Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mule Deer: Lapua 6.5 Creedmoor Brass SMALL RIFLE PRIMER?

Not sure if I remember exactly how this went with Lapua and 308 brass. They had or have 308 Palma (small primer) and 308 Winchester (large primer). There would be a large pool to work from with the 308 shooters. Probably not so much with the 6.5 Creedmoor.

I have a pretty good-shooting 6.5 that will shoot .25-.3 MOA for five shots when conditions are good, and easily averages .4 or so with its best loads. I can't tell any difference between Hornady and Lapua brass as far as accuracy. Dropping the charge .5 gr in the Lapua gives identical velocityand POI. Everyone says the Lapua brass will last way longer, but I can't verify that yet.

I made mine from .22-250 Lapua brass, necked up and fireformed. It comes up a bit short of OAL, but it isn't an issue.

Exactly this. No more, no less. Hot loads are the reasoning.

For those interested, I just checked 10 of the recent batch of Hornady Creedmoor brass I purchased a few months ago. The necks ALL varied less than .001" in thickness, which is excellent. The lightest case weighed 151.0 grains and the heaviest 152.6, with a standard deviation of .53, also very good. This is comparable to the consistency of Lapua brass, and I might have to buy some more!

I've known that for 30 years....most guys I've mentioned that to won't believe it, so I quit talking about it. They can find out on their own.

The demographic this, and the Palma 308 brass, is marketed to really doesnt give a damn about what cold weather hunters need. For them, there are plenty of large primer options.

Not all matches are shot in the balmy southern states...

Agreed...but its quite obvious that this has not been an issue in these circumstances or the demand wouldnt be there.

fwiw,
They are making the 6.5 Creedmoor into a MODERN .45-70 Government...

You'll have to check your bolt, firing pin, and ammunition before you find out if it is safe to shoot. Granted it took a 130 years to for the 45-70 to develop the same necessity for having three separate sections in most reloading manuals. It is kind of ironic that Hornady attempted to fix THAT problem with the .450 Marlin.

Who would have thought their run away hit would have been shot in the foot by progress...

Wonder if we'll see a belted Creedmoor... This is getting funny.

Full speed ahead...

Regards, Matt.

In the meantime I'll just keep using inferior brass....

That 6mm Creedmoor just seems like a fun and easy round. No flies on the 6.5mm version either, but the 6mm looks like a rather simple alternative to the 6XC.

I don't really understand this comparison at all. The Creedmoor and the introduction of Lapua brass w/ small primer pockets is nothing like the .45-70 Gov. There are not going to be three sections in any loading manual.

I get the argument about the small primer potentially being a negative for a cold weather hunting cartridge. But the Creedmoor itself is pretty standardized. Also, if you don't like the small primer the only thing you need to do is not use the Lapua brass. It's really easy to get Hornady and Nosler in the standard config. Or you could take Lapua 308 w/ large pocket and reform it if you must have Lapua.

This is the cartridge I have by far my most experience with. I'm more often on the CM forum than here. There is a long standing thread about converting Lapua brass that is very informative. Easy process. What a lot of guys were doing was purposely selecting the 308 Palma for the parent cartridge, I'm guessing that those are the same guys that put the bug in Lapua's bonnet enough that they started making this brass in the first place...and prior to this the long standing belief was Lapua would NEVER make Creedmoor brass.

Most of the load workups are near identical to the large primer versions. Lots of guys find little difference in performance often difficult to even differentiate SD/ES. There will not need to be a separate section in the loading manual for this cartridge.

Just another offering. Perhaps more useful in a specific application but hardly going to be the death nail of the Creedmoor.

fwiw,
It does not exactly amaze me that you don't follow...

In short the loads that might GO for SRP Lapua Brass will need to be matched to either SFP Bolts or middle of the road Bolts like BAT at .070". If you don't follow that I'm not wasting any further bread crumbs on you... To be honest I am past caring. Small Rifle Primers and pistol powder is likely the future of the CM anyway for anyone who can't read sign... You girls will be to 3500 fps with 140s before you know it. Or you'll be reading braille. Either way you have other things on or maybe through your mind. Good luck..

Familiar with forming brass. Prefer the .22-250 Lapua route but whatever...

Who said it was the death NELL (NOT NAIL) for the Creedmoor?

Just another offering indeed...

Well now I am definitely not following. But having a good laugh. I know your done trying, and I don't blame you..I'm kinda dumb. Maybe some other charitable soul can learn this noob about getting 3500 FPS with small primers, pistol powder, and special bolts.

Is the special bolt because of the pistol powder or, why exactly? I'm going to go and warn the guys that have been shooting the Palma conversions what a brusin their cruizen for.

I thought I was flying when I got my 140's up to 2900 with RL-17..but if I can get another 600fps with HS-6 or powerpistol I already have a bunch for my nine and believe me when I say I am ALL ears.

