Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Postal match instructions

OK. Here we go!

Four categories:

1) Any pre-1960 .22RF built under the Savage Corporation umbrella (to include Stevens post-1920 merger with Savage), original barrel/stock/trigger (cosmetic alterations ok), any sights (factory iron, aftermarket iron, scope, laser, red dot, etc.)- 50 yards, any rest. Target: official NRA 50 yard small bore. Course of fire: 5 shots on five separate bullseyes, for group. Smallest 5-shot group out of the five targets counts as your score.

2) Any pre-1960 Savage .22RF (per above), factory sights only- 25 yards offhand. Target: official NRA 75 foot small bore. 5 shots on five separate bullseyes, for score. Highest score of the five counts as your score.

3) Any Post-1960 Savage/Stevens branded .22 RF rifle, any sights (per above)- 50 yards, any rest. Same 50 yard NRA target. Same scoring as with (1) above

4) Any pre-1960 .22 centerfire (M1899/99 .22HP's, M19/M23 .22 Hornet's, etc.), any rest- 50 yards open sights, or 100 yards scoped. 50 yard NRA target. Ammunition: shooter's choice. Same scoring (group size) as (1) above.

I ordered the targets from the National Target Company. The minute they get here I'll announce it, and the match begins.

Length of time: 30 days from announcement of target arrival.

Protocols:

A) No re-entry. One set of five bullseyes per entrant, per category. You may enter as many of the categories as you wish.

B) Target scoring is on the honor system. Photographic proof is encouraged. We're all friends here- if we can't trust each other we are doomed. Pics are within everyone's means these days, and are fun to view. If you can't manage pics, return the targets to me and I'll post them for you.

Cost: $6, which should (I hope!) cover the cost of the targets and postage- for one category or all four if you enter them. Flat fee. If I mis-calculated something and I go deeply in the hole, I'll pass the hat later. Little over-runs I'll just eat. PM me for my address, PM yours. Payment via check, MO, Paypal gift (preferred), bags of nickels, Confederate money, dead possums- all ok.

Prizes: A "laurel, and hardy handshake". (Movie that's from? )

Let's keep this simple and fun, fellas. Let's show the world what our old treasures can do!

I'll be shooting with a 1933NRA, scoped for the benchrest stage, a Savage 6/Stevens 87 tenite stock for the 25 yard stage, Savage M1899H .22HP aperture sights 50 yards centerfire stage.

You might want to think again about the "dead possums" payment.

Blazing Saddles!

I'll try to get into all four categories. PM sent

What is the best/easiest way to get powder burns off a target ?......just wondering...


Mike

Shoot through a cotton sock, that's what I did, Joe.

The targets FINALLY arrived today. Sheesh, from 45 minutes away via FedEx, it took a week. I figured it was worth the $10 shipping to avoid the traffic hassles. Now I'm not so sure.

Since we're getting a late-ish start, lets say the deadline to shoot your course of fire will be the second Saturday in October. 10/8/16.

So far we have:
Steve99
Docost
JeffG
Joe Martin
gwrench
colodog
KiethNyst
myself


Hurry up and get your entry PM'ed to me and show us your stuff. Don't be a-scared!

Gary, I would do #3, but not sure a Savage-Anschutz sporter qualifies in the category.

Kieth, I think it does qualify. It's Savage branded, no? I kinda had you in mind when I created that category. If anybody shows up with a recent Savage .22 bolt gun I think they would give you a run for your money from what I hear.

I'm kinda hoping Gene trims all our butts with a 1903 slide action!

I'll play but can only shoot #3 with a current production bolt Savage.
I traded the bull barrel accu-trigger model away so it'll be the cheaper non acu-trigger sporter weight, plastic stock...

Kieth- indeed it qualifies. I kinda had you in mind when i created the category. See, already you have competition!

Gary, PM me your paypal email address and I'll paypal you the $6.
This is rifle:

I have colodog's tired old bull barrel accu-trigger so I will play #3.

Add Calhoun and Rick99 to the list!

I feel like a carnival barker at a shooting gallery trying to drum up business!

I found me a ripe possum road kill so I guess I'll give the contest a try. Mail don't go till Tuesday. Guess I better put it in a zip-lock bag.

Gary, you might want to clarify how to measure for group and score on a bullseye.

Measure for group with a pair of calipers- center to center. If you don't have calipers, measure with a ruler and if it's close to someone else's group size, we'll figure out a way to mic them. If push came to shove, send it back to me and I'll measure for you.

