Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing Is my set back M96 Swede a door stop now?

Maybe I should have taken up base jumping in a bat suit. My reloading log book from 25 years ago actually says, "Had to hammer open the bolt, but I think I can go a little more."

I settled on a too hot load of 140 grain Sierra BTs in my 6.5x55. My three sons and I took a number of deer with it. I always whined about short case life. I was getting incipient cracks after one or two firings. I put the rifle away for years as a "problem gun".

Thankfully, nobody got hurt.

I've recently pulled her out of storage to do a make over. The bolt easily closes on a Forster No-Go gauge. I have a 6.5x55 field gauge on the way from Brownell's.

Here's the question. I am sending another M98 project to Blanchard's to get annealed and subsequently re-treated. They only charge an additional $25 for each additional action in the job.

Can I save this Swede by re-lapping the lugs, re-treatment, and barrel setback? Or is it a wall hanger now?

44 hunter 45: you need a specialized machinist to cleanup the locking recesses as I don't think bolt lappng is enough to take the "recesses" or pounded in areas in the locking recesses. I had a friend do this with a 1903 Springfield and I only shoot mild cast loads in it now. Good luck with it, Mel

My 308 will take a no go plus several thousandths. Using LC brass I have neck sized until they bump the shounder then fl resized enough to easily close the bolt. I get good case life and the only problem I have had was the separated case that caused me to find the problem.

Excessive headspace is really no problem if you handload. The rifle may have had excess headspace from day one and that could explain short case life.

To a point. Note that the more of a case that isn't fully supported by the chamber wall the more you are depending on the brass to contain the pressure. Excess headspace is never a good thing no matter what hand loading tricks we employ.

If I had a Swede that developed excess headspace I would inspect the lugs carefully and the lug seats equally so, and replace as necessary or clean them up and have the whole works re-heat treated. Why take chances with your safety just for the sake of shooting a dodgy old army rifle? I also would take hard look at the loads I was shooting that caused the setback to happen.

Excessive headspace becomes a dangerous problem when the thin walls of the brass case are not supported by the chamber. Might be wise to get some good measurements. Be careful!

Edit Opps goaanh beat me to it.

There you go, that's what I'm talking about. The loads were WAY over the top. I remember being ticked at the time because I couldn't re chamber to 6.5 Rem Mag. Now I'm more interested in the Model 660 than the cartridge.

There is a saying about God looking out for children and idiots. Both in this case.

To answer the suggestion that you can fix headspace by turning your sizing die back a bit, I was doing that. However, I just prepped 500+ rounds of brass from this rifle. More than 10% failed the bent wire test for incipient separation. Most were fired one or two times.

Since a second action is a bargain at Blanchard's, I'm gonna do it. Even if it means this rifle lives on 2300 FPS all the rest of her days.

Funny you mention a 660, that what my 308 is. In a Brown Precision stock it is my most lethal rifle. Not my favotite, most accurate, or largest chambering. For some reason, when I shoot the thing, chitt dies.

Hot loads or not, we don't know if your headspace condition was caused by shooting or if it existed from the start. The evidence does seem to suggest that it has, indeed, set back. In my view, once this has occurred, you have exceed the limits of the steel and potential failure becomes more likely. For this reason, if there really is evidence of set-back, I am somewhat reluctant to keep using an action.
Bottom line? pull the barrel and see if it has actually set back. If so, doorstop. If not, set the barrel back a few thou, reduce loads to a sane level, and live happily ever after. GD

Since the biggest weakness of the pre-1898 style SR military Mausers is their gas handling, they are among the actions that I'd least like to have a case separation with.

In a bow to safety, I think that if I was in your shoes I'd opt for a $330 Howa 1500 from Whittaker's in lieu of a putting more $$ into a potential money pit.

Not to ruffle anyone's feathers, but some of this sounds like you could make a poor man's AI improved by blowing back the head space and then readjusting the sizing die. That's got to increase case capacity too. I'm just never comfortable with excessive head space, especially if it has set back the bolt and/or the receiver. Time for a new rifle.

I can not remember the specific numbers, but when first working up my 6.5 x 55 with a ladder run (0.2 grain increments. I only made it about half way from the low to high end loads suggested for the 96's. Started getting pressure signs. It is a nail driver, however, and could be it was made with a worn reamer. Haven't done a chrony run yet, so velocities might give me a little more evidence on what the real story might.

A lot of good information here. I agree with Mel regarding work needed. But in the end after all the work is complete including re-heat-treating, the rifle still has gas handling issues.

Hot gas to a face and eye is much more costly than a modern rifle with gas handling capabilities and a steel that is much stronger than what this rifle likely has.

New info. I got my Forster field gauge yesterday and the bolt closes over it easily. Busy this weekend, but next weekend the barrel is coming off for a look-see at the lockup.

I do not think that Kuhnhausen's book is the bible, but it's interesting and sometimes useful. On page 69 he states that M91-M96 receivers are not candidates for re-headspacing. (I do not agree.) and that M98s with receiver lug wear or indentations greater that .002" are not candidates for re-headspacing. This, he says, is due to damage to the carburization layer (case hardening).
Two pages later he describes using Blanchard's Metals Processing to have actions re-treated. So which is it, Mr Kuhnhausen?

I was already intending to send this action to Blanchard's so my plan hasn't changed at all. I will anneal it to relieve any residual stress, clean it up and get the heat treatment re-done. Then I will re-headspace it tight and put it on a mild diet for the rest of eternity. In a perfect world, it would no longer chamber store bought ammo, but only my light loads made on cranked-down FL resize.

You'll probably have to shave the die or the case holder to get that.

Easy enough

The sensible solution. By the time you re-cut the lug recesses, lap them, have the action heat treated, set the barrel back a thread, face the barrel and chamber to depth you're easily going to be into $200 in machine work and you'll still have a sloppy military barrel and clunky military action.

Last time I checked,Brownells carry an after market gas shroud for these rifles to take care of the gas handling

Good news, Bad news. No - Actually it's all good news. I got the barrel pulled off my Swede. It is not set back. It appears I opened up the headspace by getting too aggressive lapping in my lugs. The locking surfaces have no evidence of dimples or divots.
I am going to finish this project as planned. The money is spend, just as well go forward.
I taught myself to repair and build guitars by rebuilding clunkers that would never be worth the amount of labor I put into them. They were expendable. I learned that if you can fix a crappy guitar, fixing a good one is child's play. I also have a rack full of valueless guitars that play REALLY well.
This project is akin to that.
THe Ed Lapour 3 position safety replaces the shroud with a gas deflecting shroud.

http://edlapourgunsmithing.com/3-position-safeties/mauser-96/

He only makes small batches of these, so you have to be on his list.

Recently, I pulled the barrel from an original military 1909 Argentine that showed ample setback.

I happened to be headed to visit D'Arcy and we set the action up in the mill and measured .007" of actual setback.

According to Tom Burgess (via D'Arcy) corrected lug setback can "spring back" during re-carburizing if the action is not first annealed. Pre-annealing helps prevent warpage and I was planning to do some machine work on the action anyway so this was a non-issue. The action went to Blanchards for annealing and the lug seats were re-machined to remove the setback, along with some other operations to true some surfaces and convert the action to feed .35 Whelen.
I have a bit more work to do on the action but it has been hardened and is almost ready to fit & chamber. Not relevant to your M96 but perhaps useful for others since we're on the topic of setback.