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I have built a 6.5saum that will be my long range hunting rifle. 600 yards will be about my max range on the bean fields where I hunt. Gun is built on a model 7 action. I am thinking of scoping the rifle with a 3.5-10x40 CDS or 4.5-14x40 CDS. I am just wondering how crucial it would be to have parallax adjustment capability? Trying to decide on an AO or side focus option or just a standard one inch scope without parallax adjustment capabilities.
What feedback cann you give me?
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For a LR hunting rifle, pick a different scope. Parallax adjustment isn't critical if you practice consistent cheek weld.
For 600 yards and in, I'd be happier with a SS 6x or 3-9x, or if you insist on light weight and 1" tube, a FX3 6x42.
I've seen some reliability quirkiness with Leups, including the 6x42, so if I was planning on cranking on the elevation turret I'd go SWFA SS, or if you want to step up the price and weight, the Bushnell LRHS 3-12. Both (multiple SS and a single LRHS) have shown me utter reliability.
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For a purpose-built LR rifle it makes little sense not to have it. Unfortunately, scopes built for turret-turning tend to be chubby. Seems sad to beef up the svelte Model 7 action, but for the $, all roads lead to the Chicken.
I do not entertain hypotheticals. The world itself is vexing enough. -- Col. Stonehill
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Parallax adjustment isn't critical if you practice consistent cheek weld. Keep in mind that when you're shooting from different positions, especially uphill, downhill, or sidehill, you can't always be consistent. The best way to see how much shift you'll get (how much difference it makes) with a given scope is to line up the crosshairs on the target using a rock solid rest and shift around to different positions and see if the crosshairs move.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Parallax adjustment isn't critical if you practice consistent cheek weld. Keep in mind that when you're shooting from different positions, especially uphill, downhill, or sidehill, you can't always be consistent. The best way to see how much shift you'll get (how much difference it makes) with a given scope is to line up the crosshairs on the target using a rock solid rest and shift around to different positions and see if the crosshairs move. I was thinking the same thing. I wouldn't have scope without parallax adjustment.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Parallax error is minimized the farther away the image is. Fixed parallax set for 100 yards is going to show greater error from 100-400 yards than beyond 400. There's a reason most AP scopes have finer increments for shorter distance, and coarser increments for longer distance. They often go from 10 to 20 to 50 to 100, etc, and then from 400 or 500 yards straight to infinity.
Sure AP is nice, but as I said it's not critical. I've got plenty of scopes with AP, and plenty without. Fixed parallax hasn't stopped me from killing critters, rocks, and steel out to well beyond 1000 from various field positions. In fact, my longest shots on game were first-round, vital hits (my own kills, and cleaning up wounded animals for buds), and all were with 3-9x40/42 scopes with fixed parallax. It doesn't take more than a second to center your eye on the image when getting into position for a long shot, even if you aren't consistent in your cheek weld.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Sure AP is nice, but as I said it's not critical. Agreed. It doesn't take more than a second to center your eye on the image when getting into position for a long shot, even if you aren't consistent in your cheek weld. True. If you're in a really awkward position, like with a rock under your crotch or cactus, it can make things more difficult but my main point to the OP was that if you really want to know how much it matters, set up the rifle in a solid rest and move your head around and see what happens with the crosshairs.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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If you're shooting at a barn.....not much! On the other hand if it's a horsefly....a lot!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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RatherBHuntin,
There isn't any parallax at any range IF your eye is perfectly centered behind the scope, even if the scope doesn't have any parallax adjustment.
You can also determine how much error parallax can produce with some simple math. Let's say you're using a scope with a 42mm (@ 1.65") objective lens, adjusted at the factory to be free of parallax at 150 yards. The maximum possible parallax error at any other range is directly proportional to the diameter of the objective lens.
As a simple example, let's say you're shooting with that scope at 300 yards. The maximum possible error due to parallax is 1.65", because that's how much error the objective lens allows in your eye placement behind the scope.
Each additional 150 yards past the parallax-free distance of 150 yards adds another "objective lens diameter" to the possible error. Since 600 yards is 450 yards past the parallax-free distance, and 450 yards is three times 150, the maximum possible parallax error at 450 is 1.65" X 3, or 4.95".
This seems like a lot, but possible error from the center of aim is half that, slightly less than 2.5". And most shooters, on most shots, don't have their eye as far as possible off-center behind the scope, so parallax error is likely to be less than 2.5" from point of aim at 600.
