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I've been blessed I have two sons that are now men. They both have turned out pretty danged good despite having a dad that tended to breathe fire perhaps a bit too often.

Christmas is coming up and they both have expressed a desire to have handguns

That's no problem

Mom has had stuff stashed away for them for sometime for when this day came

What I'd like to provide for them is training and knowledge in the use of said tools

There's the usual suspects thunder ranch etc.

But it's a growing industry

Providing them with a decent tool is not a problem on this end

Providing them with skilset is, Ive taken them as far as I can in what little I know

I'd like to get them some next level help & training. They're close already, and figure a trip together to learn skills hopefully would serve to increase the solid bond that exists already.

So for you guys that have btdt could I get some recon please as to shooting classes ?

They'll be some expensive involved as most likely they'll have to travel for said course, so I'd really like to send them to a good,one



So I'd really like to make sure they attend a decent course

There's a former state trooper that does some stuff in Las Vegas & that's a serious consideration but I'd appreciate the experiences you folks have had with training

Appreciate any advice you can offer


I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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I was really pleased with Gunsite Academy. I just took the 350 Pistol class back in March and it was well worth it.

I would recommend their 250 Pistol course for your boys. It's not cheap and it's a week long, but very worth it.

https://www.gunsite.com/classes/250-defensive-pistol-class/


"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same." - Ronald Reagan
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Never attended gunsite. Intended to but just never got around to it.

I have attended some other courses. One I can highly recommend is: https://pgpft.com/

Solid instruction no matter the level of participant. No BS. Lots of shooting and handling of firearms from holster/concealment.

Teaches at 3 or 4 different locations across the country.


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Contact Flave tactical instruction and ask about the influenced tactics course. It's hands on experience in tactical applications while shcidt faced


They even offer birthday specials


The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude


Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell


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I've been to a few of the big name schools, but the best instructor I've come across is John Farnam at Defensive Training International.

http://defense-training.com/


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gunsite is in my neck of the woods. the gooberment even sends their hitters there.


THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Thank you gents

It appears I've got homework.

Knew in advance I'm gonna spend some loot x2

But imo&e training can be a more valuable gift than equipment.

Love those guys, they make me feel incredibly lucky & proud to be their dad


I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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A local deputy sheriff got approved for a free ride to Gunsite, and is he pumped!! I can't wait to hear his experience when he comes back..


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I took one of vickers classes. I enjoyed that he is a good instructor and a pretty down to earth and funny guys


The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude


Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell


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Shooting schools like Gunsite and Thunder Ranch offer a whole lot more than just the experience of shooting on a square range.

If I could afford it, I'd go to Gunsite every year ..... it's worth going just to see who you might get to rub elbows with.

ETA: If you can swing it - go with 'em.

Last edited by 41magfan; 08/23/16.

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Would one of you guys please go to this class and tell me how it is? LOL
It's right down the road from me.

http://www.costaludus.com/index.php?route=training/view&path=73_74


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Originally Posted by 2legit2quit
...What I'd like to provide for them is training and knowledge in the use of said tools

There's the usual suspects thunder ranch etc.

But it's a growing industry

Providing them with a decent tool is not a problem on this end

Providing them with skilset is, Ive taken them as far as I can in what little I know

I'd like to get them some next level help & training. They're close already, and figure a trip together to learn skills hopefully would serve to increase the solid bond that exists already….

So I'd really like to make sure they attend a decent course...


I can't comment on the young instructors (Costa, etc.) but I've done most of the old time schools (Farnam, Hackathorn, Ayoob, Thunder Ranch, Gunsite and the late Ray Chapman). It seems like everyone coming back from the Sandbox is a deep, dark ninja-of-death, Ranger-Seal-Recon-Delta-operator and opens their own shooting school to teach the "new technique" of survival. As young men, perhaps your sons would like some of these younger instructors. In the "old days" almost all of the schools were started by competitive shooters (John Shaw, Bill Rogers and Mickey Fowler-Mike Dalton-Mike Fichman) and many of the SpecOps organizations sent teams to these guys for training (one well known competitive shooter/gunsmith lost his 1st wife to one of the Seals that he was training!). None of these guys had ever heard a shot fired in anger (well, maybe Rogers as an x-FBI agent had). JMO, but having "seen the elephant" is not a criteria for a superb weapons instructor.

Farnam, Ayoob and Hackathorn (and most of the young-gun instructors) are on-site instructors----of course, Gunsite and Thunder Ranch are static destinations. The "bonding experience" that you're wanting for your sons will be enhanced by attending one of the static destination schools IMO. Between the two, TR is more modern, newer and Clint Smith is superior to any of the personalities at Gunsite; however, Gunsite is bigger, has more facilities and is the Mecca of shooting schools…….the added bonus (if you and/or your sons are Cooper fans) is that Janel still has an open house for all of the 250 class members at the Sconce (Cooper's house) where students are free to roam in Jeff's gun-room, library/office, etc. She is in her 90's and who knows how long that will continue. The instruction and curriculum at Gunsite is superb. You can't go wrong with either TR or GS IMO.

