Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Bolt action carbines for social work....??

Just curious on others choices, other than AR's -

Thinking some of the short bolts with 20" bbls or less in 308 or perhaps a common 243, might be effective, especially with a DBM and low powered optic, or good irons.

Ruger scout comes to mind, but curious about others.

It sure seems like a long gun has a big upper hand when one has a choice or opportunity.

Pros/Cons vs the common AR? I know a few come to mind, but curious on others thoughts.

This looks like a good one for you.
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/11462608/Re:_FS:_Howa_Lightning_LTWT_.2#Post11462608

That's part of what my howa, mini is for. I like the idea

A feller that is willing to practice whipping the bolt fast (and correctly, fom the shoulder) could make things pretty interesting for his opponents.

Brian Pearce has for a good while advocated levergun carbines for such work, especially for those who live or travel where handguns or semi rifles are restricted. There are accessory rails and such for those interested in that kind of thing.

As much as I absolutely love a short barreled .308 bolt action for a general purpose/all around rifle (hunting), when it comes to social work, they are not a good answer.

This has been tested, re-tested, and tested some more by various units.

A short semi auto like a 16" SR-25 E2 is just simply too practical. 20 round box mags, fast rates of fire, 1 MOA accuracy, collapsible/adjustable stock, optics friendly, etc, etc.

There is simply no match between a bolt action and a semi auto in real world conditions. That is coming from a guy who has carried both, and is a bolt gun fan. The semi auto has a very clear advantage.

Kelly thanks - that is a handy 243, had one in 7/08 in the past.

MJ, that new 6.5 Grendel would be a low recoil ie fast recovery option, and should be about as effective as the Mini 308 Rusky round....and reach out when needed. I had thought of those for other purposes in the past, very close to a BR.

Re: Levers, I kick myself selling my old Marlin 357, light bark and bite but spit 158s a 2050, not sure what a lighter 110-140 would have done.

Mackay, I am listening, so the "performance" is apparently easily tips to the Semi platform. In that case, for closer range work, would one be best to use a 223 16" ?

How do the 223 and 308 compare with common ammo, on various barriers? Anyone? Thanks. I am speaking to say under 200 yds.

While on long guns, what shotguns do you guys like? Thinking an 870 in 20 or 12G, with a 21-26" - or similar semi.

I agree with Mackay's post but it doesn't mean a bolt action is bad to have along.

If/when the SHTF, I have an AR in .223/5.56 and another in .300BLK. For most social survival situations I would probably prefer the .223/5.56 as ammo would be more common. For suppressed activities the .300BLK would be my choice. An Aero .308 lower and upper pair sit in my safe waiting to be built. It, too, will have its place.

As will my Ruger Scout in .308 with its 16.1” barrel. It is lightweight, handy, accurate and more considerably more powerful than a .223/5.56. With the ghost ring sights I can easily hit clay pigeons at 200 yards, no batteries or scope required. A forward mounted scope (leaving the ghost ring in place) makes hitting 600 yard targets pretty easy. The .308 AR could do all that except for the weight and handiness.

If the purpose is to defend myself and family against others armed with semi-auto handguns or rifles, I’d want a semi-auto as well, rifle AND handgun - but chances are I’d be screwed anyway. In my semi-rural situation a more likely situation is the need for putting meat on the table, which might mean rather long hikes. For that I’d prefer the lightweight and handier .308 Scout backed up by a high-cap semi-auto handgun.

I would use what I have already.
Ruger Hawkeye RSI S.S. 30-06
with a Leupold FX-II 3x20 with Heavy Duplex
replaced factory brass bead front sight
with NECG 3/32 IVORY BEAD for OLD EYES!
AMRA

The old yellow boy by original Henry was about as good as it gets for what you're wanting. Maybe a center fire upgrade would be nice though.

Suggestion - live where you don't need to worry about social issues.

In a survival situation, give me an accurate .22 rimfire rifle. I can carry about three times the number of rounds in a backpack as I can .223's of the same weight. Don't even mention .308's or .30-06's in that regard. And since 99.9% of my shooting will be to put edible game in my stomach, the .22 shines over any centerfire factory/arsenal/hot handloaded cartridge, even allowing for plinking a whitetail in the head. The other .1%? If evading/hiding doesn't cut it, then a shot to the face and run like hell. If there's multiple adversaries, and they're armed, the chances of surviving the encounter go down and it wouldn't matter much what I was carrying at that point.

I stand more of a risk from expiring without my heart meds, or contracting a fever/disease or sustaining a life threatening injury in an extended survival situation than anything else probably- I won't worry too much about how well I'm armed.

(That's not to say there isn't a dandy AR-15 .223 and a sh*tload of ammo resting peacefully in my closet... -for non-survival serious social encounters. )

If an AR-15 and its obvious tactical value is out of question, I would be intrigued more by a pump rifle than a bolt. I started out as a kid shooting jack rabbits with a pump Remington .22lr, and learned that they can be quite quick and more than acceptably accurate. One downside is that they are not really short, due to the length of the receiver.

Another carbine choice that's not a bolt action or AR is the SKS. The antis will get around to it sooner or later but for now, as far as I know, it doesn't meet most of their check marks. It's not black, and in original form has a non detachable magazine limited to 10 shots. It's still comparatively inexpensive and for it's purpose it's accurate, enough, tough and ammo is plentiful and cheap.

I've been taking mine to the range lately. Granted there's a whole lot better pistol shots out there than me but IME the SKS is much more effective than a handgun at delivering fast, accurate, powerful shots past 25 yards and is faster for followup shots than a bolt action carbine. I can usually put a bullet somewhere on a human silhouette target with it most of the time using factory open sights and cheap ammo out to 200 yards.

Who was it who said "Use a pistol to fight your way to a shotgun, and use a shotgun to fight your way to any old rifle"?

Yup, heading for the hills ain't all it's cracked up to be, especially for old folks and families.

I inadvertantly made a good move regarding surviving a collapse when I moved up here to the country. We're far enough from the city to be fairly safe from looters and rioters, but have enough folks around for mutual support and security.

If things start to go South, I'm gonna take the plug outa my A5 and hunker down.

Terms like "social work" and "survival situation" aren't very precise. I'd hate to use them to define the most useful tools for the job.

Good stuff guys.

Mesabi, The terms can be mutually exclusive, or not, depending

So, like when you have to do survival work in a social situation?

Seems like anti-social work would be a better description

I don't see where a bolt gun has the upper hand, in fact I can't think of anything it does better. A good military style auto loader is just as accurate as a bolt gun, and having 20 or 30 rounds in a detachable magazine is a huge advantage, not to mention quick follow up shots.

Now if we're talking survival situations, IMHO the #1 key to survival is not bringing attention to yourself. This means avoiding armed conflict as much as possible, and not bringing attention to yourself when you need to make a shot. Whether that be defending yourself and family or downing game. And for that, there is much to be said for a suppressed 22rf, 9mm, 300bo or a 45 caliber shooting a 300 gr or heavier bullet subsonic. Also much to be said for bows and crossbows.

From a purely technical standpoint, using something other than a black rifle for that kind of thing only makes sense if using a black rifle is illegal.

But there's a lot more to it, starting with skill. A good shooter who stays calm under stress is a far tougher opponent than a skittish chump with a tricked out M-4. Unfortunately, most people who own black rifles spend more time hanging useless [bleep] off of them than they do on actually learning to use them well under stress.

Then there's the PR side of it. Having a lever, pump, or bolt gun makes you look like Elmer Fudd instead of a militiaman, so you win most of those battles before they start.

Fortunately, the people who are afraid of guns never think about skill, so it's still OK to train.


Okie John