Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters JACK LOTT RIFLE - HELP WANTED FINDING INFO - .458 WM

Hello All.

I just purchased a rifle built by J.P. Lott and I'm looking for help to puzzle its History back together.

As the chain of events goes; this rifle was purchased some years ago at the Vegas Gun Show. We'll call this original purchaser the "Old Timer". Apparently the rifle came with dozens of letters and photos testifying that it was in fact built "by" Jack Lott, "for" Howard French. (another G&A editor) Many of the photos depicted Mr. French with his harvested game, holding this rifle.

Some time during the rifle's ownership by the "Old Timer" he befriended a "Young Man", a fellow shooter. This "Young Man" saw the photos and letters first hand and found them most facinating. So, some time years later the "Old Timer" passes away, and the "Young Man" follows up with the "family" to buy this interesting rifle, which he does. However, he discovers that the "family" has unwittingly discarded (thrown away) all the photos and related materials that originally came with the rifle. And, here I am, the "New Owner" of this most interesting Jack Lott built Safari rifle, having just bought if from the "Young Man" and now trying to research and reconstruct the details of this rifle's fragmented History.

There are 3 photos of this rifle in the 1983 edition of Jack Lott's "Big Bore Rifles". The article mentions only the unique scope mounting via modified Sako rings, but no other specific History of building or ownership.

I'm hoping that many of you might have old issues of G&A publications that might show either Howard French, or Jack Lott with this rifle. It has many distinguishing features which make it easy to recognise. This is the original description from the advetisement offering it for sale.

" .... For sale is a .458 Win Mag built on a 1917 Oberndorf Mauser action by noted gunsmith J. P. Lott. This rifle was previously owned at one time by former Guns and Ammo editor Howard French. Unfortunately, the provenance to support this was lost by the estate of the owner before me. There was a pile of correspondence and pictures of dead African animals, taken by Mr. French. The rifle is however documented on page 80 of “Big Bore Rifles” by Jack Lott. There are three pictures of the rifle and the caption describes the custom, return to zero scope mounts. I have a jpeg copy of the pages from this book that show the rifle.


The rifle is built on a 1917 Oberndorf action chambered in standard .458 Win Mag. The action interior is highly polished and the bolt runs very smoothly. Feeding is exceptionally smooth and it will feed empty cases and loaded ammo with no hesitations. The bolt is fitted with a two position M70 style safety and a custom checkered bolt handle which gives excellent purchase, but is not overly rough like some I’ve seen. The floorplate assembly is a non-hinged military style. The front of the floorplate is finely checked to give a good grip when sliding it back for removal. The trigger looks like the original Mauser unit and is serial numbered to match the action, as are the floorplate and bolt stop. The trigger is quite crisp and breaks at 4.5 lbs. The scope mounts, as described in the “Big Bore Rifle” article are customized Sako units on custom bases. Near as I can tell, the dovetails are parallel on both front and back and the width of the normal wider front Sako. Similar to a Talley mount, but with a wider dovetail. It appears he milled the Sako rings to match the bases. The front base is soldered to the barrel and the tops of both bases are stippled to reduce glare if using the iron sights. The barrel mounted sights consist of a three-leaf express type rear sight on a boss that also has a recoil lug inlet to the stock. This boss appears to be a separate piece soldered to the barrel. There is a mid-barrel band for a sling mount. The front sight is a stippled ramp holding a generous blade with what appears to be a square ivory insert. The front sight hood swivels away and is held in place via a spring loaded plunger. Bore is in great condition. I have not shot the rifle so cannot comment on accuracy but it is obvious that it has been used and taken care of. There is some bluing loss on the barrel near the band, most likely from being held there with the rifle over the shoulder while walking. The stock is a nice but not particularly fancy piece of dense walnut with a pleasing reddish hue. The barreled action is closely fit to the stock and appears to be skim bedded from the front sight base back to the mag box. There are no cracks in the wood I can find. The grip cap appears to be sculpted horn and the fore end tip ebony. It is fitted with a red Pachmayr Old English pad that is still in good shape. LOP is 13 7/8”. Weight of the rifle is unknown but probably between 8.5 – 9.0 lbs. .... "

Please help.









more pictures on the next page

continued .....

I'll bet if you give Lon Paul a call he will have more info on that rifle .

I don't know who Lon Paul is but I suggest you contact G&A magazine. Most magazines keep back copies of their magazines.

Very nice looking rifle, BTW.

Not really related but a friend bought a 458 that looked a lot like that one but it only had a scope not iron sights, beautifully done and a great shooter. My friend was paralysedly from the waist down and did his shooting from a wheel chair. The first time he shot it the down range wheels lifted about 6" off the ground and my friend ended up with the only 360 degree scope eye I ever saw. All stitched up and his broken nose healed he went on to take three elk with that rifle.

Sadly he sold it and I was not in position to buy it.

