Despite their lack of connection to formal religious institutions, most unaffiliated Americans retain a belief in God or a higher power. A majority of unaffiliated Americans say God is either a person with whom people can have a relationship (22%) or an impersonal force (37%). Only one-third (33%) of religiously unaffiliated Americans say they do not believe in God. Strong majorities of Americans who belong to the major Christian religious traditions hold a personal conception of God. Compared to Christians, Americans who identify with a non-Christian tradition are significantly less likely to hold a personal conception of God (33%) and are more likely to say God is an impersonal force in the universe (49%
Despite their lack of connection to formal religious institutions, most unaffiliated Americans retain a belief in God or a higher power. A majority of unaffiliated Americans say God is either a person with whom people can have a relationship (22%) or an impersonal force (37%). Only one-third (33%) of religiously unaffiliated Americans say they do not believe in God. Strong majorities of Americans who belong to the major Christian religious traditions hold a personal conception of God. Compared to Christians, Americans who identify with a non-Christian tradition are significantly less likely to hold a personal conception of God (33%) and are more likely to say God is an impersonal force in the universe (49%
Exactly.
Not to mention the large numbers leaving the church. If they can't retain people who have been raised in the system, how do they expect to gain and keep new converts?
It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...
Most people don't want to believe the truth~they want the truth to be what they believe.
Religion, thus "churches" should provide the marketplace with two things:
1. An avenue for charitable works.
2. Provide spiritual nourishment to its congregation.
With the expansion of spiritually based self-help [a contradiction in terms for sure] groups AND the rise of non-traditional worship groups - locally we have Cowboy Churches for instance - which are not included in the data, those traditional congregations which have neglected the two essentials are losing market share.
...Not to mention the large numbers leaving the church. If they can't retain people who have been raised in the system, how do they expect to gain and keep new converts?
Why do you care? You have made it very obvious here that you are vehemently opposed to religion, much less faith. There is a difference, you know.
Ed
"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell
Mojo, as the starter of this thread, do you understand any distinction between "religion" as "religious organizations" and "religion" as the religious beliefs and commitments of individuals (including those of like faith who bond in beliefs and worship)? If you do, kindly explain such understanding(s).
Despite their lack of connection to formal religious institutions, most unaffiliated Americans retain a belief in God or a higher power. A majority of unaffiliated Americans say God is either a person with whom people can have a relationship (22%) or an impersonal force (37%). Only one-third (33%) of religiously unaffiliated Americans say they do not believe in God. Strong majorities of Americans who belong to the major Christian religious traditions hold a personal conception of God. Compared to Christians, Americans who identify with a non-Christian tradition are significantly less likely to hold a personal conception of God (33%) and are more likely to say God is an impersonal force in the universe (49%
Exactly.
Not to mention the large numbers leaving the church. If they can't retain people who have been raised in the system, how do they expect to gain and keep new converts?
Are you trying to point out the difference between religion and God? For example, religion is a creation of man, not God. Therefore you can still believe in God, but not be religious.
Religion fails everyone. Church's fail most. A relationship with the God of all Creation, made possible by the sacrifice of His Son Jesus, and nurtured by the Holy Spirit fails no one. Even you.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
Mojo, as the starter of this thread, do you understand any distinction between "religion" as "religious organizations" and "religion" the religious beliefs and commitments of individuals (including those of like faith who bond in beliefs and worship)? If you do, kindly explain such understanding(s).
Looks like you didn't read the study.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Are you trying to point out the difference between religion and God? For example, religion is a creation of man, not God. Therefore you can still believe in God, but not be religious.
Umm,
No you can't.
Definition of religion:
:the belief in a god or in a group of gods
: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods
Furthermore, your claim that religion (and you're using the second, more specific, definition) is man made is demonstrably false.
It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...
Most people don't want to believe the truth~they want the truth to be what they believe.
Religion fails everyone. Church's fail most. A relationship with the God of all Creation, made possible by the sacrifice of His Son Jesus, and nurtured by the Holy Spirit fails no one. Even you.