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What is the typical 3-9X or 3 1/2-10X set for?
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Everyday Hunter
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Sure AP is nice, but as I said it's not critical. Agreed. It doesn't take more than a second to center your eye on the image when getting into position for a long shot, even if you aren't consistent in your cheek weld. True. If you're in a really awkward position, like with a rock under your crotch or cactus, it can make things more difficult but my main point to the OP was that if you really want to know how much it matters, set up the rifle in a solid rest and move your head around and see what happens with the crosshairs. Yup, and you're right. Some scopes have more parallax error than others...
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If you're shooting at a barn.....not much! On the other hand if it's a horsefly....a lot! I'd assume we're talking BG, given the forum we're in and the OP.
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Campfire Kahuna
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“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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If you're shooting at a barn.....not much! On the other hand if it's a horsefly....a lot! I'd assume we're talking BG, given the forum we're in and the OP. Don't assume!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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If you're shooting at a barn.....not much! On the other hand if it's a horsefly....a lot! I'd assume we're talking BG, given the forum we're in and the OP. Don't assume! It's a safe assumption. The OP said it's a LR hunting rifle for bean fields. If he's hunting horseflies I'd be surprised...
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RatherBHuntin,
There isn't any parallax at any range IF your eye is perfectly centered behind the scope, even if the scope doesn't have any parallax adjustment.
You can also determine how much error parallax can produce with some simple math. Let's say you're using a scope with a 42mm (@ 1.65") objective lens, adjusted at the factory to be free of parallax at 150 yards. The maximum possible parallax error at any other range is directly proportional to the diameter of the objective lens.
As a simple example, let's say you're shooting with that scope at 300 yards. The maximum possible error due to parallax is 1.65", because that's how much error the objective lens allows in your eye placement behind the scope.
Each additional 150 yards past the parallax-free distance of 150 yards adds another "objective lens diameter" to the possible error. Since 600 yards is 450 yards past the parallax-free distance, and 450 yards is three times 150, the maximum possible parallax error at 450 is 1.65" X 3, or 4.95".
This seems like a lot, but possible error from the center of aim is half that, slightly less than 2.5". And most shooters, on most shots, don't have their eye as far as possible off-center behind the scope, so parallax error is likely to be less than 2.5" from point of aim at 600. Thanks MD. This helps me put things in perspective. Just trying to settle on a scope for my 6.5 SAUM. I have a Zeiss 6.5-20x50 on there now, but it just looks way too big for the model seven and I am afraid it will too easily get knocked off zero with the small distance between rings.
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I am thinking of scoping the rifle with a 3.5-10x40 CDS or 4.5-14x40 CDS. I am just wondering how crucial it would be to have parallax adjustment capability? Trying to decide on an AO or side focus option or just a standard one inch scope without parallax adjustment capabilities.
What feedback can you give me? As power goes up, the lack of PA becomes more apparent at further distances. As said, being centered behind the scope helps mitigate potential issues. Another option I've done on fixed scopes, is to reset the parallax to 400 yards and not fret the closer range stuff. Easily done yourself w/o shipping the scope to Leupold and paying their $25.00 fee. There's a couple threads here on how to do it.
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I thought about doing the same thing.
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I've not tried it but have heard that some highpower Service Rifle competitors are drilling a centered hole in a cover for the ocular end of the scope. Supposedly looking through the hole in the cover centers your eye behind the scope. In highpower we shoot standing, sitting, and prone at 200, 300, and 600 yards and it is not easy to get centered behind the scope with a fixed A2 butt assembly. I have no idea how this works or if it is feasible for a hunting rifle, but it does appear to reduce the parallax error.
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I am thinking of scoping the rifle with a 3.5-10x40 CDS or 4.5-14x40 CDS. I am just wondering how crucial it would be to have parallax adjustment capability? Trying to decide on an AO or side focus option or just a standard one inch scope without parallax adjustment capabilities.
