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"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."

Matthew 6:11

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Originally Posted by liliysdad
"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."

Matthew 6:11


You cannot combat my logic, so you return with threats.

Such a good loving christian you are....


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by BRISTECD
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by BRISTECD
The word religion or religious is mentioned only 7 times in he King James bible. In most instances, it was in a derogatory manner. Jesus wasn't looking for religious people, he was looking for sinners in need of salvation. Muslims are religious, buddists are religious, mormons are religious....in fact, there are over 20,000 different religions in the world. But there is only ONE way to get into heaven and you CAN'T earn it....it is a free gift that you either accept or reject. Most people are trying to be "good enough", hoping their good deeds outweigh the bad, but it doesn't work like that. All our good deeds are like filthy rags before a holy God. God sent his son, Jesus Christ, to die for the sins of the world. Belief in Christ as a person is not how you get saved, even the devils believe. Uou must accept that you are a sinner, cannot save yourself, that Christ died for you, arose from the grave. He gave his life in your place because you had no way to get to heaven on your own. Allah had no son and is a false god at best.


Vicarious redemption.

You were bad, so let's murder an innocent......yea....that doesn't really make any sense......


You are right, it does not make sense. But God said " without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sins". God also said his ways are hgher than your ways and beyond finding out, so I expect we'll just have to believe he knows best how to forgive sins.


No.

I don't have to believe anything without sufficient reason, and there is no sufficient reason to believe the all powerful, all knowing all kind creator of the universe could not forgive without the shedding of blood.

In addition, your assertion that his ways are beyond finding out is an assertion without evidence, that can be dismissed without evidence.


Oh, you are right again. You don't have to believe anything you don't want to. But just so you know, one day you WILL confess with your own tongue that Jesus Christ is Lord, as will we all.

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Originally Posted by BRISTECD
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by BRISTECD
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by BRISTECD
The word religion or religious is mentioned only 7 times in he King James bible. In most instances, it was in a derogatory manner. Jesus wasn't looking for religious people, he was looking for sinners in need of salvation. Muslims are religious, buddists are religious, mormons are religious....in fact, there are over 20,000 different religions in the world. But there is only ONE way to get into heaven and you CAN'T earn it....it is a free gift that you either accept or reject. Most people are trying to be "good enough", hoping their good deeds outweigh the bad, but it doesn't work like that. All our good deeds are like filthy rags before a holy God. God sent his son, Jesus Christ, to die for the sins of the world. Belief in Christ as a person is not how you get saved, even the devils believe. Uou must accept that you are a sinner, cannot save yourself, that Christ died for you, arose from the grave. He gave his life in your place because you had no way to get to heaven on your own. Allah had no son and is a false god at best.


Vicarious redemption.

You were bad, so let's murder an innocent......yea....that doesn't really make any sense......


You are right, it does not make sense. But God said " without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sins". God also said his ways are hgher than your ways and beyond finding out, so I expect we'll just have to believe he knows best how to forgive sins.


No.

I don't have to believe anything without sufficient reason, and there is no sufficient reason to believe the all powerful, all knowing all kind creator of the universe could not forgive without the shedding of blood.

In addition, your assertion that his ways are beyond finding out is an assertion without evidence, that can be dismissed without evidence.


Oh, you are right again. You don't have to believe anything you don't want to. But just so you know, one day you WILL confess with your own tongue that Jesus Christ is Lord, as will we all.


Another loving Christian with his threats of Hell!!

You do realize, there are a thousand other religions saying the same about you?


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by liliysdad
"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."

Matthew 6:11


According to some interpretations of that passage,come Judgement Day ol' Antelope Sniper can expect God to motion for a dump truck and dump a whole load of sand at his feet, saying;"This is the testimony against you. Remember all the times you demanded evidence? Here's mine."

Actually, I hope ol' A.S. needs God at some point in his life. Lots of folks can't believe until they NEED to.


