24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 10 1 2 3 4 9 10
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Originally Posted by MojoHand
Originally Posted by barm

Are you trying to point out the difference between religion and God? For example, religion is a creation of man, not God. Therefore you can still believe in God, but not be religious.


Umm,

No you can't.

Definition of religion:

:the belief in a god or in a group of gods

: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods

Furthermore, your claim that religion (and you're using the second, more specific, definition) is man made is demonstrably false.


Incorrect...I am not religious, in point of fact I would be most comfortable with seeing all organised religious entities and organisations physically forced upon the sharpened stake.

There is God...and only one God.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
BP-B2

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,866
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,866

Originally Posted by Calvin
America was never really a christian nation. Most identified identify as Christians, but really had have no intention of actually following Christ. I am fine with a decline in church attendance.


Excellent point, Calvin (I 'updated' it for you!). smile

I refer to those people as 'practical atheists'. People who say they believe in God (and even Jesus as God), but whose lives are indistinguishable from other moral, non believers (including other religions). I have many friends that fall into this category. Their belief in God makes no appreciable difference in their lives vis-á-vis my unbelieving friends. Doesn't make them evil or bad people--just no different....

I believe other surveys have shown that ~80%+ Americans self-identify as 'christians'. Given the state of America (with regards to fundagelical standards), it would seem there are many 'practical atheists'.

Btw, the survey showed that it is not just church attendance declining but a significant reduction in 'believers'.


It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...

Most people don't want to believe the truth~they want the truth to be what they believe.

Stupidity has no average...
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,866
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,866
Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by MojoHand

Umm,

No you can't.

Definition of religion:

:the belief in a god or in a group of gods


: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods

Furthermore, your claim that religion (and you're using the second, more specific, definition) is man made is demonstrably false.


Incorrect...I am not religious, in point of fact I would be most comfortable with seeing all organised religious entities and organisations physically forced upon the sharpened stake.

There is God...and only one God.


laugh

BTW....who is he and what is he like? whistle wink


It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...

Most people don't want to believe the truth~they want the truth to be what they believe.

Stupidity has no average...
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Originally Posted by MojoHand


laugh

BTW....who is he and what is he like? whistle wink


Fuck knows, and any that tell you different is a lying piece of rubbish bent upon control.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,253
C
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
C
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,253
The PC culture has made it harder to identify as a "believer". That's fine. Those folks were never really that into it to begin with. A time is coming where a person will really have to count the costs. And I am not talking some idiots who wouldn't bake a cake or some other self inflicted victim hood.

IC B2

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,073
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,073
If everyone who said they believed in God attended church this Sunday , the buildings would not hold them all.
You need to read Matt 16:18 regarding church. The Bible talks of members of the body with Christ being the head. You may not want to be involved with the body but I think it's required. Hasbeen


hasbeen
(Better a has been than a never was!)

NRA Patron member
Try to live your life where the preacher doesn't have to lie at your funeral
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,594
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,594
Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by MojoHand


laugh

BTW....who is he and what is he like? whistle wink


Fuck knows, and any that tell you different is a lying piece of rubbish bent upon control.


Or your money.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
R
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
R
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
Originally Posted by MojoHand
Originally Posted by RickyD
Originally Posted by MojoHand
New survey reveals interesting (but not surprising) statistics about religion in America.

http://www.prri.org/research/prri-rns-2016-religiously-unaffiliated-americans/
Religion fails everyone. Church's fail most. A relationship with the God of all Creation, made possible by the sacrifice of His Son Jesus, and nurtured by the Holy Spirit fails no one. Even you.



Interesting that despite this being the core fundagelical claim, many are still rejecting and leaving 'religion'. Most of whom (according to the survey) are doing so because they reject the idea of a personal God and/or the teachings of the 'faithful'.


Not according to the article you posted:

"Despite their lack of connection to formal religious institutions, most unaffiliated Americans retain a belief in God or a higher power."

All unaffiliated means is they are no longer affiliated with a denomination, not that they are now atheists.

I get that many are disenfranchised by incorrect the teaching of churches and stated in my post that churches fail many.

All this article proves is many, like me, have left traditional denominations for groups that truly rightly divide the word. I'm also sure that many just leave their denomination and are left confused and broken in their faith. Sad, but inevitable, in these times.