Matt,
As you know I used Lapua Palma brass with the small primer for my 6.5 SLR.
Im running it in a early 90s Stolle Teddie.Thats got a nice big fat fireing pin.
This is from before the small fireing pin craze hit.
It goes bang every time.
I ran 22 CHeetahs for decades based on 308 BR brass with the small primer and never recall having any problems either.
Nice old 40x with the sloppy sloppy firing pin and a Stolle Teddy with the big pin as well....
The thing is.
It was and is pretty much always above 40 degress when im usuing it.
I think a 6.5 Creedmore with a small primer is a great idea.
Lapua should get a attaboy.
Heck, I might even build one now for my next 1000 yard rifle.
Anyone who uses small primers on 308 size cases for any kind of serious hunting is a [bleep] retard and should be banned from owning guns....
...How was that Bob?

dave

Dave, I believe you answered my question about the firing pin "issue". Thanks.

Yeah, but with good brass, you might have hit that little dot instead of missing it three times.

Better luck next time.

Dave,
Follow where YOU are coming from as a shooter and a hand loader. The 6.5 CM was not exactly aimed at that market from the beginning. My initial concern was the combination of shooters who bought a rifle chambered in a cartridge that shot well enough they did not have to reload(to say nothing of hand loaders) and now we are throwing a Small Rifle Primer into the mix... All in all I am past giving a flock at this point and suspect the Darwin Awards will get this point across in a far more expeditious fashion than I can concisely put into words...

Having talked to several who would disagree rather strongly with your comment on the Small Rifle Primers(47 in particular) and large rifle firing pins I suppose you pays your money and takes your chances. I was concerned about the BAT .070" firing pin diameter with the 47, however, Bruce Thom, Mr. Scott, and I think Dave all said the tolerance on the custom BAT largely negated the necessity of the BR Firing pin. I honestly don't know... That said I'll err on the side of caution when listening to that crowd. Granted some might consider it buying Greg Tannel a new pair of shoes, however, I've been impressed with everything I've seen him do... Cheap insurance.

benny,
You have been insulted and clearly you are still not tracking. I would avoid the pistol powder in all seriousness.

John,
I have been patently amazed at what Hornday Ammunition is doing out of the box in my customer's AX MC and AX .308 Rifles chambered 6.5 CM...

As far as the brass initial dimensions have not been the issue. It has been the cases response to repeated loadings. Specifically loose primer pockets. I have more experience with their .338 Lapua brass than I do their 6.5 CM Brass, however, if you look at the AMP settings the dichotomy in hardness between Hornady and Lapua is significant... fwiw.

ScenarShooter,
Gee, a wallet group. Never thought to go down range, cut one out, sign it and bring it back to show what you, GA Precision, and chance can do for THREE SHOTS... WOW. A GA Precision Rifle no less. Just had to rub it in... If I hit the lottery one of these days...

I have had to bush firing pins in several rifles so that small rifle primers could be used at high pressures. That alone is enough to make me want avoid them. I just don't see the point.
The 308 brass Remington made with small primer pockets was brass which was intended to be formed to 22 and 6mm BR. This was a tedious process which resulted in brass which thick and difficult to work with. A person had to want to do it when the PPC was so easy.
One fellow competitor, Nobby Uno, formed brass for his BR from 22-250. This, of course, used large rifle primers. Nobby shot a complete season using small primers in LV and large primers in HV and the difference was barely noticeable (less the .010 moa for the season aggregate). He decided there was no reason to bother with the BR brass.
Generally speaking, I like Lapua bras but I have no problem using something else. In one 6.5x55, the best score I ever shot was using Remington brass (neck turned, mind you).
I find both Norma and Federal to be too soft but both are dimensionally good and I am happy enough to use them. I can't load these as hot as I can Lapua or Winchester but, for hunting rifles, I don't have to. If a particular target rifle requires higher pressures to shoot well, I'll use the tougher brass. Anyway, for whatever reason, Lapua is on a small primer kick. For those who like it, this is fine, for those who don't there are many options. GD

For what it's worth, the last two builds I had done on Remington 700 rifles that were intended to shoot small rifle primers both had to have the pins bushed by Gre-Tan. They cratered primers even with moderate loads. Once they came back from Greg, all was right with the world. One rifle is a 6.5x47L and I deliberated a lot on that chambering versus the Creedmoor. In the end, I chose the Lapua because of the increased flexibility with a 2.82" magazine box, as I wanted to be sure I could touch the lands with any 6.5mm bullet. It's funny though, because I later wound up going with a DBM setup on that rifle and there would have been plenty of room for the Creedmoor to make lands with any bullet available. Components would have been a bit cheaper and factory loads much more plentiful. No complaints regarding the performance of the 6.5x47L though.....