Good luck with your decision.


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Originally Posted by 2legit2quit
I'd like to get them some next level help & training. They're close already, and figure a trip together to learn skills hopefully would serve to increase the solid bond that exists already.

There are a lot of different levels of training; the best one depends on the student's experience level. Some classes offered by the big-name instructors are billed as basic, but they move very quickly and you need to have draw stroke and manipulations down cold or you’re going to hold everyone else back. So if your sons are starting out cold, then have a good local instructor get them up to speed stuff in the way that it's commonly taught: the four-point draw stroke, the Isoceles stance, the thumbs-forward grip, tap-rack-bang, lock-rip-work, etc.

Once they’re good to go on that, then a big-name class makes more sense. I’ve trained with John Farnham, Ken Hackathorn, Larry Vickers, and Pat McNamara. I’ve also trained with the guys at InSights Training Center. Each one had strengths and weaknesses, and they all cost about the same. Fortunately, those guys all travel, so you should be able to find something pretty close to home.

As for hardware, give them each a Glock 19 with factory night sights, six magazines, and a couple of cases of ammo.


Okie John


Originally Posted by Brad
If Montana had a standing army, a 270 Win with Federal Blue Box 130's would be the standard issue.
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I've taken some training with Suarez International, and highly recommend their courses. Their focus is on fighting and mindset, not just shooting.

What okie john said for hardware; can't go wrong there. Machining the slides for red dot sights should be considered too (but not the MOS system).

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Originally Posted by Yondering
I've taken some training with Suarez International, and highly recommend their courses. Their focus is on fighting and mindset, not just shooting.

What okie john said for hardware; can't go wrong there. Machining the slides for red dot sights should be considered too (but not the MOS system).


What's wrong with the MOS system? I've got several hundred rounds through a G19 MOS with a Leupold DeltaPoint Pro installed and have had no problems. I did use blue loctite and followed the instructions, however, and from what I've read failing to do either leads to predictable results.

The reason I went with the MOS is that I expect my Glock to last much longer than any electronic sight, and I'd rather not have the slide permanently altered.

Last edited by Oregon45; 08/24/16.
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What about 'flave precision.

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Appreciate all the replies

But particularly see the wisdom in okie johns reco to get them local training first and master some basics before sending them outside to some of the name institutions

It would seem to enhance their enjoyment and those such as Leo that are farther along in the disciplines

gmoats yours was a very informative post as well, tho I appreciate everyone's insights and recos

I was a big Cooper fan, and sadly it makes me aware of I've not done quite enough for my lads to appreciate the unique qualities of the late Colonel.

Though my oldest did receive a copy of the art of the rifle with his second center fire rifle, a 30-06 of course


I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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Originally Posted by Oregon45
Originally Posted by Yondering
I've taken some training with Suarez International, and highly recommend their courses. Their focus is on fighting and mindset, not just shooting.

What okie john said for hardware; can't go wrong there. Machining the slides for red dot sights should be considered too (but not the MOS system).


What's wrong with the MOS system? I've got several hundred rounds through a G19 MOS with a Leupold DeltaPoint Pro installed and have had no problems. I did use blue loctite and followed the instructions, however, and from what I've read failing to do either leads to predictable results.

The reason I went with the MOS is that I expect my Glock to last much longer than any electronic sight, and I'd rather not have the slide permanently altered.


2 things - the sight is less secure, and it sits higher, harder to get irons to co-witness. Both can be addressed, it's just less ideal.

OP - sorry for the thread sidetrack.

Last edited by Yondering; 08/25/16.
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Originally Posted by 2legit2quit
...see the wisdom in okie johns reco to get them local training first and master some basics before sending them outside to some of the name institutions….I was a big Cooper fan, and sadly it makes me aware of I've not done quite enough for my lads to appreciate the unique qualities of the late Colonel.

Though my oldest did receive a copy of the art of the rifle with his second center fire rifle, a 30-06 of course


….There's probably some wisdom in some basic local instruction prior to going to a school, however I wouldn't worry too much about that if sending them to Gunsite. In our "basic" class we had everything from advanced law enforcement trainers to people who had literally never fired a gun-----their system and personnel worked everyone through their program and they had enough instructors that individual attention pretty much evened-out the experiences. The one obstacle that NO school can deal with is someone showing up to impress them with how much they know and how good they are. We had one of those at GS and another at TR…….Clint uses left-handed sarcasm to imbue humility while GS does enough man-against-man exercises to embarrass the arrogance out of someone. Either would be a great choice, unfortunately, TR fills up so quickly that you almost have to plan a couple of years in advance!!


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The best combination of personality and training content:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sj6bmEAIzQ


The blindness from subjectivity is indistinguishable from the darkness of ignorance.
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