What feedback can you give me? As power goes up, the lack of PA becomes more apparent at further distances. As said, being centered behind the scope helps mitigate potential issues. Another option I've done on fixed scopes, is to reset the parallax to 400 yards and not fret the closer range stuff. Easily done yourself w/o shipping the scope to Leupold and paying their $25.00 fee. There's a couple threads here on how to do it. I've also reset many non AO scopes myself; and looking back can think of several more that I would have done if I'd known how. Its all well and good to say that typical hunting scopes don't need an AO, and that's mostly true when everything is set and working properly. I often stretch a hunting rifle out farther than I'd use that particular one in the field on my home range, and once in a while the limiting factor is the parallax after a certain distance. I did a couple this spring that were adequate at 500 but basically unusable at 650. Unusable as in could head-shake well off of a IPSC silhouette at that distance. It doesn't take much, a quarter turn is a lot. Usually if I set for 300 it gives up a little at 100 but from 2 to infinity its as good as I'd ever expect or need. Now that I think of it, it tends to be a 4.5-14 that gets the strap wrench and hacksaw blade treatment. Somehow, using a AO scope on a hunting rifle now doesn't seem to be as big a pain now as it once did.
Life begins at 40. Recoil begins at "Over 40" Coincidence? I don't think so.
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If you're shooting at a barn.....not much! On the other hand if it's a horsefly....a lot! I'd assume we're talking BG, given the forum we're in and the OP. Don't assume! It's a safe assumption. The OP said it's a LR hunting rifle for bean fields. If he's hunting horseflies I'd be surprised... And for your hunting rifle maybe you just want to hit a basket ball at the end of a beanfield whereas I want mine to explode golf balls!!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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If you're shooting at a barn.....not much! On the other hand if it's a horsefly....a lot! I'd assume we're talking BG, given the forum we're in and the OP. Don't assume! It's a safe assumption. The OP said it's a LR hunting rifle for bean fields. If he's hunting horseflies I'd be surprised... And for your hunting rifle maybe you just want to hit a basket ball at the end of a beanfield whereas I want mine to explode golf balls!! Well actually, yeah that's usually about the gist of it! If you can hit a basket ball at any given range, a BG critter is going to be in trouble. But for the sake of argument, here's 1000 words. This was shot with a lightweight hunting rifle and a 6x fixed-parallax scope: ![[Linked Image]](http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y397/The_Jerbel/7WSM/null_zps3892fd3f.png) 9x FP on the same LW hunting rifle... ![[Linked Image]](http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y397/The_Jerbel/7WSM/F7A05F3D-A542-4DEC-8E0C-9C2C092882C8_zpsjof3zzjj.png)
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I concur with Jordan.... 700 yards... Light Weight hunting rifle... 3-9x with fixed parallax... little under .7 MOA.... to POA... ![[Linked Image]](http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a21/DDP2005/2E041439-B3AF-41D0-A7EC-CFAEC11E7FB3_zpsdal39wja.jpg)
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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I was out shooting today doing some chronograph work and dialing in a new rifle, my new rifle wears the new Leupold VX-3i 4.5-14x40 with no AO or side focus. I wanted to try this scope on this rifle just to have the lightest set up I could and to try something new. I had a couple other rifles with me One had a VX-3 4.5-14x40 AO and the other had a 4.5-14 LR 30mm with side focus.
After spending the day with these 3 scopes I hate my new VX-3i, there are ranges where you can tell parallax is present and it drove me nuts not being able to do any thing about it except turn the power down
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Send the scope to Leupold and have them reset the parallax for 400 yds. A little parallax at 100-200 yds. isn't going to make difference on a big game animal.
Or you can you can create a doughnut around the scope by getting closer or further away from the center of the eye box. Center the image in the doughnut and the parallax is gone. E
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Send the scope to Leupold and have them reset the parallax for 400 yds. A little parallax at 100-200 yds. isn't going to make difference on a big game animal.
Or you can you can create a doughnut around the scope by getting closer or further away from the center of the eye box. Center the image in the doughnut and the parallax is gone. E
That's a good idea. Thanks
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Parallax adjustment is not as important as the shooter behind the scope.i wouldn't be afraid of 600yds at something as small as a coyote if I had a good rangefinder and a 10x Bushnell tactical.It all depends on how seasoned you are and the familiarity with your equipment.Ymmv
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Send the scope to Leupold and have them reset the parallax for 400 yds. A little parallax at 100-200 yds. isn't going to make difference on a big game animal.
Or you can you can create a doughnut around the scope by getting closer or further away from the center of the eye box. Center the image in the doughnut and the parallax is gone. E
It is a good idea,works very well in any position that you'd be shooting something at 600yds.
Last edited by SawDoctor; 09/06/16.
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