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mudhen Offline OP
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You would think that giraffes, the tallest land animals in the world, would be hard to overlook.

Yet, for centuries scientists may have missed a fundamental fact about these long-necked creatures: They aren’t one species, but rather four distinct ones.

“The genetic differences between giraffes is so large that we have to in fact describe four new species,” said Axel Janke, a geneticist from the Senckenberg Biodiversity and Climate Research Center in Frankfurt. “Some of the differences were as large or larger than the differences between brown bears and polar bears.”

Dr. Janke, along with Julian Fennessy from the Giraffe Conservation Foundation in Namibia and their colleagues, tested the DNA of nearly 200 giraffes from across Africa. They found genetic mutations that were present in certain groups and absent in others. The differences in mutation patterns, they said, were strong enough to classify the groups as distinct species. In some cases subspecies of giraffe were upgraded to being full-blown species. The team published its results Thursday in the journal Current Biology.

Until this point the African mammals were classified on the species level as Giraffa camelopardalis, or simply the giraffe. Now they will belong to one of four species: the southern giraffe, the Masai giraffe, the reticulated giraffe and the northern giraffe.

“Science thought there was one species and now genetics show there are four species,” Dr. Janke said. “All zoos across the world that have giraffes will have to change their labels.”

There are a few visible differences between the species, such as the jagged lines and dark spots on the Masai giraffe and the five hornlike structures on the northern giraffe, but for the most part they look pretty similar. The researchers did not find any examples of hybridization, or cross-mating between the groups in the wild.

The species might have diverged from one another relatively recently, about 1.5 million years ago, according to Dr. Janke. Humans and [bleep], for comparison, parted ways about six or seven million years ago, though some studies place that figure as far back as 13 million years.

Dr. Janke said that he’s not sure why it took so long for researchers to figure out that giraffes don’t all belong to the same species. He said that it may have to do with how little they are studied compared with some of Africa’s other wildlife like lions, elephants and rhinos.

The new finding has important implications for giraffe conservation, Dr. Janke said. Over the past 30 years giraffe numbers have dropped to about 90,000 individuals from about 150,000. Right now there are only about 4,750 northern giraffes and 8,700 reticulated giraffes.

“These 90,000, split up over four species, makes it immediately clear that the giraffes are threatened,” Dr. Janke said. “You see immediately there is urgent need for protection.”


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Ivan Carter was posting some photos of them earlier this week. They found some of them living in absolute wasteland, not a green thing in sight. Astonishing that any large animals could live where they are.


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I think I smell the threatened label on its way.

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I have always thought that the main definition of "species" is that cross breeding led to infertile offspring ( as when horses x donkeys = mules) or no pregnancy at all ( most species crosses) , or that behaviour differences didn't allow a significant amount of cross breeding - like mule deer and whitetails.

So giraffes have been geographically separated over time, and have developed a few genotypes, with four distinct phenotypes. That seems like the definition of subspecies to me.

Many scientists don't think that European Red deer or Asian Maral stags or North American Wapiti ( our Elk) are different species, just different subspecies of Red Deer.

So he's entitled to his opinion, but others with different opinions may be correct too, it just depends on the " school of thought" they belong to.

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mudhen Offline OP
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Originally Posted by castnblast
I have always thought that the main definition of "species" is that cross breeding led to infertile offspring ( as when horses x donkeys = mules) or no pregnancy at all ( most species crosses) , or that behaviour differences didn't allow a significant amount of cross breeding - like mule deer and whitetails.

So giraffes have been geographically separated over time, and have developed a few genotypes, with four distinct phenotypes. That seems like the definition of subspecies to me.

Many scientists don't think that European Red deer or Asian Maral stags or North American Wapiti ( our Elk) are different species, just different subspecies of Red Deer.

So he's entitled to his opinion, but others with different opinions may be correct too, it just depends on the " school of thought" they belong to.

Splitters vs Lumpers
Not too many lumpers and splitters to be found these days. The fact that they detected no evidence of inter-breeding suggests one or more isolating mechanisms at work. Molecular genetics have pretty much become the deciding factor in the definition of species.


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I had a Giraffe roper on my wagon train this summer. He did not rope them as we would a cow but he and his men would dart them and follow them until they showed signs the dart was taking effect. He then would run around the moving Giraffe and wrap the rope around its legs and then they could push it over to attach tracking devices and take blood and hair.
The giraffe does not react to the drug like other animals. They are very resistant to the drug. They won't go down and the drug just slows them down. If enough of the drug is used,to put them down, it kills them.
He worked for a save the Giraffe group. Quite interesting how they were studying the Giraffe. He was not a save the world BS guy but did have a good gig as he called it . Being in Africa ,getting paid and having fun doing the catching.

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Originally Posted by wesheltonj
I think I smell the threatened label on its way.


I think you are right. If you use minor genetic differences to keep splitting species then all animals could be classified as threatened.


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Naturally this opens the door for the "Grand Slam" of giraffes. SCI is likely already on it.


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Science thinks they have all the answers. Until they don't. And yet we're supposed to believe everything they tell us as if it's the gospel.

Pun intended.


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Originally Posted by mudhen


“These 90,000, split up over four species, makes it immediately clear that the giraffes are threatened,” Dr. Janke said. “You see immediately there is urgent need for protection.”


The REAL story here. Anti hunters try anew tactic. Everything is different therefore everything is threatened.


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Sounds like subspecies to me.

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Follow the trail on the money that financed the research and you will find their motives. You could study anything and split the group as to genetic makeup to a point.

Instead of just limiting our separating "races" of people by skin color we could break it down further to Hair color, eye color , general build , freckles or not , and even member size...............

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Originally Posted by wesheltonj
I think I smell the threatened label on its way.




Get your giraffe bone handgun grips before it's too late.

Last edited by Pappy348; 09/23/16.

What fresh Hell is this?

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