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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
First, let me say that I'm opposed to any sort of licensing or requirement for a class before you can carry a handgun, concealed or not.
But for those that have taken a state licensing course....What was the course of fire?
I ask because I took the state instructor course this week and got my first exposure to what the class involves. And it scared the crap out of me. The frightening part is just how awful some people can be with a handgun, and still be able to pass the instructor course.
I think it's really counter-productive. Once you tell someone that they passed a state mandated course, they feel pretty good about themselves and I think a lot of them leave with a false sense of security. And for the instructors, they leave with a false level of credibility. There was a lady in the class who blathered for two days about all "basic handgun" classes she teaches. The she failed the shooting portion twice with a revolver and was about to fail her second time with a semi-auto as I was leaving. And this lady will eventually pass the course and have instant credibility because the state of Texas says that she's a certified instructor.
Our course of fire consists of 20 rounds at 3 yards, 20 rounds at 10 yards and 10 rounds at 15 yards. The target is a B-27. Anything in the 8ring is 5 points, the 7ring is 4 points and the rest of the body is 3 points. 70% to pass as a student, the instructor course is a 90% pass.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,232
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,232 |
Last I tested 5 years ago Nevada was
6 rnds. @ 3 yds.
12 rnds. at 5 yds. 6-RH, 6-LH
12 rnds. 7 yds.
Anything in the 8 ring or better counted.
B-27 target
I believe it was also 70% to pass.
Let's Go Brandon! FJB
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
There is no established course of fire for the state of MT.
It's at the discretion of the local SO to determine what is or isn't good to go.
"NRA certified instructor" and "Licensed concealed carry instructor" means nothing to me. Regardless of state.
Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 253
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 253 |
The first time I took a concealed handgun class was in Louisiana. The instructors were Lake Charles policemen who said that they would watch some of the classes going on and were horrified at what people were being taught. So they started teaching as a side business. We had to bring 150 rounds to the class, and we shot every round. They had us go through several basic drills before we ever got around to the qualifying part. They actually made the classroom and range fun and interesting.
I moved back to Texas before I ever filled out my application in Louisiana and took the class over here. The instructor basically read the lesson plan to us. When we went to shoot, it was just going through what you outlined in your op.
Last edited by doover72; 08/20/16.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,164
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,164 |
First, let me say that I'm opposed to any sort of licensing or requirement for a class before you can carry a handgun, concealed or not.
But for those that have taken a state licensing course....What was the course of fire?
I ask because I took the state instructor course this week and got my first exposure to what the class involves. And it scared the crap out of me. The frightening part is just how awful some people can be with a handgun, and still be able to pass the instructor course.
I think it's really counter-productive. Once you tell someone that they passed a state mandated course, they feel pretty good about themselves and I think a lot of them leave with a false sense of security. And for the instructors, they leave with a false level of credibility. There was a lady in the class who blathered for two days about all "basic handgun" classes she teaches. The she failed the shooting portion twice with a revolver and was about to fail her second time with a semi-auto as I was leaving. And this lady will eventually pass the course and have instant credibility because the state of Texas says that she's a certified instructor.
Our course of fire consists of 20 rounds at 3 yards, 20 rounds at 10 yards and 10 rounds at 15 yards. The target is a B-27. Anything in the 8ring is 5 points, the 7ring is 4 points and the rest of the body is 3 points. 70% to pass as a student, the instructor course is a 90% pass. Agreed Blue, our State Course is a joke. Most of the other Instructors I met during the State course we're a bunch of goobers! Last time I did the Instructors Renewal Course, the idiot beside me on the firing line put three rounds on my Frickin target! And some of the other idiots in my class couldn't even hit the damn target at 15 yards. I let my instructors license expire last year. I don't have time to teach anymore with the new Ranch Manager job.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,681
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,681 |
I took my CCW class and got my license back in 1989. Or was it 1987? Hard to remember. I have no idea of what sort of shooting test was required. I know I took one, and passed it easily though.
Sam......
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,103
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,103 |
Blue, here is a new one for ya. I know an instructor that had a blind person inquire about getting her CHL, and just wanted to be able to protect herself well at home and abroad. The instructor said he would have to research it, to determine if she/he legally could. He said that there wasn't any laws prohibiting it.
She took the course, I believe a private course. My friend, the instructor worked with her before she ever picked up a pistol. He was amazed on how well she could track his movement. I guess she passed and did quit well.
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Joined: May 2014
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,403 |
Just passed my state course. The instructor was very good. He was out of Watertown, SD.
I shoot a lot so the best thing about the course for me was the State laws.
If you ever come to Sturgis on a motorcycle, beware!! If you have a pistol on your belt in plain sight you must have a concealed weapons permit!
One other thing, I have been known to keep a revolver in a locked compartment in my truck. This compartment is locked by my ignition key. If there is a person in the truck under 18 and I step in a convenient store leaving the kid in the truck, I can be arrested and charged.
I recommend the course!!
If you want to learn to shoot, this may not be the first choice.
Last edited by Bugger; 08/20/16.
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,691
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,691 |
Funny you mention this, Blue. I took my CCDW Instructor Trainer class back in 2013. It was an eye opening experience.
The class had just under 20 students, but two of them came to class wearing their SWAT T shirts from a PD in the area. The wheels came off the bus when on Day 2, at the range, we moved back to the nefarious 15 yard line to shoot 10 rounds.
One of those SWAT Types couldn't pass and got sent home.
I hope he was the medic or something.
Anyway, in KY, it's only 20 rounds at 7 yards for Applicants and the instructor course requires a total of 20 rounds as well. 10 from 7 yard line and 10 from the 15. We are mandated to shoot the B21, I think it is. Applicants count hits on anything that would cause a band aid for the target. Instructors have to hit 70% inside the coke bottle.
There are people in Kentucky who are legally blind and have their CCDW.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,441
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,441 |
Eric, this is the way I look at the course from the student side.
Last renewal I was still on the old 8 to 10 hour course. I think today is a little shorter 4 to 6 hour course plus the range time?
My instructor had to be able to talk laws and tell jokes for about 8 hours. Range time total for the group was about one hour. (20 something people).
Safety of handling a pistol was covered but I really think you were already supposed to know how to fire a pistol. Not sure on that. Maybe the state needs to start a PRE course on actual shooting and handling of a pistol for the newbies then the next day have the course and range time?
Only go to the course which you feel you need.
Joel, only thing to say is what was that Kentucky Bourbon you served me at the hog hunt? That was some really good stuff.
Now back on topic.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,624
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,624 |
"NRA certified instructor" and "Licensed concealed carry instructor" means nothing to me. Regardless of state.
Dave
Couldn't have said it better myself...........Dave is just Soooooo eloquent. MM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
today, you don't need a permit/license to carry concealed in arizona. Any non felon or otherwise not denied can carry anything they want.
Now we still do have a concealed weapons permit, mostly useful in traveling to other states and firearms purchases.
But it was required at one time.
When it first became available i took the course from a friend of mine that was on the committee that designed the law. He was a cop.
it was five rounds at five yards, five rounds at ten yards. Anywhere on a b27 target was considered a hit.
Now i have seen some old people pass this that literally could not rack the slide on a semiauto, and hold on target even with the above. But multiple testing they managed to do it holes all over the target.
According to my friend, it was intentionally designed that way by those envolved in the law to make sure people could pass it.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
About the same here, 3, 5 and 7 with a total of 50 rounds at a B29 target and a 70% to pass.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,591
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,591 |
I've seen people shoot more of a pattern than a group while instructing years ago.
Most of the "patterns" came from street cops.
Most were ok with their handguns, but some were really scary, and no amount of instruction seemed to help them. They were just honestly piss poor shots.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Posts: 3,519
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,519 |
Missouri's is pretty sad. Excerpted from http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/stathtml/57100001111.html A live-fire test administered to the applicant while the instructor was present of twenty rounds from either a revolver or a semiautomatic pistol from a standing position or its equivalent at a distance from a B-27 silhouette target, or an equivalent target, of seven yards.
To pass, you must hit the silhouette portion of the targets with at least fifteen rounds.
Last edited by SargeMO; 08/21/16.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,590 |
There is no state mandated course of fire here. The requirement is that one "demonstrate(s) proficiency with a firearm." There is a list of things that meet this requirement, including completion of a "certified firearm safety or training course utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Wyoming law enforcement academy." Other ways to demonstrate this include experience with a firearm through participation in an organized handgun shooting competition or military service, or completion of any law enforcement safety or training course for security officers or police. When I moved here, I sent some USPSA match results, among other things.
Of course, if you are a resident over 21 and meet all of the requirements except the above proficiency requirement, you can carry concealed without a permit.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096 |
FL shooting requirements are a joke, all that is required is the ability to load and fire safely!
That said the classroom part most, including yours truly teach is safety right out of the NRA course plus FL law and restrictions.
At the range I require 10 rounds each at 3,7,10 and fifteen yards. All must be inside the 8 ring of a standard B27, 10 seconds max for each 5 rounds expended at all ranges. If a student cannot do this I will not issue a certificate but will give remedial instruction for two 1 hour sessions if needed and if they then pass first try they get the Certificate. I am not in it to make money simply make SAFE shooters!
George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!
Old cat turd!
"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.
I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
If a student cannot do this I will not issue a certificate but will give remedial instruction for two 1 hour sessions if needed and if they then pass first try they get the Certificate. I am not in it to make money simply make SAFE shooters! So is that the course of fire you made up or what the state requires? They don't require anything do they? I really disagree with their being ANY licensing requirement at all, but to make your own personal requirements even more stringent than what the state mandates, in order for someone to exercise their constitutional rights, is just crazy to me.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,891
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,891 |
FL shooting requirements are a joke, all that is required is the ability to load and fire safely!
It is a right to bear arms to defend ones self, the state requirement is sufficient the rest is up to the individual
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,787
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,787 |
Live Free or Die.........no course here.
George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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