For score, just add them up. With 5 shots per target, off hand, it should be pretty easy to add the score. Bullet holes touching the next highest ring count as the higher number. Shots outside the 5 ring normally don't count as anything. Let's say any shot outside the 5 ring counts as a 4, no matter how far away.

Remember, this is pretty much the honor system-- post your results here, do try to make a pic of your target if you can. A gun in the pic too is always welcome eye candy.

Question on rifles...I'm planning to shoot with a 29B and a 4C bolt. Both models were made into the 1960s. I don't have an actual date on either one. Is it safe to assume they are pre 1960 for the match?

Brian- I should think so.

Add oldotter to the list. We's in trouble now, boss.

I have a boat load of extra targets and envelopes. Since it appears the entries are petering out, if anybody wants a couple extra targets for sighting in, or whatever, just give me the word. I'll send 'em out free.

I'll be firing my targets next weekend I think.

I was unable to locate a set of target scope blocks for my 1933NRA. Then I cast a sidelong glance at my Krag single shot varmint rifle and sure enough, its scope blocks work a treat on the Savage. Second hurdle was replacing the broken cross hair wires in a Litschert 10x target scope I picked up recently. A $10 piece of .0005" (yes, half a thousandth) tungsten wire, and an hour of crosseyed frustration later- problem solved. Phew! Saved myself a $100 repair bill. I initially figured the cost of repairs, plus the initial cost of the scope would put me into into it for around 1/2 of its real worth. The deal looks even sweeter now!



The Winchester 52 Pre-A took a shine to the M1933NRA. They are getting along nicely together. Perhaps they will produce an interesting offspring? I shall name it "Savwin".

Interestingly, the trigger on the 1933 is very sweet. Better than on the one I had a few years ago. Easily the equal of the 52, which is saying something. If the Savage will hit aspirins at 50 yards like the Winchester will, it'll earn itself a permanent home here in Chez Gnoahhh!

I was going to wait till tomorrow to let you know I haven't gotten mine yet. You know we are 35 miles apart, USPS probably sent them to Texas, via Wyoming, with a layover in Tampa, Joe.

Here's the .22 I'll shoot the 25 yard offhand stage with:



Stevens 87A, Tenite stock. I call it the third Tappet Brother- you know, after Click and Clack the Tappet Brothers. It's that odd "click-clack" action of the semi-auto bolt function. Never mind...

My Gramps bought the gun at a country public estate auction in north central PA, back in 1962, for $1.50, because the butt stock was broken clean in half behind the pistol grip. A little PC-7 epoxy and he had it good as new. It was the gun he kept around the house for me to use for "vermin control" when I came to visit . Hah! The only ammo he allowed me to shoot out of it was .22 birdshot. (We called it "rat shot".) I guess he really wasn't too concerned about the vermin. Many a starling I cracked at from multiple yards away with the fervent hope that a lone tiny Golden BB would somehow miraculously find its mark. Heady stuff for a 9 year old whose armament at home consisted of a Daisy BB gun. (My Dad knew better than to trust me with a .22, as my favorite target of choice was my little sister's butts. On reflection, perhaps too Gramps had keen insight into my soul also...) Shortly after, Gramps gifted the gun to me and I was off and running.

I just realized I've owned this gun for 53 years. I guess it's a keeper.

Targets received. Now to find a time to punch holes.

Got mine, too.

Gary, care package got here. I like the color of that upper, Joe.

I took my 29B and 4C to the range today to make sure they are dialed in for the match, and I made a terrible discovery! I'm getting old! I can't see the target at 25 yards with open sights. This is not good!

Try a pair of 1.25x drugstore reading glasses. That's how I deal with open sights, kinda!

Got mine, Thank You.

I'll be shooting this weekend.

Me too.

I shot my categories today, Cat 1 an Cat 2. The cat 2 was shot with a Savage Model 1914 iron sights (Lyman tang site) and Cat 1 was a Savage pre-war Model 5 BA with a side mounted Weaver 29S tube, fine crosshairs. Real happy with the Model 5 and the 1914 well, it is what it is. Most of them stayed on the paper.

For the record on the category one target measured group was 0.756 without subtracting bullet diameter, 3X's and 2 10's by my reckoning on the center target.

The Category 2 target looks like upper left for group size at 2.90 and lower right for score at 21. Those suckers are hard to see.

This was fun. Thanks Gary for putting this up for us.

