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Edward? Is that you, Snowden? Or are you just a Russian........hacker? shocked


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I used Hawk bullets (225gr) in my 350 Magnum. I thought they'd be the perfect bullet. I didn't have an issue with pressure, just accuracy.


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Read Dr. Brownells research and you might find your answer! Different thicknesses and hardness of the bullets jacket has been proven to raise chamber pressures, to dangerous levels when using the same weight bullet! I'm not an expert by any strech of the imagination but his findings, explained my problem with flattened primers on same weight bullets, same powder charge and same primer.

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I have loaded Hornady, Sierra, Nosler, Speer, Winchester, Remington, Barnes.... with no pressure problem hot or mild in any rifles I own. Disregarding Brownell. Sorry, I speak from experience.

Sorry heym06 but you are missing some other varibles other than jacket consistency.


I guarantee that the OP didn't heed to 10% below start loads, and that's the reason for the blow ups.

Last edited by anothergun; 09/17/16.
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Originally Posted by anothergun
I guarantee that the OP didn't heed to 10% below start loads, and that's the reason for the blow ups.


And I guarantee that the OP hasn't visited this site in 14 years.

So who are you talking to?



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I'm talking to ones who made an attempt to give him advice and failed to fix his problem.

Its amazing to me, a lot times, that forums like this.. give bogus info only either not resolve a problem with opinions or... completely discredit someone or something.


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Originally Posted by anothergun
I have loaded Hornady, Sierra, Nosler, Speer, Winchester, Remington, Barnes.... with no pressure problem hot or mild in any rifles I own. Disregarding Brownell. Sorry, I speak from experience.

Sorry heym06 but you are missing some other varibles other than jacket consistency.


I guarantee that the OP didn't heed to 10% below start loads, and that's the reason for the blow ups.
. Yes I know there are other variables, I was just trying to educate a little on something over looked by many. I'm not sure anyone has fixed his problem, are you? Hell for all we know he's using the wrong powder, or volume, scale not calibrated. What's your input other than to tell us you have used many bullets, as most here including myself have with no problems, and assuming he didn't work up the load! I don't disregard Dr. Brownell he did more in-depth studies than most, and I suggested reading all of them! I speak from experience also over fifty years reloading, plus two years gunsmithing school, and metallurgy!

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There are people in this thread from the original posting that aren't even alive anymore.

Necro threads never end well.


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Originally Posted by teal
There are people in this thread from the original posting that aren't even alive anymore.

Necro threads never end well.


Too true, and the Seahawks lost.


"The 375HH is the greatest level of power you can get for the investment in recoil." (JJHack)
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Heym06......

All high power rifles made from 1898 and on can handle ALOT more than you think. Read a PO Ackley report on the strongest actions that he grossly overloaded.

Read and follow directions, basically be mature enough to do this...or just the common sense, better yet.

This OP failed to follow Hawks bullet instructions... and blames the bullet maker, how convenient. Considering,.. they did the pressure testing..

I'm not sure anyone has fixed his problem, are you???

Umm.. have you left your computer knowing your input helped and feel better?

You said.....Different thicknesses and hardness of the bullets jacket has been proven to raise chamber pressures, to dangerous levels when using the same weight bullet!

ALL the bullets I listed that I loaded throughout the years haven't raised pressure other than a bolt being a little stiff to open... so your comment... "it doesn't help the OP at all",my input...... does it??? Maybe not, if he hasn't visted lately, or passed away, or whatever the case may be.



Like I said handloading is easy, anyone can do it.

The only excess pressure, I had to deal with was an honest mistake of jamming a bullet up against the rifling to open primer pockets, and another was having to cut the base of a die and causing excess headspace and smacking my cheek from the excess recoil. The die wasn't made to maximum headspace per manufacture. So after altering the die I just sized accordingly and the problem was solved.

Other than those 2 problems I had ZERO problems reloading considering the testing for pressure was already done by professionals. Oh BTW it didn't take 50 years, 2 years of gunsmithing school and studying metal to know that other than trusting the folks who do the testing.





