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Need a .454 medium weight bullet for your casting inventory?
+ there is a 15 percent discount if you get in on the group buy.

http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,1626.0.html

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I just bought a 45 Lc mtn gun. I'd like to run a bullet like this as my main one. I was thinking maybe a 260g wide flat but 280 is close enough. I have a lot to learn about casting and currently just own a few Lee molds.

Which one of these would be the one to get? Brass or aluminum and how many cavities? I don't want gas checks just lead. I'm not going to run them too fast. Maybe 1100 fps max. Do the 5 cavity molds work well? Would I be better off going 3 or 4 for keeping temps right for good casting? Is it more difficult to cast the hollow points?

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I'd roll with a 4 cavity aluminum.

Those brass molds, most especially with more cavities do get heavy.

I've never cast a hollowpoint, so I can't help you there.


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Burleyboy, I got a brass HP mold from NOE for Christmas year before last. Its a 2 cavity 360-180-WFN. What Scott says about getting heavy is spot on. Brass, plus the hollow point hardware, even in a 2 cavity, gets tiresome on a long casting stretch.

While the HP system NOE uses is pretty neat and quick, for me it still adds a little time to the process.

Unless you are just stuck on HPs, I'd pass. Scott's suggestion of a 4 cav aluminum is the Goldilocks solution.

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A have a few 4 cavity MP brass hp molds. They are heavy mofo's, but they cast beautiful bullets and don't take any more time to cast than a fp mold. I've never cast an NOE hollowpoint mold but assume it would cast as quickly as the MP cramer style mold.

If you're an inexperienced caster, I would stay away from hp molds until you have really got conventional mold casting down pat. HP's are very critical for mold temp and cadence and they can drive you nuts until you figure out how the mold needs to be run. You can literally cast 100's and you'll be scrapping most of them for incomplete fillout. I also find that when you run the flatpoint pins they are difficult to cast as the bullets end up getting hung up and don't drop free. So the theory of having a mold that drops both hp's and fp's is great, in practice I find I only cast hp's from my hp molds and have dedicated fp molds when I want a fp.

For what you're looking for, I'd suggest a 6 cavity Lee 45 300 rf mold and have a machinist mill the top of the mold down to get rid of the gas check shank of the mold. The shortened bullet will be a 280 gr plainbase bullet.

As far as 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 cavity molds, I also prefer getting as many cavities as possible as I like to produce bullets with as little time and effort as possible.

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Originally Posted by 458 Lott
If you're an inexperienced caster, I would stay away from hp molds until you have really got conventional mold casting down pat. HP's are very critical for mold temp and cadence and they can drive you nuts until you figure out how the mold needs to be run. You can literally cast 100's and you'll be scrapping most of them for incomplete fillout. I also find that when you run the flatpoint pins they are difficult to cast as the bullets end up getting hung up and don't drop free. So the theory of having a mold that drops both hp's and fp's is great, in practice I find I only cast hp's from my hp molds and have dedicated fp molds when I want a fp.


Spot on. And a lot of where my comment of "adding time to the process" for me came from. Too cold--improper fill out, too hot--I get chunks of the HP cavity torn off because the lead hasn't frozen enough to support its self when falling from the pin. Takes a bit more practice to get the cadence right.

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Originally Posted by Burleyboy

Which one of these would be the one to get? Brass or aluminum and how many cavities? I don't want gas checks just lead. I'm not going to run them too fast. Maybe 1100 fps max. Do the 5 cavity molds work well? Would I be better off going 3 or 4 for keeping temps right for good casting? Is it more difficult to cast the hollow points?

Thanks,
Bb


In my experience, NOE's 5 cavity molds are a little too long to use with Lee bottom pour pots. The 4 cavity molds fit great. I like the sprue plate sticking out the far end of the mold though for easy access, YMMV.

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Originally Posted by War_Eagle
Originally Posted by 458 Lott
If you're an inexperienced caster, I would stay away from hp molds until you have really got conventional mold casting down pat. HP's are very critical for mold temp and cadence and they can drive you nuts until you figure out how the mold needs to be run. You can literally cast 100's and you'll be scrapping most of them for incomplete fillout. I also find that when you run the flatpoint pins they are difficult to cast as the bullets end up getting hung up and don't drop free. So the theory of having a mold that drops both hp's and fp's is great, in practice I find I only cast hp's from my hp molds and have dedicated fp molds when I want a fp.