"The Category 2 target ... lower right for score at 21."

You forgot the 4 points each for the other 2 rounds...= 29.

Thanks for the help Rick! Please show me as scoring 29 for the Cat 2 target. Ya never know. A half a possum is better than...

Bravo!

It was too windy to shoot today. That, plus a possum made me take him shopping for new underwear.

Rifles used.

Cat#2; Off hand at 30 yds (only shot 4 do to time):

Cat #1; /Pre`60, .22, scoped, 50 yds


Cat#4; Pre`60, .22 centerfire, open sight, 50 yds
URL=http://s242.photobucket.com/user/sav99age/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160920_153436.jpg.html][/URL]


Didn't shoot Cat#3,the post `60...found I had no rife. Do have a 1961 pistol but I didn't think I could hit the target.

Anyone have info on the military .22 Hornet Match ammo I used?
What was the government buying match hornet for and to shoot in what? I think it was made in the `80's.

Nicely done, Rick! Your data is duly entered into the Grand Tally Sheet.

I never saw a box of Hornets like those, Rick. I too would like to know more about them.

I rounded up a small prize to go to the presenter of the smallest group in category #1. I only have one, and it's my call as to which category shall take it. (Actually, I consulted with my team of judges, headed by one Pogo Posssum.)

That box had the military collectors at the Kansas Cartridge Collectors show scratching their heads, also.

Gary, no blocks on either of my 1933's. A fat face and high stock does not make for easy shooting.

Time to find some blocks for the Hornet. I think I'll be putting some more rounds down range with it.

Nice shootin' Rick. Not bad for old guys handicapped with primitive weapons and optics.

Well, I carved out this afternoon to punch some holes in the postal papers. It turned out to be a lovely day, much cooler than it's been, with a slight breeze. Yesterday was clean-up day at the club, we spent a couple hours on the back-stops, so everything was ready...except when i got there I had forgotten the targets (dooh!)!!

I'm sure these won't qualify since they're on unsanctioned targets, but I'm blaming it on the possum and entering it anyway.

My 1899H x 22HP with widefield 2-7x, at 100yds. Ammo is Norma brass with 55g Buffalo Arms .227 projectiles + 26.7g BL-C(2).

This also served as my trials for seating length, and as expected the longest OAL won the day for me. Best group is 1.98" C-C, next is 1.986, and 2.11, so it's a very consistent 2MOA shooter.

And since I'm disqualified for the wrong targets anyway, I thought I'd enter my other non-factory 22 centerfire 99s;

1899 (actually strted life as a saddle ring, but now has a 24" barrel) x 219 Zipper, also scoped with widefielf 2-7x, at 100 yds

Ammo; R-P brass, 50g Nosler BT (moly'd)+ 24.1g H322

Best group was 1.88"C-C, so not much better than my 22HP. This is one that I put the free-float forearm bracket on, and have had much better days with it...but the 15lb trigger beat me up today.

And finally my 99E with a factory barrel (from Numerichs, back in the day...so technically it's all factory), topped with Minox ZA-5 2-10x

Ammo; R-P brass, 52g Berger FBHP Varmint + 33-1/2g H4895

Best group 1.25", then 1.29", again a very consistent shooter.

Nice shooting Jeff. That's a nice looking E. How do you like the Minox scope? I have one of their binocs and find it very good for the money.

Believe it or not, my best groups came with my Springfield/Savage 187S semi. Might have something to do with the scope. Shot a pretty decent 25 yard off hand with the 187S, then realized there wasn't a category for post '60 25 yard off hand, so it didn't count, Joe.





Somehow I lost my 50yard bench pic, with the 1919.

Joe and I had a blast yesterday. (Well, a pop anyway- it was all .22 rimfire noise.)

Joe, hard at work:



My best 50 yard benchrest target, M19-33 NRA, 10x Litschert scope:



My best 25 yard offhand open sights, pre-1960. 1948 vintage M87 Stevens:



There was little wind, clear skies, and temps in the 70's. The biggest distraction was a herd of cows that were curious as heck about what we were doing in their pasture. One knocked my mirror askew and stuck her head in the open window of my truck. We both went home with cowshit-caked tires, and one of us with the same stuff plastered to a shoe sole. Ahem. (It wasn't me.)