It doesn't matter one way or the other to me. I know what is true by my experiences that validate my faith. That you don't, no doubt is the reason you and others believe they have to denigrate the faith of those who hold it. Carry on. Most Christians on here are of rock solid faith and posts like this are not even a speed bump in their awesome walk with the God of All.


We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?

Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,594
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,594
Originally Posted by Calvin
The PC culture has made it harder to identify as a "believer". That's fine. Those folks were never really that into it to begin with. A time is coming where a person will really have to count the costs. And I am not talking some idiots who wouldn't bake a cake or some other self inflicted victim hood.


Calvin,

That's always been part of the equation. For some of the Religious categories in the survey 80% married within their own religion. If your group is only 10% of the population, there can be a significant interplay between romance and belief.

Historically the stakes were often much higher, including a cord of dry wood for those who did not toe the line.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,594
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,594
Originally Posted by RickyD
Originally Posted by MojoHand
Originally Posted by RickyD
Originally Posted by MojoHand
New survey reveals interesting (but not surprising) statistics about religion in America.

http://www.prri.org/research/prri-rns-2016-religiously-unaffiliated-americans/
Religion fails everyone. Church's fail most. A relationship with the God of all Creation, made possible by the sacrifice of His Son Jesus, and nurtured by the Holy Spirit fails no one. Even you.



Interesting that despite this being the core fundagelical claim, many are still rejecting and leaving 'religion'. Most of whom (according to the survey) are doing so because they reject the idea of a personal God and/or the teachings of the 'faithful'.


Not according to the article you posted:

"Despite their lack of connection to formal religious institutions, most unaffiliated Americans retain a belief in God or a higher power."

All unaffiliated means is they are no longer affiliated with a denomination, not that they are now atheists.

I get that many are disenfranchised by incorrect the teaching of churches and stated in my post that churches fail many.

All this article proves is many, like me, have left traditional denominations for groups that truly rightly divide the word. I'm also sure that many just leave their denomination and are left confused and broken in their faith. Sad, but inevitable, in these times.

It doesn't matter one way or the other to me. I know what is true by my experiences that validate my faith. That you don't, no doubt is the reason you and others believe they have to denigrate the faith of those who hold it. Carry on. Most Christians on here are of rock solid faith and posts like this are not even a speed bump in their awesome walk with the God of All.


Reading comprehension is not your strength.

Read further into the article and look at the deeper trends. As Curdog's generation die off, as Generation Z joins the rank of this survey age, the trend will only accelerate.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
IC B3

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,344
R
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
R
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,344
Originally Posted by MojoHand
Originally Posted by Robert_White
http://wesley.nnu.edu/john-wesley/t...auses-of-the-inefficacy-of-christianity/

Excerpt from Wesley's Sermon, 116,
"The Causes of the Inefficacy of Christianity"


The Methodists grow more and more self-indulgent, because they grow rich. Although many of them are still deplorably poor; ("tell it not in Gath; publish it not in the streets of Askelon!") yet many others, in the space of twenty, thirty, or forty years, are twenty, thirty, yea, a hundred times richer than they were when they first entered the society. And it is an observation which admits of few exceptions, that nine in ten of these decreased in grace, in the same proportion as they increased in wealth. Indeed, according to the natural tendency of riches, we cannot expect it to be otherwise.

17. But how astonishing a thing is this! How can we understand it Does it not seem (and yet this cannot be) that Christianity, true scriptural Christianity, has a tendency, in process of time, to undermine and destroy itself For wherever true Christianity spreads, it must cause diligence and frugality, which), in the natural course of things, must beget riches! and riches naturally beget pride, love of the world, and every temper that is destructive of Christianity. Now, if there be no way to prevent this, Christianity is inconsistent with itself, and, of consequence, cannot stand, cannot continue long among any people; since, wherever it generally prevails, it saps its own foundation.

18. But is there no way to prevent this -- to continue Christianity among a people Allowing that diligence and frugality must produce riches, is there no means to hinder riches from destroying the religion of those that possess them I can see only one possible way; find out another who can. Do you gain all you can, and save all you can Then you must, in the nature of things, grow rich. Then if you have any desire to escape the damnation of hell, give all you can; otherwise I can have no more hope of your salvation, than of that of Judas Iscariot.

19. I call God to record upon my soul, that I advise no more than I practise. I do, blessed be God, gain, and save, and give all I can. And so, I trust in God, I shall do, while the breath of God is in my nostrils. But what then I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Jesus my Lord! Still,

I give up every plea beside, -- Lord, I am damn'd! but thou hast died!

