Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 25-06 vs 6.5-06 vs 280AI

If the wife gets distracted I might get me one of these.

I read a Varmint Hunter mag article by Steve Timm about 12 years ago or so and the only thing in the world I thought about for several months was the 280AI.

But I think I might maybe get a 6.5-06 built.

Can you spot your own shots with the right load?

The claims of spotting yer own shots with the 25-06 intrigue my mind greatly.

How come the 25 cal bullets cannot get the same super high B'C's of the 6.5 clan?

I can't spot my shots with my 25-06AI, but it's not a super heavyweight.

That has been off my side mirror at Prairie dogs though.

Might be different on a steadier rest.

Better wait for a gunwriter!

As far as bc's, I guess there isn't much interest in making the high bc bullets. No reason why they couldn't though.

RW, if you don't have a .280AI you might oughta give it some serious though. Nothing better off the 30.06 case. Just say'n

One of each please.

traditional 1 in 10" standard twist is the limiting factor on the quarter bore for LR

6.5 bore has been traditionally twisted 1 in 8" for 160 grain RN, hence the new longer higher BC bullets will stabilize.

6.5 x 64 Brenneke = 6.5 -.270Win ( Longer Neck than 6.5'06 )

If you are playing with a long action with sufficient magazine length, the 6.5x280AI is very tempting, with nearly same same capacity as the 6.5 SAUM

Would the 25 caliber bullets have enough energy at the distance that the BC would be beneficial on animals larger than varmints?

FWIW, I love my 7 SAUM and 25-06.

Define longer shots. I've shot an antelope at much greater than 400 yards (probably close to 600 yards) with a 25-06. It had plenty of energy. It dropped in it's tracks. OK, it was a lucky shot.

I didn't have a range finder and I base my distance estimation on walking to the antelope and the number of fence posts between me and the antelope.

That was when I was much younger. I no longer consider that a great thing, only poor hunting skills. I have not shot anything near that distance since.

PM inc

I have a 6.5-06 AI and it can't hang with the SAUM, mainly because the primer pockets start to go above 3050 fps with a 140, which is less than what guys are getting out of the SAUM.

You might get more using 280 AI brass but that'll cost you.

Spotting your own hits would be possible with just about any
cartridge. But would require the proper backdrop as in no weeds or
brush to hide them from your view. A second person acting as a
spotter can be very helpful, and sometimes essential.
All the cartridges mentioned would be good ones, but bullet selection choices would be better with the 6.5 and .284 for the longer shooting.

I can't spot hits with my 6.5 and 140s. It weighs 9 lbs.

"Spotting hits" involved a bunch of factors: how hard the rifle recoils, the stock design, how much weight is out front in the barrel, whether the rifle has a muzzle brake, how firmly the rifle's being held, the magnification of the scope, the range to the target, etc. etc. But I've hunted with all three rounds and at "normal" hunting ranges, say out to 300-400 yards, I can't spot hits with any of them when using scopes around 6x. (In fact, I can't actually spot all my shots at 100 yards with any rifle that kicks much harder than a .22 Hornet, and at 150-200 yards with anything larger than a sporter weight .204 Ruger or heavy-barreled .223 Remington.)

In my experience all three cartridges kill big game well at ranges out to 400 yards when the nut behind the bolt places bullets correctly. Can't say about longer ranges because I haven't used them beyond 400.

If you do the .280 AI first it will be hard to justify the other two. The 6.5-06AI would split the difference nicely.
Depends on the use and range but no fly's on the 25-06 for Deer and Antelope at reasonable ranges. Only if game larger than deer and/or extreme ranges are involved would the other two show a marked improvement over the 25.

The practical choice would be a .270. I can't spot shots on anything bigger than a .22 either but don't shoot true heavy weight target rifles.

another vote for all three

I vote for 6.5-06. Cause I don't have one.

I have both ends of the three but not the middle. I like the .25-06 best because I trust it. It has dropped antelope, whitetail and mule deer, and a few coyotes in their tracks so many times that I take it for granted that it will. Recoil is mild and reloading for it is easy.

In truth any one of them is great.

I've had all 3 and kept the 6.5-06.Unless you have some kind of love affair with the 25-06 the other 2 offer enough advantages in good quality high BC bullets to shelve any thoughts of a 25-06.If I didn't own 7mm-08's and 7mm Rem Mag's I'd probably pick the 280 AI over the 6.5-06.I really enjoy my 6.5-06 good performance and light recoil however if you don't build one with a 26" barrel you might as well just buy a 7mm-08. I cannot spot hits with any of them all sporter weight rifles.

"if you don't build one with a 26" barrel you might as well just buy a 7mm-08."

Really? You gotta go 26 to burn the powder? I never thought of that.

To get a good 25-06 you gotta go custom to get a fast twist anyhow. I think you are probably right on all counts. Those super super high 6.5 B/C's are always hard to ignore when comparing these things.

Hardly.

IME with a 24" barrel the 6.5-06 really wont do anything velocity wise with 120 and 140 gr bullets that the 7-08 won't. If you have had different results I'd like to hear them.

Except shoot a bullet with a BC of better than .600 at 2950 fps. Or in the AI version, 3050 fps.

I would take the 280AI in a heart beat.

Yep, because with handloads it'll be right there with the 7RM.