Those of you who know me won't be surprised to learn that my offhand match shooting days are behind me. Arthritis in the back and neck preclude that. But by golly I did it, and had fun. I stood up to the line with the magazine tube stuffed with 15 cartridges, rapped them out lickity split, re-charged the tube with ten more and completed that relay in about 10 seconds! I used that particular rifle because, well, Gramps would have smiled at it.

Joe, I don't have pics of your 50 yard bench target with the M1919. If you don't, may I suggest you dig out your target and snap a pic of it.

I have three Minox ZA scopes (steer clear of the ZX series, IMHO), and their HD binocs. All are super-clear, and best in the price range for brightness and edge-to-edge clarity, again IMHO... But I also just got a used Leupold VXR-firedot, man I like that illuminated dot reticle!! But in comparison the edges on the Leupold are a little distorted compared with the Minox.

Joe, Gary, We need to see some other photos of that manlicher stocked Savage!

I received the Colorado contingent's targets. Here are the results for Colodog and Gwrench:

50 yards benchrest, post 1960 Savage:

Gwrench:




Colodog:



I'll let them supply the commentary if they choose to do so.

Jeff, I'll let "the Great Unwashed Masses" decide whether to allow your entries in the centerfire leg. What say y'all?

Would that be Joe's M1919 you're referring to?

I think it looks like an 03A3. It's a 1919 NRA Match. That didn't mean it was a match rifle, it was just legal for all NRA matches, Joe.

I think the Zipper should qualify based on longevity of that wildcat. Not sure about the 22-250. How long was that wildcatted before Remington made it factory?

If Jeff wins with either of these, he has to buy the beer.

.22-250 was wildcatted from the .250-3000 case almost as soon as Savage introduced it. Some say Charles Newton was monkeying around with a .22 of .227 diameter on that case before he changed his mind and made it a .25. God, I wish he had kept it a .227!

Almost from the get-go A.O.Niedner necked the .250 down to .22, as did Harvey Donaldson, with some dispute over who was first. Fast forward to the 1930's and Jerry Gebby codified the wildcat to pretty much the same dimensions we use today, called it the ".22 Varminter", and then had the temerity to copyright it. For a while anybody who chambered the cartridge had to pay him a small royalty. (I owned two Gebby-built HiWalls, one in R2 Lovell, the other a .219 Donaldson Wasp.) In that case, the .22-250 far out dates the .219 Zipper which debuted in the mid-30's.

Remember, almost all .22 centerfires back in those years around WWI were .227's, based on the dimensions of the original .22WCF bores, and a couple really oddball Stevens and Maynard .22 cartridges which were the trendsetters. It wasn't until the guys who developed the .22 Hornet used Springfield M1922 rimfire barrels (which were .223) that smaller .22 bullets became fashionable. Those first Hornets circa 1930-31 were then the trendsetters for the .22 wildcatting that became known as the Golden Era during the 1930's. I don't know why exactly the shift happened almost immediately to .224 diameter, but it does explain why we have some oddball .223 diameter Hornet bullets to this day.

Newton did bring out a pretty rare chambering around the time his .250-3000 was off and running- the .22 Newton, based on the .30-06 case, which again used the old .227 style bullets. P.O.Ackley also had a couple wildcats based on the .227 bullets, too. All those .227 wildcats were real screamers, and never found favor because of the reputation for being barrel burners after a few rounds, proper propellants for them not existing until much much later.

Great targets Colodog! We need to know your hardware specifics!

I'm chasing you in that post-'60 scoped division, and Rick's pre-'60 25 yd off hand title too. But next weekend is out for me, when's our time window close?

I will have to check the car. I only brought 3 in, I think Mallow ate it. Mallow is the cow that tried to kiss Gary through his window. When she was born, her mother dropped her in a creek and left. My BIL found her, and Doc Schultz bottle raised her. She thinks she is a 1200 pound lap dog. She knows my wife's Tahoe that I was driving.

Jeff, here's my 1919. Rick said they made about 11000 units the first year. I think this one is 7978, so it would stand to reason it's a first year production.





Randy, 99guy, came up to my farm to shoot one weekend. This is the 25 yard bench target I shot with it. The first ten shots I fired. Wish I could have done this off hand, Joe.

Found the 50 yard target, nothing to write home about, might be runner up for the dead skunk award, Joe.

Plenty of time left. 10/8/16, at midnight. (Now there'll be someone out there that night shooting his targets by the light of his car headlights...)

Make no mistake, colodog is a much better shot than I am. His weakness is he gets bored with a gun that shoots well and gives no drama. He loves a project!