Interesting that despite this being the core fundagelical claim, many are still rejecting and leaving 'religion'. Most of whom (according to the survey) are doing so because they reject the idea of a personal God and/or the teachings of the 'faithful'.
It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...
Most people don't want to believe the truth~they want the truth to be what they believe.
Mojo, as the starter of this thread, do you understand any distinction between "religion" as "religious organizations" and "religion" the religious beliefs and commitments of individuals (including those of like faith who bond in beliefs and worship)? If you do, kindly explain such understanding(s).
Looks like you didn't read the study.
Obviously, your vision is lousy - like your logic. The question/request was not about the study, it was with regard to the poster.
Excerpt from Wesley's Sermon, 116, "The Causes of the Inefficacy of Christianity"
The Methodists grow more and more self-indulgent, because they grow rich. Although many of them are still deplorably poor; ("tell it not in Gath; publish it not in the streets of Askelon!") yet many others, in the space of twenty, thirty, or forty years, are twenty, thirty, yea, a hundred times richer than they were when they first entered the society. And it is an observation which admits of few exceptions, that nine in ten of these decreased in grace, in the same proportion as they increased in wealth. Indeed, according to the natural tendency of riches, we cannot expect it to be otherwise.
17. But how astonishing a thing is this! How can we understand it Does it not seem (and yet this cannot be) that Christianity, true scriptural Christianity, has a tendency, in process of time, to undermine and destroy itself For wherever true Christianity spreads, it must cause diligence and frugality, which), in the natural course of things, must beget riches! and riches naturally beget pride, love of the world, and every temper that is destructive of Christianity. Now, if there be no way to prevent this, Christianity is inconsistent with itself, and, of consequence, cannot stand, cannot continue long among any people; since, wherever it generally prevails, it saps its own foundation.
18. But is there no way to prevent this -- to continue Christianity among a people Allowing that diligence and frugality must produce riches, is there no means to hinder riches from destroying the religion of those that possess them I can see only one possible way; find out another who can. Do you gain all you can, and save all you can Then you must, in the nature of things, grow rich. Then if you have any desire to escape the damnation of hell, give all you can; otherwise I can have no more hope of your salvation, than of that of Judas Iscariot.
19. I call God to record upon my soul, that I advise no more than I practise. I do, blessed be God, gain, and save, and give all I can. And so, I trust in God, I shall do, while the breath of God is in my nostrils. But what then I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Jesus my Lord! Still,
I give up every plea beside, -- Lord, I am damn'd! but thou hast died!
Dublin, July 2, 1789.
Edited by George Lyons with corrections by Ryan Danker for the Wesley Center for Applied Theology of Northwest Nazarene University (Nampa, ID).
Copyright 1999 by the Wesley Center for Applied Theology. Text may be freely used for personal or scholarly purposes or mirrored on other web sites, provided this notice is left intact. Any use of this material for commercial purposes of any kind is strictly forbidden without the express permission of the Wesley Center at Northwest Nazarene University, Nampa, ID 83686. Contact webmaster for permission.
Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Revelation of the Man of Lawlessness and the Great Falling Away:
2 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the [a]coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a [c]message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the [d]apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
Matthew 24: Signs of the End of the Age, A Great Falling Away:
As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the [b]end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the [c]Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 8 But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
9 “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 [b]At that time many will [d]fall away and will [e]betray one another and hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. 12 Because lawlessness is increased, [f]most people’s love will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. 14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole [g]world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Last edited by Robert_White; 09/25/16.
Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven.
Mojo, as the starter of this thread, do you understand any distinction between "religion" as "religious organizations" and "religion" the religious beliefs and commitments of individuals (including those of like faith who bond in beliefs and worship)? If you do, kindly explain such understanding(s).
Looks like you didn't read the study.
Obviously, your vision is lousy - like your logic. The question/request was not about the study, it was with regard to the poster.