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Originally Posted by curdog4570
Originally Posted by liliysdad
"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."

Matthew 6:11


According to some interpretations of that passage,come Judgement Day ol' Antelope Sniper can expect God to motion for a dump truck and dump a whole load of sand at his feet, saying;"This is the testimony against you. Remember all the times you demanded evidence? Here's mine."

Actually, I hope ol' A.S. needs God at some point in his life. Lots of folks can't believe until they NEED to.


I cannot be judged by one who does not exist.

Maybe someday you will be lost in the woods and need to be rescued by Centaurs or Wood Elves, that doesn't mean either exists.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Didn't John Adams say something about the Constitution being suitable only for a moral and religious people? Seems like I remember something about that.

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Originally Posted by dodgefan
Didn't John Adams say something about the Constitution being suitable only for a moral and religious people? Seems like I remember something about that.


At a minimum, Adams was a Unitarian, if not a Deist like his good friend Thomas Jefferson.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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I have no idea what his beliefs were. I think the point is that he that he believed that religion (most likely Christianity) was beneficial to society.

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Originally Posted by dodgefan
I have no idea what his beliefs were. I think the point is that he that he believed that religion (most likely Christianity) was beneficial to society.


Yet according to the study at the start of this thread, more Americans now believe religion does more harm them good.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Well I don't know about you, but I'm guessing Mr. Adams had put a little more thought into it then the average American today.
He might of had just a touch more intellectual horsepower to work with than most also.
YMMV of course.

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Originally Posted by dodgefan
Well I don't know about you, but I'm guessing Mr. Adams had put a little more thought into it then the average American today.
He might of had just a touch more intellectual horsepower to work with than most also.
YMMV of course.


And the Modern American has the benefit of an additional 219 years of knowledge and progress.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by dodgefan
Didn't John Adams say something about the Constitution being suitable only for a moral and religious people? Seems like I remember something about that.


John Adams also signed the Treaty of Tripoli, which states "...the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."


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Originally Posted by liliysdad
I have no desire to engage in a theological debate on the internets....but suffice to say that one can know and accept Jesus Christ as your saviour without attending and participating in church....but if you have truly accepted him as your saviour, and adhere to his teachings, you won't want to.



Good post. It is very obvious that there are many atheists on here, and even though I don't agree with them, I respect their right to post their thoughts. But, because they have no relationship with the Lord, they have no idea how it is with those who do know our Lord. I hope they figure it out before it is too late.

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Originally Posted by Calvin
Originally Posted by RickyD
Originally Posted by Robert_White
Originally Posted by MojoHand
Originally Posted by Robert_White
http://wesley.nnu.edu/john-wesley/t...auses-of-the-inefficacy-of-christianity/

Excerpt from Wesley's Sermon, 116,
"The Causes of the Inefficacy of Christianity"


The Methodists grow more and more self-indulgent, because they grow rich. Although many of them are still deplorably poor; ("tell it not in Gath; publish it not in the streets of Askelon!") yet many others, in the space of twenty, thirty, or forty years, are twenty, thirty, yea, a hundred times richer than they were when they first entered the society. And it is an observation which admits of few exceptions, that nine in ten of these decreased in grace, in the same proportion as they increased in wealth. Indeed, according to the natural tendency of riches, we cannot expect it to be otherwise.

17. But how astonishing a thing is this! How can we understand it Does it not seem (and yet this cannot be) that Christianity, true scriptural Christianity, has a tendency, in process of time, to undermine and destroy itself For wherever true Christianity spreads, it must cause diligence and frugality, which), in the natural course of things, must beget riches! and riches naturally beget pride, love of the world, and every temper that is destructive of Christianity. Now, if there be no way to prevent this, Christianity is inconsistent with itself, and, of consequence, cannot stand, cannot continue long among any people; since, wherever it generally prevails, it saps its own foundation.

