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If the government doesn't require it at some point, it would be nice to see insurance companies encourage it through incentives. I'm sure the government will be all over it however.

And then private pilots will complain about (more) excessive regulation "designed to regulate private plane ownership out of existence, at least for the common man."


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Well it all depends on your panel and space, I know in a Super Cup there is not much room, and redesigning a panel for some of the older aircraft can be a bit on the cost prohibitive side! Its all moot ABS-B is set to be the norm in 2019, they are still working out the bugs and its not going to be the cure all some think will be! Look ever since the Wrights invented airplanes these sort of things have occurred! There was one in NYC a few years back between a PA-32-300 and an AS-350 A-Star helicopter, the helicopter chop off the left wing of the PA-32, it was something to see, somebody got it all on video tape! Mid airs are not very pretty, I know of a guy that walked away from one, he was flying a Huges 500c and was clipped by an airplane, he managed to put it down, wrecked the aircraft but he was pretty much alive, same guy flew the opening secquence of Magnum PI, he end up smacking a ridge in Hawaii, that one killed him! He was a good guy, flew with him for a bit 20 years ago!


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Originally Posted by rost495
5k I'd think everyone should have it no questions asked. 10K, its expensive but whats it worth to have another set of eyes....




$5K is a lot to most pilots. You go pay for it. If you have a G1000 panel it is about $15K to add it.

A lot of smaller older planes are only worth $15-$25K. You are talking 1/3 the value of the aircraft just to come into compliance. I think most are waiting until the last minute in hopes that a cost effective ADS-B system is developed for their airframe and avionics.

They are also a significant wait and balance issue and the ICAs require frequent inspections on some installations. Not a no-brainer by any stretch.


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Let me know when you find a 15-25K super cub.... I"ll be over.


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Well from what I understand ADS-B and how its going to work, it going to replace Radar in Air Traffic Control, or that is the plan! Radar provides Separation for Aircraft on Instrument flight Plans! How much and to what extent its going to help VFR only operations remain to be seen, its still on the pilot to see and avoid! A G-1000 will not fit a Super cup panel, thou a G-600 will, but then you have other issues of were to put the G-530's to run the G-600 and the sandby instruments required! You can get a New Cub Crafters Super Cub so set up, all you have to do is write a check for around 350K! Its a real issue since NexGen is going in to Effect in 2019, uncontrolled Airspace will still be uncontrolled, its when you have to go in to places like Anchorage or Fairbanks that will pose some problems, its not all worked out yet! The whole thing is geared toward the Instrument rated pilot flying on an instrument flight plan, my guess it will work pretty much like radar flight following for the VFR guys, you still have to look for and see the traffic! This along with the EPA messing will avgas, its making flying cost prohibitive for most! Yea the new boxes are something, but they are also a long learning curve too, the G-1000 has over 125 different function keys, and the short cut manual that has to be in the airplane is a good 500 pages long! And those cause other sorts of problems for the pilot too! There is no quick fix to mid air's and why they happen! They don't occurre to often but when they do its news!


"Any idiot can face a crisis,it's the day-to-day living that wears you out."

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Originally Posted by rost495
Let me know when you find a 15-25K super cub.... I"ll be over.


Those must be down your way. I see them at around $70K and up up this way.

This one "only" $68K on Craigslist


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yep, when trying to figure out if I want to fly and or can afford to up there... super cubs kept standing out, for the wife and I. Put a set of floats/skis and tundra tires and I about fell over that most ran 100K....

Like I said, next time you see a 15K super cub, I can have the engine replaced/upgraded etc.... I'll be right over with cash in hand assuming its flyable.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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The ADS-B out mandate is 2020, I am going to start installing them this winter. $2-3K for the boxes, about the same in labor and other parts, cables and antennae.
ADS-B in is cheap and shows traffic and ground and space based radar weather. Shows up blue tooth on an I Pad or tablet, box plugs in to 12 v and costs $1-800.
System should be fully functional with everyone with an electrical system required to be transmitting position and ident data by 2020.
RIP. I have lost too many friends, and witnessed 3 plane crashes.
Keep the greasy side down.

jim


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I don't think it should be mandatory, but as I said, cost of planes, flight time, training, etc... 5000 ish, I'd be a fool not to have it along in my plane.

Its one of those things, if in the scheme of a plane, 5K is too much, you are barely in the game anyway.

But the .gov mandates way to much crap as is...

Mandated for commercial use maybe... but not personal.


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Just fancier, more useful transponders than everyone has already. Airborne Dependent Surveillance. Situational awareness.


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They will be about as popular with most Alaskan pilots as micro chips in handguns that only let the registered owner fire them.


Phil Shoemaker
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Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor
FAA Master pilot
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Originally Posted by rost495


Mandated for commercial use maybe... but not personal.


The problem, if I understand the way they work, is that they don't work with/interact with planes that aren't also equipped. Guessing the statistical risk of midair contacts (per unit of time) is weighted heavily toward operators not normally flying commercial routes.


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Originally Posted by sollybug
Is there not, in this day and age, some cheap transponder that could be required in all planes that could beep when another plan is within 2 miles? I have walkie talkies that work over three miles and cost $20.


Anything aviation related isn't cheap. There are plenty of aircraft that aren't transponder or gps equipped. There are pilots that think jumping in their plane is the same as jumping in their truck.

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Well a transponder allows ATC Radar control the ability to Identify an individual aircraft- Most are altitude encoding, you are assigned a four digit code and the Control can see you and has your pressure altitude read out as well! It only works if you are High enough and with in Radar Coverage! The area in question, no radar coverage, its Class G uncontrolled Airspace- its still see and avoid responsibility is on the Pilot! Nothing would have prevented this, other than the pilots looking were they were going and broadcasting intentions in the area around that strip on 122.8! Accidents happen, and in Alaska because of the remoteness, give it a chance and it will bite you! I got almost 1000 hours in the Van, flown J-3's never got around to a Super Cub! No much panel in a J-3 and no electrical system!


"Any idiot can face a crisis,it's the day-to-day living that wears you out."

Anton Chekhov


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The point of ADS-B is to get coverage and positional information outside of typical radar coverage to augment the old "see and avoid" of VFR with a TCAS like display and alerts of the likelihood of swapping paint.

If you look at the coverage map today (https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/programs/adsb/ICM/) you can see coverage down to 500 feet. It will only get better.

Yes, it only works with 2 aircraft that are both equipped with the equipment but frankly in places like coastal Alaska where weather often squeezes planes off the normal odd/even + 500 rules. I had an opportunity to go to Anchorage to do some of the test flying years ago but it just didn't work out with some other stuff going on at the time.

Airplanes of any sort aren't cheap and maybe my experience bias's me towards having to tools in it to keep me from morting myself. grin






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Stuff that keeps the pilot looking out the window, or looking in the right direction, instead of figuring is worthwhile.
Situational awareness. I have to remind local turboprop guys about non electrical aircraft, see and avoid.


There is no retreat but in submission and slavery!
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