Nice piece. I have that magazine.

Hello 458Win

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I called Lon, and we talked for 2 hours.

Thank you so much for the contact info.

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Hello IndyCA35

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I will be contacting G&A and inquire.

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Hello Scott F

Thanks for the reply

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Hello EdM

Thanks for the reply

If you ever decide to sell your copy, please prop me a note.

Don't think I've ever seen a stock with a relief cut beneath the left side rail. Is it functional?

Always liked that rifle. Jack seemed to like the Sako rings.

I will have a look at some of the other publications, I have that Big Bore Rilfes magazine, the one I bought in 1983 is fairly tattered, so I bought a very nice one a few years ago off Amazon, or similar.

Cheers, Chris

Hello carbon12

thanks for the reply.

I've never seen that also. I think it was for a more pleasing look, or to give wide open access for fast reloading when the gun was empty. (and the scope was removed). Or, to remove some wood for a slim feel in the hand when carying the rifle around. Or, maybe the stock was slated to be "left-hand" at first, and he changed his mind.

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Hello rocdoc,

thanks for the reply.

I think Jack liked those Sako rings because of the "stout" attahment and how he was able to make them "detatchable" and "repeatable" at a time when such rings did not exist commercially.

Yes, please check for other possible references to this rifle.

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Thanks to the forum member that gave me this additional reference. its from the 1986 Gun Digest Hunting Annual. An article by Howard French himself.

And thank you for the pictures of that article. In lew of the lost provenance photos and letters, this serves as definative proof that my rifle belonged to Howard French. Perhaps other members will find additional articles that show my rifle.

Although the pictures are pretty dark with low resolution, all the features match and there is no doubt this is is the same rifle.







Definately the same rifle, topped with the same Weaver scope that French had on it when he owned it.

Very cool old rifle.

Hello BobinNH

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I think so.

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Well, I made it out to the range today.

I took about 15 shots with the rifle to play around and get it sighted-in.

Then I settled down to record the rifle's ability. I let it cool to ambient, and then ... I took 3 careful shots with the scope (then removed it) - and one shot with the irons.

I'm very pleased, and its ready to kill something.

Buckstix-
Here's a photo that shows Jack Lott working on what's probably your rifle. It is a scan from his article, "The Bolt Action Stopper Stock", in Gun Digest, #38, 1984.
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It appears to me that this is your rifle, judging from the front site with the forward-pivoting cover, the mount for the rear sight, front sling attachment, ebony forend tip (not really clear in the scan), etc.

The "slot" to which the caption refers is the cut that some gun builders make in the stock to clear the bolt handle. The article is adamant that the slot may weaken the stock leading to breakage under heavy recoil.

On page 194, what also appears to be your rifle is shown in side view with a selection of other heavy rifles.
--Bob

Hello BullShooter

Thanks for the reply.

I really appreciate the picture. Its my rifle for sure, right down to the detail of the recoil lug at the bottom of the rear sight base.

It could be that the "slot" was cut-in at a later date when he modified the bolt handle it at a later date to clear a scope.

Little by little I hope to re-establish tis rifle's provenance.

Would you be so kind as to also show the photo from page 194.

This photo is also shown on page 83 of that Big Bore Rifle magazine, as well as another inset photo of him at the bench with it.

Hello FC363

Thanks for the reply.

If you know of any other references to this rifle, please let me know.

Some might be interested to know that the issue of "Guns & Ammo Big Bore Rifles" in question done by Jack (Jacques) Lott has become a collectors item. The last time I saw it mentioned on Amazon.com, a copy was offered for over $300. It is likely much higher today since that was years ago. As I recall, it was originally $2.95.

It is a good read and informative. I personally have two copies. One is heavily marked up by me in researching for an African hunting trip. The other has been kept untouched and I may give it to my son.

Hello Anjin

Thanks for the reply.

If your son doesn't want it, I'll take it!

You are correct. I just bought a copy on Amazon for $150. The next one offered was listed at over $400.

Well,

The rifle's History is slowly being puzzled together. Today I found a couple more references to this rifle's build in the 1984 Gun Digest.

First pic shows Jack Lott shooting a 458 model 70, and right above that picture is a picture of my rifle that shows it before the scope blocks were added.

Seond pic shows my rifle's barrel unfinished, "in the white", during construction.

Do you know if the other copy sold?

Nice rifle and good find. Get all the documentation you can and keep it safe.

Hello carbon12

Thansk for the reply.

I don't think so - you can look it up on Amazon.com

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Hello bigwhoop

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I'll keep trying. I'm hoping more forum members will find articles that were published about this rifle by Jack Lott, or Harold French, and contact me.