Dublin, July 2, 1789.

Edited by George Lyons with corrections by Ryan Danker for the Wesley Center for Applied Theology of Northwest Nazarene University (Nampa, ID).

Copyright 1999 by the Wesley Center for Applied Theology. Text may be freely used for personal or scholarly purposes or mirrored on other web sites, provided this notice is left intact. Any use of this material for commercial purposes of any kind is strictly forbidden without the express permission of the Wesley Center at Northwest Nazarene University, Nampa, ID 83686. Contact webmaster for permission.


I'm afraid that and Mark 10 won't go over too well with many American Christians.....


I think Wesley was right in his observation. Great wealth and ease tend to destroy Christians from the inside. Manifested grace decreases in proportion as wealth increases.

But the persecuted Church in China is exploding in growth:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...st-Christian-nation-within-15-years.html


China on course to become 'world's most Christian nation' within 15 years
The number of Christians in Communist China is growing so steadily that it by 2030 it could have more churchgoers than America


Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven.
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,344
R
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
R
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,344
No True Scotsman’ Fallacy
Explanation
The no true scotsman fallacy is a way of reinterpreting evidence in order to prevent the refutation of one’s position. Proposed counter-examples to a theory are dismissed as irrelevant solely because they are counter-examples, but purportedly because they are not what the theory is about.
Example
The No True Scotsman fallacy involves discounting evidence that would refute a proposition, concluding that it hasn’t been falsified when in fact it has.
If Angus, a Glaswegian, who puts sugar on his porridge, is proposed as a counter-example to the claim “No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge”, the ‘No true Scotsman’ fallacy would run as follows:
(1) Angus puts sugar on his porridge.
(2) No (true) Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.
Therefore:
(3) Angus is not a (true) Scotsman.
Therefore:
(4) Angus is not a counter-example to the claim that no Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.
This fallacy is a form of circular argument, with an existing belief being assumed to be true in order to dismiss any apparent counter-examples to it. The existing belief thus becomes unfalsifiable.


Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Originally Posted by Robert_White


China on course to become 'world's most Christian nation' within 15 years
The number of Christians in Communist China is growing so steadily that it by 2030 it could have more churchgoers than America


Whilst the West struggles with islam...the irony is almost too much to bear.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,344
R
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
R
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,344
Originally Posted by MojoHand
Yes.

One is a subset of the other and both are failing as evidenced by the research.

The false separation of 'religion' from 'believers' is a tactic invented by Christians to explain/excuse away the fact they have been losing (lost) the intellectual, scientific, moral, and cultural wars for a long time now. In this way, they can explain away unfavorable religious demographic shifts and lousy personal examples of Christianity as not representing the 'true faith'.

It's called the fallacy of equivocation and it is a bedrock of Christian apologetics.
(Also falls under the example of 'No True Scot' fallacy)



What's interesting is WHY the cultural shift. While the survey touched on disgust with religion's treatment of of certain groups, it showed that the majority of UA was due to rejection of the teachings of religion. I'm curious as to why so many reject those teachings in today's world--especially as many were taught them from an early age, which is the best way to indoctrinate people.



The "bedrock of Christian apologetics" is not the "No True Scot" fallacy.

The bedrock of Christian apologetics is best exemplified by John Locke's treatise, "The Reasonableness of Christianity", an appeal to empirical evidence that leads one to reasonably conclude that the claims of Christianity are in fact, true.


Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,769
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,769
MojoHand,

Quote
What's interesting is WHY the cultural shift.


It is very easy to understand if you read an American history book printed about one hundred years ago and one printed about seventy years ago. The newer one presents information that is inconsistent with the facts.


"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,594
A
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,594
Originally Posted by Robert_White
Originally Posted by MojoHand
Yes.

One is a subset of the other and both are failing as evidenced by the research.

The false separation of 'religion' from 'believers' is a tactic invented by Christians to explain/excuse away the fact they have been losing (lost) the intellectual, scientific, moral, and cultural wars for a long time now. In this way, they can explain away unfavorable religious demographic shifts and lousy personal examples of Christianity as not representing the 'true faith'.

