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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,079
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,079 |
No, they didn't produce one big batch. I've purchased and used several different lots of all three original Enduron powders--4166, 4451 and 7977--and they've all been easily available since shortly after their introduction three years ago, far more so than the Extremes. Which is how I've purchased several different lots.
Part of the reason is they're being produced in Canada, instead of on the other side of the largest ocean in the world, that has been making IMR powders for many years now. You might as well be afraid of not being able to get IMR4895 or IMR4350.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
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No, they didn't produce one big batch. I've purchased and used several different lots of all three original Enduron powders--4166, 4451 and 7977--and they've all been easily available since shortly after their introduction three years ago, far more so than the Extremes. Which is how I've purchased several different lots.
Part of the reason is they're being produced in Canada, instead of on the other side of the largest ocean in the world, that has been making IMR powders for many years now. You might as well be afraid of not being able to get IMR4895 or IMR4350. Good. I'll have to try some then.
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
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Ok, I haven't read all 6 pages, but is there any mention that these new powders will be replacing H4350 or H4831SC?
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,659
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2008
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Ok, I haven't read all 6 pages, but is there any mention that these new powders will be replacing H4350 or H4831SC? That depends on how much you value a little more velocity vs re-doing load workup.
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Bob,
Along with converting all my former H4350 loads to IMR4451 (which has gone very well so far), I'm also doing some of the same thing with H4831 and IMR7977. For the same reason, too--when H4831 becomes available, it's briefly and erratically, though not as much as H4350. Meanwhile 7977 has been pretty much constantly available since it was introduced, especially on Internet sites.
7977 not only works well in the .270 Winchester but various magnums from the .257 Weatherby to 7mm Remington to just about any .300 from the WSM to Wby. It's also one of the best powders in the .280 Ackley Improved, just in case you decide to upgrade from the .270 one of these days. :-) John I already have an upgrade over the 270....it's called a 7 Rem Mag.  The IMR Data shows the 280 AI delivering less velocity at more pressure than the 7 RM,albeit with 7 gr more powder to which I say "So what?" . More pressure and less velocity doesn't sound like any bargain to me....  Case capacity wins again! Guess that's why I never "got" the 280AI thing,and likely never will. Just mention that in passing since i don't want to stir those 280 AI guys up....tough crowd. 
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,408
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2016
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I will try R26 when I am up and about this fall
It does seem to serve the .270 win really well.There isn't really an upgrade from it in my opinion...it is the golden child unless the 7mm rem mag or the AI work out of a 22 "barrel.C'mon..150 grain partition @3000 fps+ is superb for elk...and the brass lasts forever!Cheers
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Joined: Apr 2009
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2009
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I shot some 150 partitions over 60.5 gr of RL26 (chrono'd 3040 fps) at 200 and 300 yards today. I was happy with how they shot. There was some cross wind today, and the 150's seem to "buck the wind" a little better than .30 cal 180 partitions (chrono'd 2750 fps) from my .30-06.
I looked at Nosler ballistic data for these loads and their 400 yd energy numbers are about the same. I think this might be a good .270 load even for elk.
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Joined: Oct 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2007
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I tried RL 26 with the LR Accubombs today in a 270WSM.Started out with 62.6 grains ended up with 67.6 grains.The more powder,the better it shot.66.6 grains yielded a .363 3 shot group at 100 yards.At 67.6 the group opened up to .795.Too Sunny today to chrono.That was in a Tikka T3 lite ,24" barrel.I tried some 150 grain LR Accubombs in my Forbes 24B 270.I was using RL 23.Shot nice patterns.Max loads of RL 22 I Think 56 grains and 140 Bergers and no group over .650 and three about 325.Freaking insane.I am going to try the RL 26 with both the 140 Bergers and the 150 LRAB`s next.Huntz
Last edited by Huntz; 09/15/16.
Its all right to be white!!
Stupidity left unattended will run rampant
Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,735
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
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Ok, I haven't read all 6 pages, but is there any mention that these new powders will be replacing H4350 or H4831SC? That depends on how much you value a little more velocity vs re-doing load workup. My overriding concern is that the two H's will still be available. Unless forced to, I'm done chasing a little velocity. The old stuff worked fine for 25+ years.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
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I am going to try the RL 26 with both the 140 Bergers and the 150 LRAB`s next.Huntz In the 270WSM I ran the 140 grain Accubonds up to 69 grains of R26 which is the same load I use with R25. No idea if I am over pressure but there are no indications of it. Initial velocity and accuracy mimicked the R25 load at 3,200 fps. I will stop there or back down some before I load a bunch. This is the only case where R26 matched R25. In other cases all the other loads were less than the R25 max loads but with similar or higher velocities.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,079
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,079 |
bigwhoop,
When Jack O'Connor started using H4831 in the .270 it was all about "chasing velocity," even though handloaders had to take his word (and that of the loading manuals) back then. The truth was that the original mil-surp powder Bruce Hodgdon eventually called H4831 didn't get much more velocity out of the .270 than IMR4350, which had already been around for close to a decade.