Spot on. And a lot of where my comment of "adding time to the process" for me came from. Too cold--improper fill out, too hot--I get chunks of the HP cavity torn off because the lead hasn't frozen enough to support its self when falling from the pin. Takes a bit more practice to get the cadence right.


I ended up selling my 400 gr .476" hp mold because I simply couldn't get good bullets out of it. When I had it hot enough to get complete fill out a chunk of the nose would break off when I dropped the bullets and when I allowed additional time for the bullets to cool the mold got too cold and I got wrinkles in the nose.

Honestly I think for over 95% of the use of cast handgun bullets the hp is a fad and a fashion statement. Yeay they look cool and when you have a mold that will drop them out as fast as conventional mold that's pretty cool. But more often than not the hp just doesn't matter for most uses.

With a 45, just go with a WFN of reasonable weight and at a reasonable velocity and drill a hole clear through. The wound channel will be a couple inches in dia.

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Originally Posted by 458 Lott
Honestly I think for over 95% of the use of cast handgun bullets the hp is a fad and a fashion statement. Yeah they look cool and when you have a mold that will drop them out as fast as conventional mold that's pretty cool. But more often than not the hp just doesn't matter for most uses.

With a 45, just go with a WFN of reasonable weight and at a reasonable velocity and drill a hole clear through. The wound channel will be a couple inches in dia.


Completely agree. Having HP cast bullets was a cool thought but after fooling with this one, I have submitted to the fact that 99% of my cast bullet shooting is practice / paper / steel shooting. Just don't need a HP for any of that...especially not to justify the added aggravation during casting. That 1% (if that) of shooting at game / varmints / etc that requires a hollow point....I'll just pony up the money for jacketed. smile

I would rather my bullets fall from the molds like rain and have grown fond of running a pair of 3 or 4 cavity aluminum molds or a pair of 2 cavity iron molds. Production is awesome and no fiddling with pin issues.

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If you want a HP cast bullet, a softwood jig, clamp, and a drill press works great..

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Originally Posted by Steelhead
I'd roll with a 4 cavity aluminum.

Those brass molds, most especially with more cavities do get heavy.

I've never cast a hollowpoint, so I can't help you there.


I have used both aluminium and brass and while the brass is a lot heavier I would still go with it as a first choice. The HP casting is really no different than non HP.


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I found the brass mold works great even with HP pins when heated on a hot plate while you lead pot melts. Never had a problem getting them to fill out or dropping out clean off the HP pins.


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Originally Posted by 458 Lott


I ended up selling my 400 gr .476" hp mold because I simply couldn't get good bullets out of it. When I had it hot enough to get complete fill out a chunk of the nose would break off when I dropped the bullets and when I allowed additional time for the bullets to cool the mold got too cold and I got wrinkles in the nose.



I think it's common for people to have experiences like yours and conclude that hollow points are hard to cast, but really it's all a matter of hollow point design.

Unfortunately most of the commercial hollowpoint mold makers (including Mihec and NOE) either don't understand hollow point design well and how to make them cast easy, or are just going along with group buy requests. Personally I haven't seen one yet that had the hollow point designed right, except the Mihec 401-200 WFN, which I had a hand in hollow point design on that one. I've ended up reshaping the pins on all my other commercial hollow point molds.

Almost everything I cast for pistols these days has hollow points; when the pins are designed with enough taper to release easily and give good performance, they cast as easily as any other mold. They can certainly improve terminal performance as well; I feel it's a bit narrow minded to say they are just a fad.

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I like the Lee idea of having the gas check end milled off. I have the Lee 44 305g that I've been wanting to have the gas check end milked off of too. I just need to find a guy to do it and send him both. I've long thought the Lee 305 milled down to about 270g no check would be perfect for 90% of what I do with my 44 mags. I like the wide flat nose of the Lee but don't need a check or 300 plus grains. I think a 270g at about 1100 fps would suit me well. Something similar in the 45 would be good for me too.