That was the situation that led to a deal where I acquired his bull barrel Savage Mark II with accutrigger. He ended up with a generic Mark II with standard trigger. It needed some love but in the end it may need more than he can give it.

I'm just hoping for a "Participation Award" for my 1.185" group.
The Rifle I shot is a current model MKII sporter weight barrel, non accutrigger, 6x burris, AO. CCI Standard ammo.
My recommendation is, if you want a current model don't try to save money, GET THE ACCU-TRIGGER!
The cheaper trigger is so heavy from Savage as to be barely usable.
Rifle Basix has a trigger part that helped a bit but it can only do so much and I modified it as well but it's inferior non the less.
I have some work to do...

Gwrench was shooting the heavy barrel accutrigger model with a Mueller 4.5-14 AO mildot scope, CCI Standard ammo.
It'll do for golf balls at 100yds and he handled it very well at 50yds, no surprise.

Thanks Gnoahhh, for running the match and posting the results so far.

It's fun to see the classy older rifles shot so well too.

That is a very neat Savage trainer Joe. That should get a prize for best looking .22

Thanks Jeff, I went to an auction to see a Spiegel and brought them both home, Joe.

I was starting to wonder if I would make the deadline. My daughter and her husband had a baby girl on 8/29. Joan and I went down to the twin cities for a couple weeks. Then the day before we were ready to leave my son's wife delivered twins (boy and girl) 6 weeks early. Finally got back last night and was hoping for calm morning ... got it. Here is my post-60 target, Savage-Anschutz 54 sporter.

Keith, next year I'm going to try and match that with my 1919. Nice shootin, Joe.

Keith, are you sure you're measuring them correctly? Unless my eyes deceive me, that group is a lot smaller than .440". It appears that the calipers are positioned from the outside-to-center of the farthest holes, when it should be outside-to-inside of the farthest holes (which translates to center-to-center). It looks like a .440 group but the calipers are speaking to me differently.

Any way you cut it, that's some mighty fine shooting! What ammo did you use?

Gary, ammo was Remington Eley Match. The .440 is outside to outside, in the pic below the best target I wrote: .440 - .220 = .220 group. That right hole edge is hard to tell, it's sort of flat. I put the caliper back on, middle-to-middle and got 0.244. So it's somewhere between .220 and .244.

This was the first time I fired high quality .22 ammo through the rifle. With CCI SV, the best I've done ins .350-.400; clearly the quality ammo makes a difference.

Glad I didn't enter the post-`60.

Gulp, me too. (Although I have generated a bunch of similar bughole groups with my pre-war M52.)

Ok, I see the equal sign in your notation now. I'll enter your score as .220".

Ammo does make a difference, indeed. Only once in my life did I find cheap ammo to perform with the best. It was with Federal Champions back in the 80's. I bought a couple boxes one day, found them to shoot equally well as Eley Tenex in my M1922 M2 Springfield, went back the next day and bought every box of that same lot # they had.

An old smallbore competitor told me once that he took a micrometer with him when he bought .22 ammo. If he found some, from any maker, that mic'ed .225 bullet diameter, he would buy every one they had.

Wow! Good shooting Keith, that will be hard to beat.

Way to go Kieth, .220" !

Real nice shooting!

Here's my attempt to be in the same league as Kieth... sorry Kieth, I'm in a different league, different park, and different game, the possum is all yours Brother! My best group is 3X BIGGER .6325" c-c!

the equipment: Savage-Anschutz 54 sporter, weaver 15x, Lapua Center-X

Jeff, when I shot I had absolutely perfect conditions, no wind and cloudy. I first fired 10 rounds out of that box of Remington Eley Match on a plain paper target, just to season the bore a bit from cleaning. I could tell after 5 shots that the ammo was going to shoot better than any .22 ammo I'd ever shot before. All-in-all, the stars just lined up for me the morning I shot. I doubt I could repeat that group if I fired 100 more times.

I've never tried possum

Here's a pic of the rifle. It has an older Leupold Vari-x II 3x9 AO on it. I sure wish the fellow I bought it from had not put on the recoil pad.

That's a beautiful rifle!

Yup, what he said!

This is tough! Not only finding the time, but holding still gets harder and harder. Savage 4C, the one I grew up shooting, with factory open sights.



I count #1: 37, #2: 21, #3: 36, #4: 25, #5: 27. Is that right?
I may not have time for the any sight bench rest shoot.