18. But is there no way to prevent this -- to continue Christianity among a people Allowing that diligence and frugality must produce riches, is there no means to hinder riches from destroying the religion of those that possess them I can see only one possible way; find out another who can. Do you gain all you can, and save all you can Then you must, in the nature of things, grow rich. Then if you have any desire to escape the damnation of hell, give all you can; otherwise I can have no more hope of your salvation, than of that of Judas Iscariot.

19. I call God to record upon my soul, that I advise no more than I practise. I do, blessed be God, gain, and save, and give all I can. And so, I trust in God, I shall do, while the breath of God is in my nostrils. But what then I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Jesus my Lord! Still,

I give up every plea beside, -- Lord, I am damn'd! but thou hast died!

Dublin, July 2, 1789.

Edited by George Lyons with corrections by Ryan Danker for the Wesley Center for Applied Theology of Northwest Nazarene University (Nampa, ID).

Copyright 1999 by the Wesley Center for Applied Theology. Text may be freely used for personal or scholarly purposes or mirrored on other web sites, provided this notice is left intact. Any use of this material for commercial purposes of any kind is strictly forbidden without the express permission of the Wesley Center at Northwest Nazarene University, Nampa, ID 83686. Contact webmaster for permission.


I'm afraid that and Mark 10 won't go over too well with many American Christians.....


I think Wesley was right in his observation. Great wealth and ease tend to destroy Christians from the inside. Manifested grace decreases in proportion as wealth increases.

But the persecuted Church in China is exploding in growth:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...st-Christian-nation-within-15-years.html


China on course to become 'world's most Christian nation' within 15 years
The number of Christians in Communist China is growing so steadily that it by 2030 it could have more churchgoers than America
China will kill them by the tens or hundreds of millions before they let that happen. So will Hillary.


No, China will not kill them all.
As soon as Hillary is POTUS and Obama runs the UN every country will turn on Christians. Even America. We see that now already. Open your eyes.


We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?

Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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The people at the grass roots level were overwhelmingly Protestant Christian. And revived and alive in their faith via Whitfield and the Great Awakening.

Mass had a state religion until 1830 or so.

John Adams read the bible daily and exhorted his children to do the same. His cousin Sam was an orthodox Protestant, through and through as was Patrick Henry and George Washington and the sons of the Scot Covenanters that filled the ranks of his army.

The Laws of Nature and Nature's God is the opening salvo in Jefferson's defense of the American secession, and this phrase is precisely defined by Blackstone and Locke in their writings; that Jefferson openly admitted he was guided by.

Our entire law system was framed by "The laws of nature and nature's God," every inch and ounce of it. And Blackstone more than any other precisely defines it in his commentary on English law; and it is the eternal moral law of God revealed in scripture and natural law, ie., God's moral law revealed in nature and written into human conscience even before the revelation of the law of Moses.

Stop telling lies about America's founding generation; it makes you look desperate and small minded and vindictive. Just face open honest facts of the case and deal with it.


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http://lonang.com/commentaries/conlaw/organizing/laws-of-nature-and-natures-god/

THE LINK TO ENGLISH COMMON LAW

The supremacy of God’s law was generally recognized in the English common law. Sir William Blackstone, the preeminent English legal authority widely followed by the American founders, recognized the binding legal nature of the law of God as understood in its basic principles. Blackstone maintained that English law (and therefore, American law) had its roots in the laws of God.

Blackstone recognized that “law, in its most general and comprehensive sense, signifies a rule of action.” He identified the essential legal relationship that exists between God and his creation by observing, “Man, considered as a creature, must necessarily be subject to the laws of his Creator, for he is entirely a dependent being.”20 God was acknowledged as the lawgiver and therefore the one who laid down certain immutable rules of action, that is, of right and wrong conduct.