Last edited by anothergun; 09/18/16.
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Originally Posted by Ken Howell
Don't blame it on the bullets.
<br>
<br>Your loads were already dangerously close to the edge. When you changed one variable (those bullets), the slight difference -- which wouldn't be a great problem if your loads were safely moderate -- was enough to hoist pressures the small amount necessary to expedite the destruction of your rifle.
<br>
<br>I'd need all the details of your load, to be more certain and specific, and I'd really love to run one of your loads through an instrumented test barrel -- but given what you've told me, I'm confident that your loads were already hot enough to have you skirting close to the brink of a blow-up.


"skirting close??"
WHAT? No max load or even over PUBLISHED max loads would cause a blow up. And I have Lee data that is over Hornady, or Sierra data max loads... ALL data is within SAMMI specifications.

Should this statement cause some concern?? From Hawk bullets.....

"They seal the bore and engage the rifling more completely, improving accuracy and eliminating gas blow-by....

So what does this tell us class?? if there's less blow by where's the pressure going?

Really? Come on.
OP states........

"the cases I used and measured and weighed every single Hawk bullet. All were .358 in diameter and weighed exactly 275 grains."

I'm CONFIDENT he loaded correctly if this was under normal circumstances. But you're confident he was skirting close to the brink of a blow up???

And this is the most humorous statement here...

"was enough to hoist pressures the small amount necessary to expedite the destruction of your rifle."


Ummmmm.... moderating the pressure signs, which again I'm sure he has done in the past..

On another note.. "loads were being dangerously close to the edge"???

would show indications waaaaaay BEFORE a rifle barrel/action being blown up... um, like, case failure.




Last edited by anothergun; 09/18/16.
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Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by Ken Howell
Don't blame it on the bullets.
<br>
<br>Your loads were already dangerously close to the edge. When you changed one variable (those bullets), the slight difference -- which wouldn't be a great problem if your loads were safely moderate -- was enough to hoist pressures the small amount necessary to expedite the destruction of your rifle.
<br>
<br>I'd need all the details of your load, to be more certain and specific, and I'd really love to run one of your loads through an instrumented test barrel -- but given what you've told me, I'm confident that your loads were already hot enough to have you skirting close to the brink of a blow-up.


WHAT?????

Really?????
OP states........

"the cases I used and measured and weighed every single Hawk bullet. All were .358 in diameter and weighed exactly 275 grains."

I'm CONFIDENT he loaded correctly if this was under normal circumstances. But you're confident he was skirting close to the brink of a blow up???

And this is the most humorous statement here...

"was enough to hoist pressures the small amount necessary to expedite the destruction of your rifle."

BAHAHAHAHAHA.... !!!!!

Ummmmm.... moderating the pressure signs, which again I'm sure he has done in the past..

On another note.. "loads were being dangerously close to the edge"???

would show indications waaaaaay BEFORE a rifle barrel/action being blown up... um, like, case failure.






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Originally Posted by anothergun
Heym06......

All high power rifles made from 1898 and on can handle ALOT more than you think. Read a PO Ackley report on the strongest actions that he grossly overloaded.

Read and follow directions, basically be mature enough to do this...or just the common sense, better yet.

This OP failed to follow Hawks bullet instructions... and blames the bullet maker, how convenient. Considering,.. they did the pressure testing..

I'm not sure anyone has fixed his problem, are you???

Umm.. have you left your computer knowing your input helped and feel better?

You said.....Different thicknesses and hardness of the bullets jacket has been proven to raise chamber pressures, to dangerous levels when using the same weight bullet!

ALL the bullets I listed that I loaded throughout the years haven't raised pressure other than a bolt being a little stiff to open... so your comment... "it doesn't help the OP at all",my input...... does it??? Maybe not, if he hasn't visted lately, or passed away, or whatever the case may be.



Like I said handloading is easy, anyone can do it.

The only excess pressure, I had to deal with was an honest mistake of jamming a bullet up against the rifling to open primer pockets, and another was having to cut the base of a die and causing excess headspace and smacking my cheek from the excess recoil. The die wasn't made to maximum headspace per manufacture. So after altering the die I just sized accordingly and the problem was solved.

Other than those 2 problems I had ZERO problems reloading considering the testing for pressure was already done by professionals. Oh BTW it didn't take 50 years, 2 years of gunsmithing school and studying metal to know that other than trusting the folks who do the testing.



