Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters why reduced/downloaded rifle cartridges frown upon?

gnoahh, I got a little confused. Lyman uses cast bullets. Does that mean I can substitute identical weight jacketed bullet with same load data?


Yondering, so if I used Hodgdon's 60% rule for H4895, don't begin at their lightest 60% charge, correct?

I'll leave it like this: I have, and had no issues, in a number of instances over the years. As with all advice garnered on the internet "you pays your money and takes your chances." In the end, a man has to step into the water to see just how deep it is.

Leo,

Cast bullet loads are waaay below SAAMI specs for pressure. Therefore substituting a jacketed bullet should present no problems.

if using H4895, and you start at their 60% rule, since it has been tried and tested by ADI who gave them the information, there should be zero issues. Same can apply to using IMR 4895 instead. All of these KaBooms one can hear about, happened with much slower powders being reduced, such as 4350, 4831 etc. Even P.O. Ackley tried to duplicate the situation in the lab, and couldn't, so he couldn't conclude why it happened.

Powders like 4198, can be reduced lower than the 60% rule with zero issues....I refer to Ingwe's Bunny Loads, as they are called on the campfire here, 12.5 grains of 4198 with a 50 grain bullet in a 223 case.

Using one's head, instead of letting old wives tales rule your thinking when at the load bench, goes a long way.

Most naythsayers will admit, they haven't worked with downloading cartridges much, if at all.... and then justify their lack of hands on experience, with the excuse "they know better". Apply that logic to the subject of driving a car, and you'll see how ridiculous that is.

Cast bullet manuals have loads that have been tested, so one is pretty safe with those. The most important issue in safety is one's loading techniques at the load bench. Its no different than when loading handgun cartridges, yet somehow rifle handloaders often think it is a case of being a mad scientist.

I started a thread in the "Reloading" section, but since it is already being discussed here:

Has anyone clocked any reduced H4895 loads in 270 Win? For a 130-gr bullet I'm aiming for 2200 fps, and my dead reckoning suggests about 29.5 grs H4895. (Hodgdon's 60% rule yields 27 grs as the max safe reduced load.)

If you use 60% of the powder, will it give 60% of the velocity?

Yes, with single-based powders like H4895. Within normal limits, velocities are proportional to charge.

Double-based powders don't work the same way. Velocity tends to decrease more than proportionally to charge, how much depending on the amount of nitroglycerin in the specific powder.

That was really only a brain fart,but when I got got home I tried the 270 and 243's that are H4895 reduced to 60% of max. They were 61% for the 243's and 62% for the 270's. I loaded 5 270's at 80%. Sure enough, right on 80% of projected velocity. I thought that pretty cool!

Yeah, it's real handy, especially when using either of the 4895's!

And, if I understand these comments correctly, the IMR version doesn't have the loud report of the H version. Is that correct?

I have no idea. They're all loud to me.

I enjoy shooting cast bullets in the .45-70 with reduced loads (Unique & Trail Boss) and peep sights. Always fun to see how far I can hit the "dinger". Time to file down that front sight some more. :^)

Huh? Whattid you say? I can't hear you.

Thanks, that's very useful data! I'm obliged to ya'.

The reduced loads seem quiet to me compare to regular loads. How could they be louder?? I will post some deer and pig pics killed with reduced loads tomorrow. The animals couldn't tell they had a little less powder.

There fixed it for you. Can you hear him now?

Hey wifey, " Can you say that again?"

Hanco, did you ever find those pics?

Well, I score one container of Trail Boss. That should work well in 223rem since blue dot can't be found here.

I will see if I can go back and buy few more containers. It's 9oz instead of 1 lb containers like rest of powder but it's still fairly big container for only 9oz.

So between some Trail Boss and H4895 I should be set!

Thank you all for you help and input, much appreciated!