The other side of it is that before cheap chronographs appeared, many people thought they were chasing velocity but were mistaken. I bought my first .243 Winchester in 1974, and since it was the exact same model Speer used in their manual, and I used exactly the same load, I assumed the muzzle velocity of my handloads was right around 3000 fps. Bought my first chronograph five years later and found my handloads weren't quite getting 2800 fps.
A friend (another gun writer) had the same experience with his 7mm Remington Magnum. After buying a chronograph he found he'd been using what was essentially a warmly-loaded 7x57 for many years. Since he lived in a heavily timbered part of Montana, where big game was almost never shot over 200 yards, it didn't make any difference to the deer, black bears and elk his "magnum" killed.
Actually, I'm surprised some people don't claim they still use Cordite, since it worked fine in the 1890's.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274 |
And sometimes factory loads weren't up to snuff, either. Pre-chrono I used some 120gr .25-06 factory loads as a reference when loading for my first deer rifle. They worked, but I had some funky results. A few years later I bought a chrono and learned the factory loads were only doing 2750 fps.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 19,813 |
bigwhoop,
Actually, I'm surprised some people don't claim they still use Cordite, since it worked fine in the 1890's. Actually, if you read any modern murder/mystery novels you will find that the scent of cordite is still in the air. It's one of my pet peeves about novelist/writers who claim to know something about firearms.
"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,735
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,735 |
bigwhoop,
When Jack O'Connor started using H4831 in the .270 it was all about "chasing velocity," even though handloaders had to take his word (and that of the loading manuals) back then. The truth was that the original mil-surp powder Bruce Hodgdon eventually called H4831 didn't get much more velocity out of the .270 than IMR4350, which had already been around for close to a decade.
The other side of it is that before cheap chronographs appeared, many people thought they were chasing velocity but were mistaken. I bought my first .243 Winchester in 1974, and since it was the exact same model Speer used in their manual, and I used exactly the same load, I assumed the muzzle velocity of my handloads was right around 3000 fps. Bought my first chronograph five years later and found my handloads weren't quite getting 2800 fps.
A friend (another gun writer) had the same experience with his 7mm Remington Magnum. After buying a chronograph he found he'd been using what was essentially a warmly-loaded 7x57 for many years. Since he lived in a heavily timbered part of Montana, where big game was almost never shot over 200 yards, it didn't make any difference to the deer, black bears and elk his "magnum" killed.
Actually, I'm surprised some people don't claim they still use Cordite, since it worked fine in the 1890's. Well all I meant was that I probably won't be jumping to something new for 125+/- fps. My buddy and I shoot thru each others chronies to verify speeds. My supply of cordite ran out in the 80's so I was forced to switch to H4831SC.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
You can make your own cordite. Get with the program!
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2003
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Dang, that's smokin'!
Given that the longest shot I've taken on a deer in the last 20 years was maybe 125 yards, my interest in pushing for more speed might be a little silly, but a boy's got to get his fun someplace. This is true. RL_26 had become my new everyday powder for the open country streamlined 150. Going to definitely have to replace the old rock hard red recoil pad on the M77. Like RL_17 with 130 TTSX for speed goats And IMR 4831 with Nosler 160 Partition for timber. But then I'm OCD & picky too boot! 41 Ditto on the 160s, but I push them with a couple of jugs of Supreme 780 I was lucky enough to find before they pulled the plug on it. Both the doe I shot and the big 10-point my son shot last year just FOD (Fell Over Dead, DRT is passé and bang-flop sounds too much like a description of old-man sex). What attracted me to the 780 is that even the starting load shows good velocity. I've got enough to last me and maybe my son too when the loads I gave him run out. Roger that on the slow ball powder, have 1/2 a jug of WW 785 around, but the .300 Roy likes it with 180 grain Grand Slams. That whippy 26" Krieger is so picky! 41
Last edited by 41rem; 09/19/16.
We deal in lead, friend.
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
Perhaps soon.... You'll can have to make your own cordite. Get with the program!
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,418
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2007
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I wonder if R26 shines in a 280AI It does. That's all I'll say since there's no published data.
You only live once, but...if you do it right, once is enough.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
The case with the larger capacity always wins if all things are equal.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578 |
This is a combo I am going to have to try in my boys' rifles, once I can find some R26.
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