. Well I'm glad you've only had hard bolt lift and opened primer pockets. As far as metal used in gun actions don't lecture my on action strength. Reloading you do it your way I'll do it the right way! Replies not necessary I've seen enough of you ignorance in the other posts! Have a great day

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Any experienced hand loader who does not understand that a change in bullets of the same weight (when you are skirting max loads) can result in pressures going out of site is either stupid, or not very experienced.

One or the other.




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well let me ask you this Bob....since you are such an expert on the subject.

when you use the word "can".... can it result in pressures going out of site? So you don't believe that a case failure would happen long before a barrel/receiver would fail?

PO Ackley tested a few magnum barreled actions, type 38, type 99, 98 mauser, 03 sprinfeild with barrels bulging, some split, but none of the actions gave way. I wonder why? Because they are designed beyond any excess pressure from outside sources whether they be human or not.

The only thing that the OP said happened to his rifle was

"It swelled the barrel and ruined the bolt"

Changing bullet manufactures with max loads would not even come close to doing the above. The casing would fail first. People like you are convinced by manufactures who are persuaded by their legal council to preach the dangers of what you say... IF you understood why SAMMI came into being, then you wouldn't be so concerned of what's in print of so called warnings, but in all actuality is a safe guard for a law suit. BUT....IF it's in print, it's insurance to the manufactures.


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Originally Posted by Heym06
Originally Posted by anothergun
Heym06......

All high power rifles made from 1898 and on can handle ALOT more than you think. Read a PO Ackley report on the strongest actions that he grossly overloaded.

Read and follow directions, basically be mature enough to do this...or just the common sense, better yet.

This OP failed to follow Hawks bullet instructions... and blames the bullet maker, how convenient. Considering,.. they did the pressure testing..

I'm not sure anyone has fixed his problem, are you???

Umm.. have you left your computer knowing your input helped and feel better?

You said.....Different thicknesses and hardness of the bullets jacket has been proven to raise chamber pressures, to dangerous levels when using the same weight bullet!

ALL the bullets I listed that I loaded throughout the years haven't raised pressure other than a bolt being a little stiff to open... so your comment... "it doesn't help the OP at all",my input...... does it??? Maybe not, if he hasn't visted lately, or passed away, or whatever the case may be.



Like I said handloading is easy, anyone can do it.

The only excess pressure, I had to deal with was an honest mistake of jamming a bullet up against the rifling to open primer pockets, and another was having to cut the base of a die and causing excess headspace and smacking my cheek from the excess recoil. The die wasn't made to maximum headspace per manufacture. So after altering the die I just sized accordingly and the problem was solved.

Other than those 2 problems I had ZERO problems reloading considering the testing for pressure was already done by professionals. Oh BTW it didn't take 50 years, 2 years of gunsmithing school and studying metal to know that other than trusting the folks who do the testing.



. Well I'm glad you've only had hard bolt lift and opened primer pockets. As far as metal used in gun actions don't lecture my on action strength. Reloading you do it your way I'll do it the right way! Replies not necessary I've seen enough of you ignorance in the other posts! Have a great day



I do do it the right way, start to max. And I never had any pressure issues/signs just because I changed bullet makes... sorry.

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Back when the fire was a different place, we used to have a gunsmith that posted here a bit. Was in the magazines, made very accurate rifles.

He also had pressure testing equipment to go along with a 100 yard range (underground IIRC - made from shipping containers). With that equipment he did a bit of an experiment with a 300 WM. Over loaded it till it let go.

Eventually he blew the last 5-7 inches of the barrel off. Way over max and verified with test equipment.

Not a single "generally accepted" sign of over pressure that most reloaders look for. Brass issues, case failure, extraction issues etc. NONE of those happened before that barrel let loose and the pressure test equipment proved this wasn't a bad barrel but well over max loads PSI/CUP wise.

Moral of the story was that generally accepted signs of over pressure were NOT reliable and it was definitely possible to be well over max without notice.


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Quote
Brass issues, case failure, extraction issues etc. NONE of those happened before that barrel let loose


I don't believe this one bit.

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