I assume your talking about 140 gr class bullets. IME with a 24" barrel you have to lean on it to get there my last build was supposed to be a 26" tube and arrived at 241/2 it won't get 2950 with 140's. It's a great cartridge but not one that is usually built for a woods rifle so I would build with a 26" barrel and look for 3000 fps with 140's

My brother and I both have 6.5-06ai's. His is shooting 140's at 3220. He is on the 6th or 7th loading on that brass. It's a great shooting gun. 26" barrel.

Mine I haven't even shot yet so can't say what the numbers are yet. Hoping mine is as accurate as his is.

Regards, Branden

33s

Lots of guys get 2950 with a 24" barrel and 140s. MD's load uses 56 grains H-1000. I use 60 grains to get 3050+ with my 24" barreled AI. No sweat.

Branden, what brass is he using? The primer pockets get loose on mine if I go too much over 3050 with the 24" barrel.

140's at 3,200 is 26 Nosler territory.

Someone needs to do a Quickload psi analysis on that load.

Gotta be interesting.

DF

I'd go with a factory 25-06 and shoot Nosler 115BTs for everything. Plenty easy.

I am having fun with my 25-06 Improved.

Already have a couple 264 WM'S in the safe. Maybe a .280 someday.

A person should really be looking at a 29-06. Then you would really have something.

Anything in that category is more OK with me than just about anything else....

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/65...257-diameter-115-grain-spitzer-box-of-50

Midway lists the B/C for that bullet at .453

What twist for those?


Brian Litz gives the B/C tip of the hat to the better 7mm's

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/bulletguide/

I'll ask him. I know he tried the same load in mine and it was like 150 fps slower and only around 1 moa. Mine is a 27" barrel.

I used his 6.5 this year on a buck since its the most accurate gun we own between us. Wanted to make sure I did everything I could to be successful.

Tuff,
That is an awesome mulie! congradulations

What bullet did you use in your 6.5-06?

Also what range etc...

Berger 140 grain it was only 225 yards.

What a hog, congrats.

The 6.5-06 is a cool cartridge, I like mine. That said, it really doesn't do anything better than a 25-06, 270, 280 etc for me. I get 3200 with 120s and 3100 with 130s. My last couple 25-06s gave the same speed with 115s as my 6.5-06 does with 120s. If you run the numbers, there's nothing to write home about. I suppose sleek 140s at 3k would make things interesting, but again, when you run the numbers, there's just really nothing there to get giddy about. All will kill just fine, so there's no wrong answer.

Dang fine buck tuff. Congrats!!

In the finer nuance of the issue though, the 6.5's and 7mm's have substantially higher B/C's

But with the lighter bullet the time of flight can be less and cancel out?, (maybe?)

I'll have to fiddle with the exbal program and do some head scratchin.

Maybe barrel life is the deciding factor.

Make sure and throw the 6.5 123 grain scenar in your equation.

Besides the obvious advantage in bullets with 6.5 and 7mm.... The ability to spot impacts of your shots is mostly about how you shoot the gun- your body position, rest, and then scope magnification. Seeing impacts is about straight line recoil. A neutral body position straight behind the gun, with the butt seated deep in the shoulder imparting no angular deviation during recoil. The way I learned, and pretty much how the whole shooting world learned to shoot rifles (angled body, twisted shoulders, butt stock high, etc) is horrible for straight line recoil.



Using moderate magnification of up to 10x, though often 6x, I spot nearly 100% of shots from around 100 yards on out with 6 and 7lb 223's and no brakes shooting heavy bullets. With sub 7lb 243's around 90% from 100yds and out. This continues all the way to 8lb 300 win mags with 180's where I start catching impacts from around 300 yards on out. The more recoil and/or the more magnification (smaller FOV) the further out one will start catching impacts. Having said that, obviously the less recoil the easier it is.

Smokepole he is using Remington and Winchester brass, and getting 6-7 loadings per.

Regards, Branden.

Thanks.

I shoot all three (except no silly AI on the .280) and the differences seem slim. Some guys here have noted the slightly better characteristics of the 6.5 and .284 bullets at best weights. These "mid" cartridges are really versatile - I really appreciate and take advantage of that. Give me any of those, a .22/250 and a .338 Win Mag and I'm ready for any game in the US or most other places.

25s can't go as high BC-wise because of the industry standard 1-in-10" twist vs 1-in-8.5-9 in 6.5mm.

I have a 257 AI (very near equal 25-06) & am building a 6.5-06 but just sold my 280 AI because at hunting ranges I can't tell the difference. You didn't mention ranges but beyond 400 I'd say BC becomes a factor. 600 it becomes more substantial, and 800 it makes all the difference.

I'd LOVE to shoot out a 25-06 I bet it'd be LOADS of FUN!!! Of course the smaller the hole the fewer the shots before shot out, but my 257 AI has >2500 rounds and is still going strong tho I've been chasing lands a little.

Personally I love the 25-06, but in this question there is no wrong answer tho I'd suggest the best one is "do all three"!!

Sweet buck tuff!! Congrats....

I have owned and shot 25-06 and 6.5-06 rifles and my son has a 280AI. All three cartridges work well, so I decided to keep my favorite 6.5-06 and shoot 123 Scenars in wind when needed due to the fact they shoot extremely well in this rifle....