Yondering, I really like the sound of your 401 200g mold. I'd love that bullet for my glock 20. I have a Kkm 40 barrel in it and I long load them to 1.25" and run the speed up. It works well with 200g bullets and a little factory crimp. I just buy once fired 40 brass cheep and load them once and let them fly. No picking up expensive 10mm brass.

I've got 6 5 gallon buckets of wheel weights in the garage and 1300 pounds of Linotype. Time to get casting again. I also want to learn about this powder coating you all are doing. I've never liked traditional lube but powder coating looks like it allows me to do a bunch and store them long term without having a big gooey or dried out mess later.

I've I buy one of these molds I'll go 4 cavity flat point like Scott suggested. I use a Lee bottom pour and don't want something too heavy or finicky.

Thanks,
Bb

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I have about 1/2 dozen MP molds, most of them cast like a dream but that particular mold was a bugger. The issue wasn't the bullets not dropping from the pins due to taper, the issue was the criticality of the temperature. I tried adding tin to help fill out, different temps, different cadence and just couldn't get the balance between hot enough to fill out and sufficient cool day to keep the noses from breaking off.

Hp molds are neat, and in many cases they can cast as nicely as a conventional flat point mold. But to suggest them to an inexperienced caster or to say they are the best for all applications is IMHO getting a bit carried away with what I consider more of a novelty or fad than a necessity.

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Originally Posted by Burleyboy
I like the Lee idea of having the gas check end milled off. I have the Lee 44 305g that I've been wanting to have the gas check end milked off of too. I just need to find a guy to do it and send him both. I've long thought the Lee 305 milled down to about 270g no check would be perfect for 90% of what I do with my 44 mags. I like the wide flat nose of the Lee but don't need a check or 300 plus grains. I think a 270g at about 1100 fps would suit me well. Something similar in the 45 would be good for me too.

Thanks,
Bb


I don't know if they still offer the service, or how he managed it, but a shooting buddy ordered a 45 300 rf with the base milled off from Lee, though it was a two cavity.

I can't imagine you don't have a machine shop or someone with a mill local to you. With the six cavity mold it's as simple as removing the sprue plate and sprue plate stop from the mold, having the machinist clamp it in a vise and run a fly cutter over the face of it to take off ~0.060".

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Originally Posted by Burleyboy
I like the Lee idea of having the gas check end milled off. I have the Lee 44 305g that I've been wanting to have the gas check end milked off of too. I just need to find a guy to do it and send him both. I've long thought the Lee 305 milled down to about 270g no check would be perfect for 90% of what I do with my 44 mags. I like the wide flat nose of the Lee but don't need a check or 300 plus grains. I think a 270g at about 1100 fps would suit me well. Something similar in the 45 would be good for me too.

Yondering, I really like the sound of your 401 200g mold. I'd love that bullet for my glock 20. I have a Kkm 40 barrel in it and I long load them to 1.25" and run the speed up. It works well with 200g bullets and a little factory crimp. I just buy once fired 40 brass cheep and load them once and let them fly. No picking up expensive 10mm brass.

I've got 6 5 gallon buckets of wheel weights in the garage and 1300 pounds of Linotype. Time to get casting again. I also want to learn about this powder coating you all are doing. I've never liked traditional lube but powder coating looks like it allows me to do a bunch and store them long term without having a big gooey or dried out mess later.

I've I buy one of these molds I'll go 4 cavity flat point like Scott suggested. I use a Lee bottom pour and don't want something too heavy or finicky.

Thanks,
Bb


I can mill your molds down, if you're looking for a guy and don't mind shipping them.

That 401-200 bullet isn't my design, I just had some input on the hollow point design, which originally was going to be more of a deep cup shape like so many others. This was Oreo's group buy on castboolits a few years ago, he is responsible for the bullet design, and it's a pretty good one. We ended up with three sets of pins for WFN, shallow hp, and deep hp; both hp shapes are straight cones. The deep one works great for 40 S&W and short-barrel 10mm, and the shallow cone is great for high velocity 10mm.

Here is a picture of that bullet fired into newsprint from my 6.6" G20 longslide (center two bullets @1325 fps) and a stock G20 barrel (left side, 1250 fps). This was the shallow cone configuration.

[Linked Image]

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