Recognizing the relevance of the creation and the Bible, Blackstone noted that “[u]pon these two foundations, the law of nature and the law of revelation, depend all human laws; that is to say, no human laws should be suffered to contradict these.”21 In other words, the law of God whether written in God’s creation (nature) or in the Bible (revelation), spoke with a unified voice. Moreover, this law is absolute: any law of man to the contrary is of no effect.

Various individuals, peoples, and governments have interpreted God’s laws differently at different times.22 The framers of the American system of government, however, were in one accord in “presuppos[ing] the existence of a God, the moral ruler of the universe, and a rule of right and wrong, of just and unjust, binding upon man, preceding all institutions of human society and government.”23 In other words, the framers recognized that God laid down rules that governed the universe and nations and that these laws could be sufficiently understood because they are communicated by a God who wants people to know them.24 They presupposed a God who is not silent.

President John Quincy Adams, writing in 1839, looked back at the founding period and recognized the true meaning of the Declaration’s reliance on the “Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God.” He observed that the American people’s “charter was the Declaration of Independence. Their rights, the natural rights of mankind. Their government, such as should be instituted by the people, under the solemn mutual pledges of perpetual union, founded on the self-evident truths proclaimed in the Declaration.”25


Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven.
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http://oll2.libertyfund.org/pages/blackstone-introduction-to-the-laws-of-england

Blackstone:

Upon these two foundations, the law of nature and the law of revelation, depend all human laws; that is to say, no human laws should be suffered to contradict these. There are, it is true, a great number of indifferent points in which both the divine law and the natural leave a man at his own liberty, but which are found necessary, for the benefit of society, to be restrained within certain limits. And herein it is that human laws have their greatest force and efficacy; for, with regard to such points as are not indifferent, human laws are only declaratory of, and act in subordination to, the former. To instance in the case of murder: this is expressly forbidden by the divine, and demonstrably by the natural law; and, from these prohibitions, arises the true unlawfulness of this crime. Those human laws that annex a punishment to it do not at all increase its moral guilt


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"Our legal system is in no way brought to us by the religion that brought us the Inquisition."

The Protestant Huguenots fled to the new world in huge numbers after the St Bartholowmew's Day Massacre, where 70 thousand Protestants were murdered in one day in Paris and more all over France. The river was choked with bodies and the wolves came down to eat them.

School children used to be quite familiar with our Protestant roots and how the persecuted Protestant Christians founded a nation out of a wilderness for the un-coerced free expression of the Christian Faith.

Have you never read Alexis de Toqueville?

Upon my arrival in the United States the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more I perceived the great political consequences resulting from this new state of things.
In France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom marching in opposite directions. But in America I found they were intimately united and that they reigned in common over the same country.

Religion in America...must be regarded as the foremost of the political institutions of that country; for if it does not impart a taste for freedom, it facilitates the use of it. Indeed, it is in this same point of view that the inhabitants of the United States themselves look upon religious belief.

I do not know whether all Americans have a sincere faith in their religion -- for who can search the human heart? But I am certain that they hold it to be indispensable to the maintenance of republican institutions. This opinion is not peculiar to a class of citizens or a party, but it belongs to the whole nation and to every rank of society.

In the United States, the sovereign authority is religious...there is no country in the world where the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America, and there can be no greater proof of its utility and of its conformity to human nature than that its influence is powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth.

In the United States, the influence of religion is not confined to the manners, but it extends to the intelligence of the people...

Christianity, therefore, reigns without obstacle, by universal consent...

I sought for the key to the greatness and genius of America in her harbors...; in her fertile fields and boundless forests; in her rich mines and vast world commerce; in her public school system and institutions of learning. I sought for it in her democratic Congress and in her matchless Constitution.

Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits flame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power.

America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.

The safeguard of morality is religion, and morality is the best security of law as well as the surest pledge of freedom.

The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other

Christianity is the companion of liberty in all its conflicts -- the cradle of its infancy, and the divine source of its claims


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I'm a firm believer that these religious postings are made by dickheads just to see their name in print because folks jump on 'em like Garrett on snuff!!


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