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You guys crack me up I have two buds in Ak that hunt with tikkas 300 Wsm one has killed 3-4 brown bears, 5-6 black bears, couple mose and caribou.. The other bud has killed At least 5 rams with his tikka (i.e. Dall sheep) last I talked to him he has 19 sheep to his credit, several black bears, some brown bears, moose and caribou.. I load for both of thier rifle one likes the old 190gr hornady btsp and the other likes 168gr Barnes Ttsx. Nothing wrong with tikkas.. And nothing wrong with the classic model 70's... Oh and those two boys wouldn't know what a pre64 was just couple Alaskan boys killing [bleep] not posting pictures of high end guns sitting in gun safes..


Last edited by 79S; 09/19/16.

Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Originally Posted by 79S
You guys crack me up I have two buds in Ak that hunt with tikkas 300 Wsm one has killed 3-4 brown bears, 5-6 black bears, couple mose and caribou.. The other bud has killed At least 5 rams with his tikka (i.e. Dall sheep) last I talked to him he has 19 sheep to his credit, several black bears, some brown bears, moose and caribou.. I load for both of thier rifle one likes the old 190gr hornady btsp and the other likes 168gr Barnes Ttsx. Nothing wrong with tikkas.. And nothing wrong with the classic model 70's... Oh and those two boys wouldn't know what a pre64 was just couple Alaskan boys killing [bleep] not posting pictures of high end guns sitting in gun safes..



Since Im the only one who posted any pictures I assume the safe queens are mine, right? smile

I was trying to show the OP some factory and custom rifles. But of course there's always an [bleep] like you hanging around isn't there?

The safe queens are newly acquired; i was not always 66 years old, so yes a lot of my rifles are newer and most of my hunting is behind me and not in front. Most of my rifles that I used when I was hunting more actively are long gone.

I have owned and shot more Classics than you've ever owned and sold them all because they are a pathetic POS. smirk

But you like them which is typical for people who don;t know their ass from their elbow.

I am not impressed by your buddies track record on glamour game, which are mostly stupid, naive, and easy to kill if you get into the country so pitch the hero stuff to people who have never BTDT.

Any dope can kill Alaskan BG. Lets face it....those animals aren't that smart. If you live i Alaska and hunt a lifetime without that sort of track record, you are considered sort of a stiff....right?

Spare me the rural hero horeshidt. You know why Alaskan game is so well regulated? Because the animals are so stupid and easy to kill you clowns would wipe them out in a decade LOL.

If the Tikkers are so great sell all these POS Classics you own and buy some rifles LMAO.

But do tell me more. I enjoy your posts once I figure out WTF you are saying.



What a dip [bleep]... smirk

Last edited by BobinNH; 09/19/16.



The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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For the record - I never compared a p-64 to a Tikka either.

Simply stated - that the YOUNGEST p-64 a person could possibly own right now is 52 years old (give or take some months I suppose).

ANYTHING in this sport/lifestyle that is 52 years old + lasted because it was made well to begin with. Those that weren't didn't live to see their 52nd birthday.

That's my point. Law of averages tells me that some p-64's are no longer with us because they were discarded along the way - a bad one got out or was butchered by some kitchen gunsmith. If I want to buy a p-64 Winchester today - my odds of getting a real nice one are much better than maybe buying one in 1966 when the market hadn't corrected any issues with the ones fresh from the factory just yet, as few as some would like there to think there would be....


And the odds of getting a good one today/tomorrow is only going to go up as they age.

Sorta like in 2036 - if you buy a Ruger tang M77 - original, odds are it's going to have a good barrel on it, not one of the crap ones that got out as those will have been weeded out of the market by then.

(damn - my first rifle was a tang M77 in 30-06 and I didn't realize they went to the MKII in 1984 - forever and just yesterday ago...)




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Dakota M 76 7mm Dakota,it has shot every bullet I chose into itty-bitty groups and that includes 160 gr NP,150 gr NP,140 gr NBT and the only one it shot bad was the Winchester 150 gr Power Point.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Settled on the 140 gr NBT going at 3340 fps average.


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Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard

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Originally Posted by BobinNH

Seeing pre 64's go through that kind of abuse, no wonder i don't really trust much else. Problem is they are getting old and scarce.

Bob,

That could apply to a bunch of us... shocked

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Originally Posted by BobinNH
Originally Posted by 79S
You guys crack me up I have two buds in Ak that hunt with tikkas 300 Wsm one has killed 3-4 brown bears, 5-6 black bears, couple mose and caribou.. The other bud has killed At least 5 rams with his tikka (i.e. Dall sheep) last I talked to him he has 19 sheep to his credit, several black bears, some brown bears, moose and caribou.. I load for both of thier rifle one likes the old 190gr hornady btsp and the other likes 168gr Barnes Ttsx. Nothing wrong with tikkas.. And nothing wrong with the classic model 70's... Oh and those two boys wouldn't know what a pre64 was just couple Alaskan boys killing [bleep] not posting pictures of high end guns sitting in gun safes..



Since Im the only one who posted any pictures I assume the safe queens are mine, right? smile

I was trying to show the OP some factory and custom rifles. But of course there's always an [bleep] like you hanging around isn't there?

The safe queens are newly acquired; i was not always 66 years old, so yes a lot of my rifles are newer and most of my hunting is behind me and not in front. Most of my rifles that I used when I was hunting more actively are long gone.

I have owned and shot more Classics than you've ever owned and sold them all because they are a pathetic POS. smirk

But you like them which is typical for people who don;t know their ass from their elbow.

I am not impressed by your buddies track record on glamour game, which are mostly stupid, naive, and easy to kill if you get into the country so pitch the hero stuff to people who have never BTDT.

Any dope can kill Alaskan BG. Lets face it....those animals aren't that smart. If you live i Alaska and hunt a lifetime without that sort of track record, you are considered sort of a stiff....right?

Spare me the rural hero horeshidt. You know why Alaskan game is so well regulated? Because the animals are so stupid and easy to kill you clowns would wipe them out in a decade LOL.

If the Tikkers are so great sell all these POS Classics you own and buy some rifles LMAO.

But do tell me more. I enjoy your posts once I figure out WTF you are saying.



What a dip [bleep]... smirk


Such wisdom thanks it's always gereat when one of the prodigy keyboard warriors from 24 hour takes the time to write a well thought out post
Ah man you are so cool thanks for keeping me straight buddy.. If I knew your butt hurt level would of pegged off the butt hurt meter I wouldn't had said anything lol.. What now you are going to come and hunt me down lol wtf.. and thanks for the heads up on Alaskan game being regulated as well.. You are so smart

Last edited by 79S; 09/20/16.

Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Originally Posted by BobinNH
Originally Posted by 79S
You guys crack me up I have two buds in Ak that hunt with tikkas 300 Wsm one has killed 3-4 brown bears, 5-6 black bears, couple mose and caribou.. The other bud has killed At least 5 rams with his tikka (i.e. Dall sheep) last I talked to him he has 19 sheep to his credit, several black bears, some brown bears, moose and caribou.. I load for both of thier rifle one likes the old 190gr hornady btsp and the other likes 168gr Barnes Ttsx. Nothing wrong with tikkas.. And nothing wrong with the classic model 70's... Oh and those two boys wouldn't know what a pre64 was just couple Alaskan boys killing [bleep] not posting pictures of high end guns sitting in gun safes..



Since Im the only one who posted any pictures I assume the safe queens are mine, right? smile

I was trying to show the OP some factory and custom rifles. But of course there's always an [bleep] like you hanging around isn't there?

i was not always 66 years old,

I have owned and shot more Classics than you've ever owned and sold them all because they are a pathetic POS. smirk

But you like them which is typical for people who don;t know their ass from their elbow.




What a dip [bleep]... smirk


Lets evaluate this comment- if you buy something and go man that thing is Pos I'm not buying another one. Then you see another one and go well maybe the other one was just a fluke you buy it and go this is a Pos never again will I buy another one. But by your own admission you did not buy just 1 classic you had several of them. So that goes too show you are not very bright. Next time jot your thoughts to paper read over them before you type them too post on the forums.. Look in the mirror and repeat the word dip [bleep]...


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Thats a great comeback I am woundedLOL how many of those Classics that you have are safe queens? Or is your BG hunting agenda so crowded year round that they all get hunted on a daily basis from SeptembertoDecember.Comeonfessuphowmany ofyourriflesgethuntedeveryyear so they don't look likesafequeens to, waitingwithbatedbreathIamimpressed.

GoloadsomeammoforyourTikkershootingbuddiestheysoundalike real BGhunters to meiftheydidn'tliveinalaskatheylikelycouldn'taffordyoeverhunt there...thosegoodold alaskanbushheroes.

What a [bleep] joke...

Comeonbackafteryoulearntostructureasentenceandusepunctuation...see you in a decade or two.

OnlyaneencephaliticmoronpissesdownmybackandtellsmeitsrainingthanksforthecomplimentIdontthinkyouarecoolatallanddoubtyoucantellusanythingaboutariflethateverybodydoesntalreadyknowhaveaniceday.

Youareoneofthebestargumentsaihaveseenforrevocationofthefirstamendment.

TheresanassholeineverycrowdtellmesomemoreherostoriesaboutyougoodoldAlaskabuddies with Tikkers...bunch of hardchargeerstheyarethattheyhaveYOUto load their ammoforthem.Onlyanidiotloadsammofrootherpeopleyouqualify.

Ifthisispainfultoreaditsexactlyhowyouwriteandcommunicateallthetimeand givesmea headacheifyoucantstructureasentencehowcananyonetrustyoutoloadtheirammo?


Huh??? sick




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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A bit late to the party but here goes. I've had a lot of factory rifles that functioned adequately and shot well enough to hunt with. Many were/are pre '64 M70s but also several Weatherbys, both MkV and Vanguard, and a couple 700 Rems. Started trying custom rifles back in early '80s and have owned examples by many of the big name builders of that era as well as today's. Have a couple built by an accuracy, tactical type builder that shoot well but otherwise don't quite make the grade. Through trial and error I've weeded out all but four men who are capable of putting together a rifle that shoots very well with many loads and functions flawlessly. One is now retired but the others are building rifles that I'd trust on any hunt for any type of game. All build mainly classic type hunting rifles on M70 actions, stocked in fine wood or McMillan handles. I would pick one any day compared to any factory rifle I have owned or handled.

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Originally Posted by John55
A bit late to the party but here goes. I've had a lot of factory rifles that functioned adequately and shot well enough to hunt with. Many were/are pre '64 M70s but also several Weatherbys, both MkV and Vanguard, and a couple 700 Rems. Started trying custom rifles back in early '80s and have owned examples by many of the big name builders of that era as well as today's. Have a couple built by an accuracy, tactical type builder that shoot well but otherwise don't quite make the grade. Through trial and error I've weeded out all but four men who are capable of putting together a rifle that shoots very well with many loads and functions flawlessly. One is now retired but the others are building rifles that I'd trust on any hunt for any type of game. All build mainly classic type hunting rifles on M70 actions, stocked in fine wood or McMillan handles. I would pick one any day compared to any factory rifle I have owned or handled.


I'm guessing their names have already been mentioned on this thread. Or at least some of them. :-)

Last edited by pathfinder76; 09/20/16.
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That would be an accurate assumption in a couple of cases! So to answer the OP's question, yes there are builders out there who can in fact, make a rifle that shoots sub moa with a variety of loads and will feed/function flawlessly. No return trips necessary, no third party work needed. Take it out of the box, load some ammo and go hunt something. Only hangup for many is the cost, it was never cheap and these days some of the prices border on astronomical. If one can afford them and desires what they turn out, he will be rewarded with a lifetime investment in 100% reliable performance and workmanship using quality materials that can be passed down to the next generation. As Allen Day believed, I'd rather have 2 or 3 of these type rifles than an entire closet full of anything else.
But, if one cannot afford or doesn't care to invest the funds necessary to own something like this, he can happily hunt the world with a number of factory produced rifles. I have several friends that do just that, but they are strictly hunters and to them it's simply a tool. Browning A bolts, Sako A7s, current versions of M70s and Weatherbys are their choices and admittedly they get the job done. None of them even reload, shoot nothing but factory ammo.

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I have several custom rifles using different actions from a Ruger #1, Sako, Ruger tang safety M77, and a couple of Mauser actions. ALL are extremely accurate. One of the nice thing IMHO is that with a custom rifle you get it exactly how you want it. I'm taking my latest two (a 25-06 and a 275 Rigby) to Wyoming the first of October to be bloodied on antelope and mule deer. Caliber range is from 257 to 416 and all are a unique experience in and of themselves.

My factory rifles are two Weatherby Ultra lights (257WBY and 7mm-08) a Ruger #1 450-400 and a M77 270 some Coopers and a bunch of Pre 64 M70's. When it's time to go hunting and put game on the ground it's a choice between the Winchesters or the custom rifles.

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I have owned many a factory rifle that shot well, some excellent. Most were able to be accurized easily but some were a pain in the butt, always a crap shoot.
My most accurate reliable rifle I have bought and own and will never part with is Gen 1 Remington 5r mil spec 20" threaded barrel, Consistanly will produce 10 shot dime size groups at 100 yds wth no cool down feeding it FACTORY HORNADY 155 gr AMAX match ammo.
That rifle never needs anything but ammo.

Last edited by Gitsum; 09/21/16.
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I have owned, and still have almost all of them, many factory rifles by just about every major manufacturer as well as quite a few custom rifles. It is painful to think about but I have thrown away a lot of money on some customs. The reason for those mistakes was in choosing a poor builder. I have some factory rifles that will consistently shoot 1/2 MOA and cost a fraction of a custom. It may have taken a little time at the reloading bench bench but for me this is some solid therapy.

The reason for a custom is I prefer to have every component just so. While I will not bash anyone who did a less than great job, which is what I expect when shelling out $3k+ for a rifle, I will always promote those that do good work. One thing about choosing a custom smith is finding someone within driving distance. Building a good relationship is important when spending that kind of money. My go-to builder is Accurate Ordnance. However, I have very good experience with Spartan Precision (CA), Short Action Customs (Ohio), and Ed Delorge (LA).

I have spent many years and a fortune on expensive builds. I have used several different actions, barrels, scopes, etc. Spending more does not always get you what you want. In the case of wasted $$$ I share my experiences so you don't have to suffer the same.

For me, planning a build is part of the fun. My last elk hunt was planned for 4 years and I took a lot of time poking over every aspect of it, including each part of the rifle. Although the shot took less than one second, I felt like it was a years long journey. Very rewarding.

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I am a Hunter and a rifle junkie and I too have thrown away a lot of money on factory rifles in my case. Have kept every factory ammo shooter I have bought, some needed some accurizing but only those I could work on got a spot in my safe. I am now building my first rifle (REMAGE) setup from the ground up. Have had a number of people suggest I buy this factory rifle or that factory rifle.
It's not about finding another factory rifle that will shoot. It's about building a rifle that not only will shoot (hopefully) it's about building a rifle by myself (no smith) my way and exactly in the configuration that is exactly what I want and fits me to the "T" Then takin that rifle to the woods and harvesting game with MY RIFLE.

Unless I get a bad barrel I am 100% confident MY RIFLE will shoot when I am done.

And if I do get a bad barrel, I'll unscrew it and screw on another one.

Last edited by Gitsum; 09/21/16.
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Originally Posted by elkhunternm
Dakota M 76 7mm Dakota,it has shot every bullet I chose into itty-bitty groups and that includes 160 gr NP,150 gr NP,140 gr NBT and the only one it shot bad was the Winchester 150 gr Power Point.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Settled on the 140 gr NBT going at 3340 fps average.


Dang that's a good looking rifle!


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Two of my favorite custom jobs. A 275 Rigby [Linked Image]

a 7mm-08[Linked Image]

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Those are REAL nice. Love the CCH.....

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With customs you get what you pay for.

If you spend $2-3K for a completed gun you're getting a reassembly job and you get what you pay for. Most of these tend to be accurate depending upon the level of competency you get.

The 4 figure $$$$ guns- for fit finish and beautiful wood, with a rifle that will shoot kill zone accuracy 1-1.5". They are happy with that and say it is in the kill zone. Fit/finish is impeccable and they will feed in the instance you are hanging upside down in a tree.

IMO the best guns are made by the few who combine the accuracy and function. These guys go through and redo an action and then assemble for accuracy. You will spend $2-3K for the smithing alone. Wood or plastic barrels a la carte.

A little hyperbole to try to get the point across (which of course nobody on internet forums seem to get - it's either all black or white).

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This was during load development for the Rigby.[Linked Image][Linked Image]

wood on the 7MM-08
[Linked Image][Linked Image]

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