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#11460656 - 09/25/16 OCTOBER: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS"
RickBin Offline


Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 06/10/00
Posts: 9538
Loc: Los Angeles, California
Hi Folks:

I want to thank John Barsness for his latest exclusive article for the Campfire, SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS, which you can find on the homepage.

As usual, it is my pleasure, and I am proud that he is around.

Thanks John!

rb
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Rick Bin
24hourcampfire.com

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#11483929 - 10/06/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: RickBin]
elkhunternm Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 08/14/09
Posts: 26504
Loc: Mesquite,NM in Southern New Me...
Excellent article John.
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#11483932 - 10/06/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: elkhunternm]
hillbillybear Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 26030
Loc: Western NC
Very nice article.
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Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.

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#11483956 - 10/06/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: elkhunternm]
BobinNH Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 35900
Great article. Common sense at work.

For years I built 300 Win Mags, 7 Rem Mags,300 Weatherby's and (most recently) a 7mm Mashburn Super on "long" actions with H&H length boxes to accommodate better and more versatile bullet seating with long high BC bullets.....even before the current trend of high BC bullets.

Things just fit better when they have some leg room.

The short action business never made much sense to me. After a bunch of standard and WSM rifles, I am not enchanted with them.

John is , as usual, correct on bolt manipulation as well.
_________________________


The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.

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#11485597 - 10/06/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: RickBin]
DakotaDeer Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 18389
enjoyable read--thanks

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#11485986 - 10/06/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: DakotaDeer]
Hammerdown Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 10288
Loc: Northern California
Yep, nice read.
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#11486302 - 10/07/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: Hammerdown]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 41324
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
Thanks, guys!
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John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#11486349 - 10/07/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: RickBin]
Sakoluvr Online   content
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 01/08/05
Posts: 7917
Loc: Where the wild things are.
Great read and very informative. Thank you for sharing the article.

Was Sako one of the first companies that made a true short action for sporting arms? I thought I read someplace that Browning was using their short action before they they made their own.
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Peace be still! Don't ever forget who is in the boat with us.

After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
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#11486433 - 10/07/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: RickBin]
Steelhead Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 84919
Loc: Azerbaijan
Looks like Winchester was ahead of the curve with a 9 pound long action 22 Hornet.
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#11486454 - 10/07/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: RickBin]
super T Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 07/06/06
Posts: 1720
I always like reading John's stuff. Thanks Rick and John. BTW when I had my .257R built, I used a "short" Winchester action which allows me to seat bullets to 3"or so. I don't like "stuffing" cartridges in short actions either.

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#11486571 - 10/07/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: Sakoluvr]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 41324
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
Sakoluvr,

Sako started making the L42 action during WWII, for a small 7mm hunting cartridge based on the 9mm Parabellum, which after the war became the L46 and, eventually, L461 actions. But those were for really small rounds like the .222 Remington.

Sako's early rifles chambered for big game cartridges were built on FN Mauser actions in the 1950's. Eventually they started making their own short action for cartridges like the .243 and .308, but it was a number of years after Remington introduced the 722.
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John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#11486845 - 10/07/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: RickBin]
Sakoluvr Online   content
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 01/08/05
Posts: 7917
Loc: Where the wild things are.
Good deal. Thanks again John.
_________________________
Peace be still! Don't ever forget who is in the boat with us.

After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
Italian Proverb


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#11488194 - 10/07/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: RickBin]
John_Boy Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 02/10/09
Posts: 5967
Loc: Henderson, Texas
From one John to another, it was a great article. However, I've solved my long action / short action dilemma. 1885 high, or low wall, Ruger No.1 and yes even an Encore, or two.
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Acts 5:42 "And everyday, in the church and from house to house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ."

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#11488304 - 10/08/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: RickBin]
troutslayer Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 891
Loc: Montana
So is a Model 700 30-06 considered a short action then for McMillan Stock purposes?

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#11489088 - 10/08/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: John_Boy]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 41324
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
John Boy,

Yeah, single-shots solve a lot of magazine-length problems--the reason I have a Ruger No. 1 .22 Hornet and Merkel K1 .308 Winchester, among others....
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John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#11489386 - 10/08/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: RickBin]
John_Boy Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 02/10/09
Posts: 5967
Loc: Henderson, Texas
A Merkel is on the list. While Mausers are a favorite, there's nothing quite like a single shot, be it a. 22 rimfire, or something chambered in an old British round.
_________________________
Acts 5:42 "And everyday, in the church and from house to house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ."

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#11489481 - 10/08/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: RickBin]
N2TRKYS Offline
Member

Registered: 11/22/15
Posts: 190
Loc: Alabama
What do you think the percentage is of game that's killed well within the confines of the benefits of higher BC bullets?

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#11489490 - 10/08/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: N2TRKYS]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 41324
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
That would depend at least partly on exactly what you're trying to ask. Do you mean at ranges shorter than higher BC bullets have an advantage, or where higher BC have an advantage? "Within the confines" could mean either.

In either case, it would depend on the game, terrain, typical conditions, capabilities of the shooter, etc.
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#11489606 - 10/08/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: RickBin]
N2TRKYS Offline
Member

Registered: 11/22/15
Posts: 190
Loc: Alabama
At ranges before a BC advantage. I've seen it written that most game is taken within 200 yards. I don't know if that's a regional thing or nation wide.

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#11489620 - 10/08/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: N2TRKYS]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 41324
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
I would say it's a world-wide thing. My big game hunting notes from the past 40 years are from more than a dozen countries, and include not just the animals I've taken but those of companions. A few years ago I broke down the ranges where animals had been taken, and right around 90% were at 200 yards or less. I need to include the last few years sometime, but doubt that figure would change significantly.
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John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#11489665 - 10/08/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: Mule Deer]
SU35 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 12671
Late to understand what Ruger was doing, I just bought a Ruger 77 Hawkeye Compact Magnum in 338 RCM.

It has a 13" LOP and 20" barrel. It fits and swings naturally.

To say that I love it is an understatement!

It fits a niche for sure as a woods/stalking rifle.

The RCM cartridge and the overall length of the rifle make a great combo for woods hunting and I am sure that can be stretched out to moderate distances.

I don't need a high BC bullet and can't see any reason to compare it to 338 win mag velocity.
So what if it doesn't match the 338 WM.
This combo carries itself and speaks for itself as is.

To bad Ruger discontinued it. I am thinking of getting the 300 RCM in a No 1....or another 77.

I'm getting back into open sights for big game hunting and this rifle is a good fit.

http://www.realguns.com/archives/168.htm







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#11489672 - 10/08/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: SU35]
BobinNH Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 35900
The 338 RCM was one of the neatest Ruger rifles ever. Perfect bolt rifle for the woods.
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The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.

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#11489679 - 10/08/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: BobinNH]
SU35 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 12671
Yeah, Bob, I'm thrilled to have connected to one in a classic wood/blue.

I expect great things from it and I wouldn't hesitate to take to Alaska.

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#11489711 - 10/08/16 Re: NEW: Ask John Barsness Questions About "SHORT AND LONG ACTIONS" [Re: SU35]
BobinNH Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 35900
If I lived where I needed that kind of horsepower and bullet weight I'd own one. smile

Alaska,BC, Alberta comes to mind. Everything from moose to whitetails and bears. I thought the rifle was very cool, well designed and well thought out.

Makes me wish I still had my 200-225 gr grin Bitterroots!
_________________________


The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.

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