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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,731
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,731 |
Doesn't sound workable to me.. but I'd sign up to shoot the guns. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/31/boeing-wildfire-bullet-gun-patentBoeing has come up with a new idea for fighting forest fires: shoot at them.
The aerospace company was awarded a patent this summer for what the application described as an “artillery shell comprising: an external surface; a cavity disposed within the external surface; a fire-retarding material disposed within the cavity; and a trigger configured to release the fire-retarding material.”
Basically, a giant fire-fighting bullet the size of a small dog, fired from a howitzer heavy artillery field gun.
“To retard forest fires, fire-retarding material is typically dropped into or in front of the advancing fire from aircraft such as helicopters or airplanes,” the application states. “Such aircraft deliver fire-retarding material at a low rate which often makes them inadequate.”
But the Boeing shell is designed to either detonate in front of a wildfire, spreading retardant materials on the ground to prevent the fire from progressing, or to detonate directly above it, dampening the flames.
Boeing designs and manufactures a wide range of rockets, satellites, and defense and security technology, as well as aircraft.
In 2010, a Russian company designed a firefighting bomb, to be dropped from an aircraft, which would disperse liquid over 1,000 sq meters when detonated, according to Wildfire Today.
Bill Gabbert, the editor-in-chief of Wildfire Today and a veteran wildfire fighter based in southern California, said there were “a number of reasons” why Boeing’s idea was not practicable.
“One, Boeing didn’t estimate the cost of these artillery shells,” he said. “If you’re shooting tens of thousands of them, the costs would be prohibitive.”
The main issue, he said, was that Boeing’s patent appeared to be based on a flawed premise – that releasing fire retardant directly on to a fire would put it out. “But retardant applied from the air does not put out fires,” he said. “In the best of circumstances, it can slow them down so that firefighters on the ground can get close and put them out.”
“Just that last fact invalidates the whole concept in my mind,” he added.
In an article in Wildfire Today, Gabbert called the firefighting shell a “lame-ass idea”, though he allowed that there could be a worthwhile application in the case of nuclear plant fires and emergencies with hazardous materials. “If a howitzer shell fired from miles away is the only way to deal with a nuclear meltdown, then that might be a feasible use for this idea.”
The patent stipulates that the outside surface of the shell would be made of “an environmentally safe material”, and that the projectile could be fired either in a “a concentration barrage, a creeping barrage, rolling barrage, or a block barrage”.
In a statement, Boeing said the company studies “many advanced concepts and evaluates many future designs in order to stay competitive in the marketplace”.
“The awarding of a patent does not necessarily mean that Boeing will be developing that concept or design in the near future.”
The western United States, reeling from the effects of a historic drought, is experiencing an unprecedented season for wildfires, with nearly double the five-year average of acreage affected in California, according to CalFire. In August, 80,000 people had to be evacuated near Los Angeles when the Blue Cut fire threatened their homes.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,430
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,430 |
Sounds like a fun way to fight wildfires.
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
--------------------------------------------------------- ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,790 |
1Minute
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,599
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,599 |
Must work. Thanks to artillery, after about 1915-16, they had no real forest fires in no mans land.
Founder Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison? And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools, Being native burghers of this desert city, Should in their own confines with forked heads Have their round haunches gored."
WS
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,082
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,082 |
I've got to believe that massive drops from aircraft like the L1011 that has been working the fires around here is more cost effective than an artillery barrage. But it'd be fun to watch!
Stupidity is expensive If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,134
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,134 |
Do you have very many forest fires in NE? It sounds very workable to me. the AKRR, Alyeska ski resort, and DOT use artillery to control avalanches. Seems like it'd be less expensive than airplane time.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 11,029
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 11,029 |
In Vietnam we were an air-mobile 105 Howitzer battery. A Chinook helicopter would each carry 1 gun and crew plus ammo load. Fire Direction Center Chinook carried the communications 3/4-ton truck with FDC crew. I can see where this idea could have merit with specially developed fire fighting rounds.
"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon
"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,082
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,082 |
How many shells will it take to cover miles of fireline? That L1011 can lay over a mile of retardant in a single drop. His turn around time is pretty long though. He flies from here to Boise to reload and refuel.
Stupidity is expensive If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 58,978
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 58,978 |
Sounds awesome! Fill a B-52 Stratofortress and carpet bomb!
Paul
"I'd rather see a sermon than hear a sermon".... D.A.D.
Trump Won!, Sandmann Won!, Rittenhouse Won!, Suck it Liberal Fuuktards.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,731
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,731 |
Do you have very many forest fires in NE? It sounds very workable to me. the AKRR, Alyeska ski resort, and DOT use artillery to control avalanches. Seems like it'd be less expensive than airplane time. Actually, we do sometimes. In 2012 we had half a million acres burned, a large portion of it being river valleys.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,134
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,134 |
The only thing I've seen in NE is corn!
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,731
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,731 |
The only thing I've seen in NE is corn! Eastern half is corn. Western half is pasture (except close to rivers like along I-80 and the Platte River). With a few small rivers going through that give us some much needed relief with a whole ton of cedars and cottonwoods.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 16,610
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 16,610 |
Somehow I suspect that the greenies will find an environmental reason to ban these and just let the forest burn to the ground instead.
"Hey jackass, get your government off my freedom." MOLON LABE
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,984
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,984 |
Well if they let it burn it puts tons of carbon in the air so it increases climate change BS. A win win for them.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 16,610
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 16,610 |
I never said the argument would make any sense
"Hey jackass, get your government off my freedom." MOLON LABE
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,682
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,682 |
Mobile and effective for getting into difficult terrain is my guess
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 14,038
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 14,038 |
could have used this just now. straw field caught and it was only half baled. it was a race but got it 80% cleared. hate straw fire.
the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 16,610
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 16,610 |
I would think it would be easier to deploy from an aircraft.
"Hey jackass, get your government off my freedom." MOLON LABE
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,518
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,518 |
The only thing I've seen in NE is corn! One of the reasons the old Lock, Stock, and Barrel store in Valentine NE closed up, was because the owners got burned out in a prairie fire. (Their homes, not the store) That cost them so much money they couldn't keep the store open. Too bad, too, it was a heckuva nice place to visit on PD trips, and to order from. They'd had several fires there in the area that year, and in previous years, too. It was cracklin' dry in JUNE. No trees can do that, along with hot sun and lots of wind.
You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,257
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,257 |
How many shells will it take to cover miles of fireline? That L1011 can lay over a mile of retardant in a single drop. His turn around time is pretty long though. He flies from here to Boise to reload and refuel. I was just getting ready to ask the same question. I also wonder if the explosion does more damage to the landscape than the fire. A fire will pretty much leave the land as it is but an explosion won't.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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