It's called the fallacy of equivocation and it is a bedrock of Christian apologetics.
(Also falls under the example of 'No True Scot' fallacy)



What's interesting is WHY the cultural shift. While the survey touched on disgust with religion's treatment of of certain groups, it showed that the majority of UA was due to rejection of the teachings of religion. I'm curious as to why so many reject those teachings in today's world--especially as many were taught them from an early age, which is the best way to indoctrinate people.



The "bedrock of Christian apologetics" is not the "No True Scot" fallacy.

The bedrock of Christian apologetics is best exemplified by John Locke's treatise, "The Reasonableness of Christianity", an appeal to empirical evidence that leads one to reasonably conclude that the claims of Christianity are in fact, true.


That Thesis fall on it's first supposition in the first sentence:

"IT is obvious to any one, who reads the New Testa
ment, that the doctrine of redemption, and conse
quently of the gospel, is founded upon the supposition
of Adam s fall."


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,392
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,392
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by CCCC
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by CCCC
Mojo, as the starter of this thread, do you understand any distinction between "religion" as "religious organizations" and "religion" the religious beliefs and commitments of individuals (including those of like faith who bond in beliefs and worship)? If you do, kindly explain such understanding(s).

Looks like you didn't read the study.

Obviously, your vision is lousy - like your logic. The question/request was not about the study, it was with regard to the poster.

If you'd read the study you would know there was questions in it addressing exactly this question, pre-nullifying your question. If you wanted to address this question, you could of done so more effectively address the study, but that was not your intent. Per usual, you are just here to throw stones.

AS, you are hopeless when it comes to honest discussion. I asked the poster a question about his/her understanding of a dichotomy. You leaped in, set up a diversionary premise, and attacked on that basis. Not good form - weak - revealing, once again.

Throwing stones? Moi?? Shut down the diversionary part of your brain, open the rest, and try to get this. The content of that study is one thing, the thinking of the poster is another matter. Can you grasp that?

I don't know your values or beliefs, so I can't comment on those. But, I know your demonstrated BEHAVIOR on here, so that is fair game. If calling out your demonstrated behavior is throwing stones, so be it. If you are going to behave in a way that makes you a target, maybe develop a more effective ducking technique.


NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,392
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,392
Originally Posted by Robert_White
No True Scotsman’ Fallacy
Explanation
The no true scotsman fallacy is a way of reinterpreting evidence in order to prevent the refutation of one’s position. Proposed counter-examples to a theory are dismissed as irrelevant solely because they are counter-examples, but purportedly because they are not what the theory is about.
Example
The No True Scotsman fallacy involves discounting evidence that would refute a proposition, concluding that it hasn’t been falsified when in fact it has.
If Angus, a Glaswegian, who puts sugar on his porridge, is proposed as a counter-example to the claim “No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge”, the ‘No true Scotsman’ fallacy would run as follows:
(1) Angus puts sugar on his porridge.
(2) No (true) Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.
Therefore:
(3) Angus is not a (true) Scotsman.
Therefore:
(4) Angus is not a counter-example to the claim that no Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.
This fallacy is a form of circular argument, with an existing belief being assumed to be true in order to dismiss any apparent counter-examples to it. The existing belief thus becomes unfalsifiable.

Thanks, RW. Illuminates one of AS's techniques.


NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
R
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
R
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by RickyD
Originally Posted by MojoHand
Originally Posted by RickyD
Originally Posted by MojoHand
New survey reveals interesting (but not surprising) statistics about religion in America.

http://www.prri.org/research/prri-rns-2016-religiously-unaffiliated-americans/
Religion fails everyone. Church's fail most. A relationship with the God of all Creation, made possible by the sacrifice of His Son Jesus, and nurtured by the Holy Spirit fails no one. Even you.



Interesting that despite this being the core fundagelical claim, many are still rejecting and leaving 'religion'. Most of whom (according to the survey) are doing so because they reject the idea of a personal God and/or the teachings of the 'faithful'.


Not according to the article you posted:

"Despite their lack of connection to formal religious institutions, most unaffiliated Americans retain a belief in God or a higher power."

All unaffiliated means is they are no longer affiliated with a denomination, not that they are now atheists.

I get that many are disenfranchised by incorrect the teaching of churches and stated in my post that churches fail many.

All this article proves is many, like me, have left traditional denominations for groups that truly rightly divide the word. I'm also sure that many just leave their denomination and are left confused and broken in their faith. Sad, but inevitable, in these times.

