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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
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I hear a lot about these, but don't know much. From what I understand, or at least think I understand they basically reprogram your vehicles computer.
I'm hearing claims of 25-100 more HP with similar gains in torque and improved fuel mileage. All seems too good to be true. If so, why not program them that way from the factory. Seems like there have to be some downsides, but I'm hearing of lots of guys spending the money for them.
What is the true story to this? Is it worth the expense and what are the downsides?
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 860
Campfire Regular
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On a gas engine you aren't going to see any really noticeable difference. On a diesel you can see some serious gains though.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Downsides
It takes fuel to make power=mpg
Emissions may go up
Your drivetrain may not be up to higher horsepower and fail quicker
May/will void warranty
If any of hese occur you may not even be able to measure it. A horsepowr gain may not show a mpg loss if you drive conservatively, if you hot rod your mileage will always suck.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2007
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About what I expected. But if you spend time on some of the truck and SUV forums it seems an awful lot of guys using and recommending them.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,813
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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A tune on a diesel with an egr/ DPF delete AND a performance tune will make you have trouble closing your mouth...... Then the game of upgrading the drive line components begins... And buying tires  .
Sic Semper Tyrannis
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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The tunes they sell for non-turbocharged gas engines are worthless.
I had BMW 535I with the turbocharged straight six and had a tuner on it that allowed more boost from the turbo, it was pretty impressive.
A good tuner on a diesel with the DPF delete as Dutch mentioned = Whoa Nellie!
On a naturally aspirated gas engine though, don't waste your money.
All of them will void your warranty if they're discovered, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
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Thought this was a music thread.
Never Mind then.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I have a tuner on my truck. My mileage is as good or better than stock and I have an extra 100 HP at minimum when I need it. Generally, it's passing someone.
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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A tune on a diesel with an egr/ DPF delete AND a performance tune will make you have trouble closing your mouth...... Then the game of upgrading the drive line components begins... And buying tires . All I want is the EGR/DEF delete, that's all I want. I want to block off that EGR port and toss a chunk of pipe in the place of the exhaust filter and not have the engine hunting for those cycles. I don't care about performance tunes. What's the closest thing out there available for what I want? 2008 6.4 ford.
Something clever here.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Dave, I don't pretend to know that much about the 6.4 as I have a 6.0, but here are a couple of items for your consideration. I'm pretty sure you're going to need a tuner with any 'delete'kits, so factor that into your cost. EGR Cooler Delete DPF Race Pipe
Mercy ceases to be a virtue when it enables further injustice. -Brent Weeks
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Aug 2008
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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A tune on a diesel with an egr/ DPF delete AND a performance tune will make you have trouble closing your mouth...... Then the game of upgrading the drive line components begins... And buying tires . Yes and it keeps going. Been there done that, still doing it. Sounds like you have too.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2004
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Dave, I don't pretend to know that much about the 6.4 as I have a 6.0, but here are a couple of items for your consideration. I'm pretty sure you're going to need a tuner with any 'delete'kits, so factor that into your cost. EGR Cooler Delete DPF Race Pipe Thanks. I can make both of those items in my shop with stuff I have laying around. What I need is the delete compatible tuner. I understand that the tuners will be geared towards additional power/performance as well. I'm not apposed to that, I would just choose a lower level, mainly after programming corrections for these physical deletes. I can't stand having black engine oil. That EGR chit has to go. I also hate the DEF, my 08 doesn't used DEF cleaning fluid, it simply floods the cylinders with diesel, some of that fuel gets past the rings and down into the crank case. The oil level goes up over time due to fuel contamination from DEF cycles. If I'm going to keep this truck, that stuff is going away, lol.
Something clever here.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Spartan Tuners used to be one that supported at deleted 6.4 but I don't know if they still do. I seem to recall the EPA coming down on them at one point.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2004
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Something clever here.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Have to get one from Canada or some other non-EPA regulated region.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Yeah...like the wonderful idea of plumbing the crank case vent into the intake. How could feeding oily crankcase fumes into the turbo, intercooler, and engine be a bad idea? Let's just say my CCV is a bit more free-flowing than the original design.
Mercy ceases to be a virtue when it enables further injustice. -Brent Weeks
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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My Titan has an UpRev Tune and it made a very noticeable difference.
When I die I hope I don't start voting democrat.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Have to get one from Canada or some other non-EPA regulated region. excellent idea
Something clever here.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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For Ford go to powerstroke.org and find the 6.4 sub forum. I don't know 6.4's (have a 6.0-no, and love it, after fixing it), but ask your specific question there and you'll get a concensus answer shortly. After deleting/studding/etc by 6.0 and having a 'mild' tune on, you can't wipe the smile from my face when half-assed getting on it. Tires don't like it as much, so now that the novelty has worn off I try and baby how its driven, except once in a while when passing someone.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I had a tune done on a 5.7 Corvette, and it made a noticeable difference.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Black Bear works well on GM 5.3, 6.0 and 6.2 gassers. You'll most likely need to run 91 octane, minimum. Very noticible improvements in performance.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
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I doubt If I'll do anything. But if I do I'm specifically looking at 2014 F-150 with 5.0L V-8, 3.55 gears. I don't feel it is short on performance, but if I can get a little more HP, torque without losing fuel mileage I might consider it later.
Just trying to make sure I fully understand the concept before doing anything.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,068
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I doubt If I'll do anything. But if I do I'm specifically looking at 2014 F-150 with 5.0L V-8, 3.55 gears. I've owned 2 of those; a 2012 and a 2014. I didn't tune either of them, used them for everything from road trips to towing my camper, boat, and horse trailer. Never felt the need to tune and was VERY pleased with performance and fuel economy. I've heard they can really put out the power but never felt the need.
Mercy ceases to be a virtue when it enables further injustice. -Brent Weeks
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 21,317 |
Manufacturers tune their engines to meet EPA requirements, maximize engine life and be compatible with a relatively wide variety of fuels. There is also room for some extra performance if you're willing to give up some engine longevity or run outside of EPA parameters.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293 |
or run outside of EPA parameters. I'm willing to run..... with scissors. Far, far, far outside of EPA parameters. Lol
Something clever here.
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Joined: Jun 2012
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Totally OK as long as you have a catalyst on those scissors.
Mercy ceases to be a virtue when it enables further injustice. -Brent Weeks
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,802
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,802 |
I have one for my Harley. Basically there's 2 types.
Those that piggy back the ECU and fool it into doing what you want and those that actually re-program the ECU. I went the reprogram route with mine.
Now this is a low tech, 103 inch, NA, 2 cylinder.
I immediately notices a MUCH smoother running bike, lower temps (it adds fuel - lean is hot, rich(er) is cool) and I went from 41 mpg all the time to nothing less than 45 mpg with 54 mpg a few times on leisurely runs with the dealer group. I expect to LENGTHEN the life of my engine because it's running cooler than before.
There's a gold mine of performance to be found in most anything electronically controlled - if you're willing to run with scissors.
Me
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Posts: 41,900 |
or run outside of EPA parameters. I'm willing to run..... with scissors. Far, far, far outside of EPA parameters. Lol Dave, things are changing up here too. As of July 1, 2016, a "Commercial Vehicle" with a delete will no longer meet the Ontario Safety Standards requirements. Meaning that truck, will be off the road until the system has been restored to factory specifications. 
Paul.
"Kids who grow up hunting, fishing & trapping, do not mug little old Ladies"
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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After some answers here and other research it appears that spending $300-$400 will net me about 15-20 HP and a similar increase in torque with the engine I have and will require premium fuel. I can't see the benefit being worth the cost, plus paying 50 cents more per gallon for fuel.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,813
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 12,813 |
or run outside of EPA parameters. I'm willing to run..... with scissors. Far, far, far outside of EPA parameters. Lol Dave, things are changing up here too. As of July 1, 2016, a "Commercial Vehicle" with a delete will no longer meet the Ontario Safety Standards requirements. Meaning that truck, will be off the road until the system has been restored to factory specifications. There are guys that are starting to "ghost" the ECM of Class 8 vehicles -- basically they present a "dummy" ECM to the plug-in port. If the dealer or enforcement agency plugs in, everything shows A-OK, including speed limiter, but the real ECM tune is different. Also handy for modifying ELD's without an edit record.....
Sic Semper Tyrannis
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,090
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
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I put a Bully Dog on my 04 Chevy 5.3. A noticble difference in power, but not the gas milage. About the only reason I got it on there is for the temperature gauge that went bad in my dash.
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Posts: 1,813
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,813 |
Dave, I don't pretend to know that much about the 6.4 as I have a 6.0, but here are a couple of items for your consideration. I'm pretty sure you're going to need a tuner with any 'delete'kits, so factor that into your cost. EGR Cooler Delete DPF Race Pipe Thanks. I can make both of those items in my shop with stuff I have laying around. What I need is the delete compatible tuner. I understand that the tuners will be geared towards additional power/performance as well. I'm not apposed to that, I would just choose a lower level, mainly after programming corrections for these physical deletes. I can't stand having black engine oil. That EGR chit has to go. I also hate the DEF, my 08 doesn't used DEF cleaning fluid, it simply floods the cylinders with diesel, some of that fuel gets past the rings and down into the crank case. The oil level goes up over time due to fuel contamination from DEF cycles. If I'm going to keep this truck, that stuff is going away, lol. The 6.4's can be MONSTERS with just a few basic mods/deletes. I'm near positive 500HP/800Lbs is very attainable with them with nothing other than the basics and a good tune. http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/parts-accessories/0910dp-6-4l-power-stroke-power-recipes/
Last edited by k20350; 09/06/16.
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