If you'd read the study you would know there was questions in it addressing exactly this question, pre-nullifying your question. If you wanted to address this question, you could of done so more effectively address the study, but that was not your intent. Per usual, you are just here to throw stones.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
America was never really a christian nation. Most identified as Christians, but really had no intention of actually following Christ. I am fine with a decline in church attendance.
Are you trying to point out the difference between religion and God? For example, religion is a creation of man, not God. Therefore you can still believe in God, but not be religious.
Umm,
No you can't.
Definition of religion:
:the belief in a god or in a group of gods
: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods
Furthermore, your claim that religion (and you're using the second, more specific, definition) is man made is demonstrably false.
One is a subset of the other and both are failing as evidenced by the research.
The false separation of 'religion' from 'believers' is a tactic invented by Christians to explain/excuse away the fact they have been losing (lost) the intellectual, scientific, moral, and cultural wars for a long time now. In this way, they can explain away unfavorable religious demographic shifts and lousy personal examples of Christianity as not representing the 'true faith'.
It's called the fallacy of equivocation and it is a bedrock of Christian apologetics. (Also falls under the example of 'No True Scot' fallacy)
What's interesting is WHY the cultural shift. While the survey touched on disgust with religion's treatment of of certain groups, it showed that the majority of UA was due to rejection of the teachings of religion. I'm curious as to why so many reject those teachings in today's world--especially as many were taught them from an early age, which is the best way to indoctrinate people.
It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...
Most people don't want to believe the truth~they want the truth to be what they believe.
Excerpt from Wesley's Sermon, 116, "The Causes of the Inefficacy of Christianity"
The Methodists grow more and more self-indulgent, because they grow rich. Although many of them are still deplorably poor; ("tell it not in Gath; publish it not in the streets of Askelon!") yet many others, in the space of twenty, thirty, or forty years, are twenty, thirty, yea, a hundred times richer than they were when they first entered the society. And it is an observation which admits of few exceptions, that nine in ten of these decreased in grace, in the same proportion as they increased in wealth. Indeed, according to the natural tendency of riches, we cannot expect it to be otherwise.
17. But how astonishing a thing is this! How can we understand it Does it not seem (and yet this cannot be) that Christianity, true scriptural Christianity, has a tendency, in process of time, to undermine and destroy itself For wherever true Christianity spreads, it must cause diligence and frugality, which), in the natural course of things, must beget riches! and riches naturally beget pride, love of the world, and every temper that is destructive of Christianity. Now, if there be no way to prevent this, Christianity is inconsistent with itself, and, of consequence, cannot stand, cannot continue long among any people; since, wherever it generally prevails, it saps its own foundation.
18. But is there no way to prevent this -- to continue Christianity among a people Allowing that diligence and frugality must produce riches, is there no means to hinder riches from destroying the religion of those that possess them I can see only one possible way; find out another who can. Do you gain all you can, and save all you can Then you must, in the nature of things, grow rich. Then if you have any desire to escape the damnation of hell, give all you can; otherwise I can have no more hope of your salvation, than of that of Judas Iscariot.
19. I call God to record upon my soul, that I advise no more than I practise. I do, blessed be God, gain, and save, and give all I can. And so, I trust in God, I shall do, while the breath of God is in my nostrils. But what then I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Jesus my Lord! Still,
I give up every plea beside, -- Lord, I am damn'd! but thou hast died!
Dublin, July 2, 1789.
Edited by George Lyons with corrections by Ryan Danker for the Wesley Center for Applied Theology of Northwest Nazarene University (Nampa, ID).
Copyright 1999 by the Wesley Center for Applied Theology. Text may be freely used for personal or scholarly purposes or mirrored on other web sites, provided this notice is left intact. Any use of this material for commercial purposes of any kind is strictly forbidden without the express permission of the Wesley Center at Northwest Nazarene University, Nampa, ID 83686. Contact webmaster for permission.
I'm afraid that and Mark 10 won't go over too well with many American Christians.....
It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...
Most people don't want to believe the truth~they want the truth to be what they believe.