It doesn't matter one way or the other to me. I know what is true by my experiences that validate my faith. That you don't, no doubt is the reason you and others believe they have to denigrate the faith of those who hold it. Carry on. Most Christians on here are of rock solid faith and posts like this are not even a speed bump in their awesome walk with the God of All.


Reading comprehension is not your strength.

Neither is it yours:
Quote
It doesn't matter one way or the other to me. I know what is true by my experiences that validate my faith. That you don't, no doubt is the reason you and others believe they have to denigrate the faith of those who hold it. Carry on. Most Christians on here are of rock solid faith and posts like this are not even a speed bump in their awesome walk with the God of All.


I had read enough by then. I have no doubt religion will shrink and also the numbers of Christians. The world is winding down. It's simply a last days thing. Anyone who doesn't see that has no eyes to see or ears to hear.


We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?

Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
R
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
R
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
Originally Posted by Robert_White
Originally Posted by MojoHand
Originally Posted by Robert_White
http://wesley.nnu.edu/john-wesley/t...auses-of-the-inefficacy-of-christianity/

Excerpt from Wesley's Sermon, 116,
"The Causes of the Inefficacy of Christianity"


The Methodists grow more and more self-indulgent, because they grow rich. Although many of them are still deplorably poor; ("tell it not in Gath; publish it not in the streets of Askelon!") yet many others, in the space of twenty, thirty, or forty years, are twenty, thirty, yea, a hundred times richer than they were when they first entered the society. And it is an observation which admits of few exceptions, that nine in ten of these decreased in grace, in the same proportion as they increased in wealth. Indeed, according to the natural tendency of riches, we cannot expect it to be otherwise.

17. But how astonishing a thing is this! How can we understand it Does it not seem (and yet this cannot be) that Christianity, true scriptural Christianity, has a tendency, in process of time, to undermine and destroy itself For wherever true Christianity spreads, it must cause diligence and frugality, which), in the natural course of things, must beget riches! and riches naturally beget pride, love of the world, and every temper that is destructive of Christianity. Now, if there be no way to prevent this, Christianity is inconsistent with itself, and, of consequence, cannot stand, cannot continue long among any people; since, wherever it generally prevails, it saps its own foundation.

18. But is there no way to prevent this -- to continue Christianity among a people Allowing that diligence and frugality must produce riches, is there no means to hinder riches from destroying the religion of those that possess them I can see only one possible way; find out another who can. Do you gain all you can, and save all you can Then you must, in the nature of things, grow rich. Then if you have any desire to escape the damnation of hell, give all you can; otherwise I can have no more hope of your salvation, than of that of Judas Iscariot.

19. I call God to record upon my soul, that I advise no more than I practise. I do, blessed be God, gain, and save, and give all I can. And so, I trust in God, I shall do, while the breath of God is in my nostrils. But what then I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Jesus my Lord! Still,

I give up every plea beside, -- Lord, I am damn'd! but thou hast died!

Dublin, July 2, 1789.

Edited by George Lyons with corrections by Ryan Danker for the Wesley Center for Applied Theology of Northwest Nazarene University (Nampa, ID).

Copyright 1999 by the Wesley Center for Applied Theology. Text may be freely used for personal or scholarly purposes or mirrored on other web sites, provided this notice is left intact. Any use of this material for commercial purposes of any kind is strictly forbidden without the express permission of the Wesley Center at Northwest Nazarene University, Nampa, ID 83686. Contact webmaster for permission.


I'm afraid that and Mark 10 won't go over too well with many American Christians.....


I think Wesley was right in his observation. Great wealth and ease tend to destroy Christians from the inside. Manifested grace decreases in proportion as wealth increases.

But the persecuted Church in China is exploding in growth:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...st-Christian-nation-within-15-years.html


China on course to become 'world's most Christian nation' within 15 years
The number of Christians in Communist China is growing so steadily that it by 2030 it could have more churchgoers than America
China will kill them by the tens or hundreds of millions before they let that happen. So will Hillary.


We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?

Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
Page 2 of 10 1 2 3 4 9 10

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
111 members (338reddog, 10gaugemag, 300_savage, 17 invisible), 1,312 guests, and 733 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,588
Posts18,397,850
Members73,815
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.138s Queries: 14 (0.002s) Memory: 0.9369 MB (Peak: 1.1290 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 07:55:01 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS