the past, or switching to Alaskan walnut would be a better option

If you'd empty your inbox.................

Zing!

Doug, ProCustom Oil is far from the worst stuff out there, but like all tung finish claims it is as likely to have no tung and all linseed oil as it is to be all tung. What it really means in the industry is it is applied like tung. It essentially comes out like mixing urethane finish with good oil.

It has room now, I had a bunch of folks laughing at this idiot and Blackheart at the same time...

thanks to those who posted helpful/productive tips and methods. sorry it took so long to reply, fire season decided to happen in central idaho after all. Ive had one day off in august so far, and it was mandatory. no end in sight so i may or may not get to this project before my elk hunt but i appreciate the helpful posts.

WOW, the guy asks about finishing his stock and the thread turns into a multipage pizzing contest with the forum's dikhead in residence.

This was a helpful post as well.

Instead of calling me names like the other dickheads in this thread did first you could have pointed to my error...

Oh, there wasn't one, was there?!?!

Oh, why not support the other dickheads that started calling me names? Oh, they were full of schit!

Oh, why not give some meaningful advice on your method... oooopppsss...

Sorry about that!

Sucks to be clueless I would guess...

I think we all saw your error when Tejano clearly pointed out the use of oil and shellac mentioned in Modern Gunsmithing, also used by Purdey, LC Smith and Parker. Zing....you're never too old to learn

You should know.

Hey Gizzard,

You useless little prick, why aren't you at work in your state-of-the-art gunshop. Most 'smiths with your depth of "knowledge" are working 24/7 trying to keep up with orders. Could it be because the only place you are a "gunwizard" is between your ears?

Yepper, that's it!!!

Another dickweasel heard from.

There you go again.

Hey duncewizard did you ever get your Timney figured out yet?...

Duncewizard's Timney Dilemna

Not taking the bait from you trolls,sorry azzholes.

Well there is the first thing you've been right about in this thread... You are sorry, and I am an azzhole.

Wrong, you are sorry and you are an azzhole. Goodnight dumphuk, don't forget to turn out the light.

Hey girl, I thought you had me on ignore?...

Maybe so, but you're OUR asszhole!

I mean that in the nicest way!?

Awww shucks