I have a couple of issues I have kept also and the piece Jack wrote on his tussle and being tossed by the buffalo is quite interesting. He admits that it was completley caused by his gut shooting the buff and was in no way the fault of the 458. He even goes on to say how great the 458 performed and how in the hands of Wally Johnson it saved his life .
all of this has been completely ignored by a few writers either have never read it , or who chose to make up stories about how Jack's bashing was the fault of the poor ballistics of the 458.

Buckstix-
The photo below is the one you requested, but I'm a bit late because you posted a part of it above. You're also better at avoiding edge effects with a scanner.
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The caption states yours is a "three-slot 458 Mauser". I'll admit unfamiliarity with the 3-slot term. If it's not a typo, would you clarify?

Page 193 shows a stock inletted and with with glass bedding for a "big-bore Mauser". There appears to be a serial number in the glass bedding of the recoil lug. Does that match your rifle?

--Bob

Hello 458Win

thanks for the reply.

I've also heard and read that the bashing was the fault of the under-powered 458 WM and that's the reason why Lott made the larger "458 Lott" wildcat cartridge. Later I found out that story was all BS. - just another urban legend.

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Hello BullShooter

Thanks for the reply.

Thanks for the picture, but I found a copy of that Gun Digest on the bookshelf at my gun club. I took pictures of the pages with a camera.

I'm not familiar with the term "3-slot" either, I think perhaps it was a typo and should have said "3-shot" as my rifle holds 3 in the mag box. ? ? ? - just a guess.

No, the stock shown on page 193 is not mine. My gun's serial number is 4-digits, and not stamped on the bottom of the action in that location.

Evidently somebody spent $400 on the last one on Amazon.

Hello FC363

Thanks for the reply.

Last week Amazon had 4 copies listed - $150 - $400 - $795 - $3995

Now all are gone.

$3995?

I hope the hell I kept my copy! Think I need to find it!

$3995.00 that must have been a signed copy by Jack Lott.

Hello tex n cal,

Thanks for your reply.

Good idea, and put a price tag on it so your heirs don't sell it at a garage sale for a $1 when your gone.

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Hello elkhunterm,

Thanks for the reply.

For $3995, it should have been "signed" by Lott, dedicated to the buyer, and included a "self-e" of him signing.

458: Can you explain why Lott in the Guns and Ammo article "He (Lott) admits that it was completley caused by his gut shooting the buff and was in no way the fault of the 458" yet in ".458 Winchester Magnum The Truth, the Whole Truth!" Hunting Horizons Premier Issue 1992 page 50 Lott clearly attributes the lack of velocity and therefor inadequate penetration to the .458's hyper-compression problems due to "inadequate (for nitrocellulose) volumetric capacity"?
Regarding "how in the hands of Wally Johnson it saved his life" do you think that the buffalo that used Lott as "the quoit in a game of buffalo toss" (Craig Boddington page 552 Any Shot You Want) succumbed because of shots 3,4,5,6,7,8,9 from Johnson's .375 H&H or shots 10 and 11 from the .458 after it moved off from the stream bed?

Hello bobmn,

Thanks for your reply.

I think that account explains it well.

Have you found any other published articles that show this rifle?

Buck: Sorry, no.

Hello bobmn,

Thanks for the reply.

If you ever run across any articles or dditional references to this rifle, or Howard French using it in the field, please contact me.

In the meantime, I've contacted the Fennville Rod And Gun Club in Michigan, where the rifle's original purchaser was a member, but now deceased, and offered a Reward / Finder's Fee for the photos and documents I'm seeking. I'm thinking that perhaps some of these items may have been purchased by his fellow club members upon his death.

Dave Scovill, who edited the Lott piece Wolfe Pub ran by Jack Lott that bashed the standard 458 had never seen Jack's original piece he had written soon after his buffalo episode. I copied the entire G&A Big Bore magazine and sent it to him and he was completely suprised by Jack's 180% turnarond.
My only conclusion is that Jack wanted to boost the fame of the cartridge with his name on it and, like so many gun writers, bashing a particular object appears to be one way to show their "expertise"

This has been very interesting and enlightening. Thanks to all who have contributed.

I am sure someone on here could copy features from the first G&A Big Bore magazine and post it for all to see as the original magazines seem to be priced out of sight currently.

If someone wants a copy and is willing to part with
3995.00 USD, this one, unsigned, is available.

Hello 458Win,

Thanks for the reply.

So far I've found references to my rifle in;

1983 Big Bore rifles

1984 Guns Digest

1886 Gun Digest Hunting Annual

Do you know of any other publications that reference this rifle with text or pictures? By either by Jack Lott or Howard French?

Well, I just acquired another Jack Lott built rifle.

See my new post - "Jack Lott Rifle - another 458WM built by Jack Lott"

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/11659878#Post11659878

There was one of these in a box of old "Rifle" and "Handloader" magazines a buddy of mine gave me. Dang, I sure hope I didn't send it down the road with them!!!!

I have a copy I would be willing to sell to a good home.
Please pm me if you are interested.
whelennut

pm sent