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beretzs what kind of 308 do you have

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Originally Posted by 308ld
Originally Posted by Coyote_Hunter
Can't wait to get my 165g SSTs to the range for some water jug testing. If they don't come apart in the first jug or two I'll be more than a little surprised.



update?



Haven't had a chance to do anything with them. Full time job, 2-1/2 hour daily round trip commute, weekends busy finishing deck teardown/landscaping/rebuild project I started last year after my hip replacement. Next project is to replace cedar siding where the $#%&* flickers have poked 2" holes in it. Range time has been pretty limited.

Don't know if I'll get to water jug shooting this year, although I probably have 50 or more in the garage. Might get a chance to test .243/95g SST and .308/165g SST in jugs this weekend. I figure 2 jugs per load with a fresh paper or cardboard backdrop will tell me what I want to know. Pretty much expect the backdrops to have a lot of holes in them but maybe I'll be surprised.




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My wife & I are going to be in Montana late Oct for an elk hunt. I contacted Nosler & Hornady early this year about what bullet they recommended. They did not recommend the balistic nor the sst for elk. The accubond or the Interlock or the Interbond if you find them. The wife will be shooting a 7x57 AI with 150 TTSX & 51 gr of RL-19. Her backup & mine also will be a 30-06 with 150 Accubonds & 54 gr of RL-17. My go to is a 30-06 with 165 Accubonds & 61 gr of RL-22. COME ON October 29th!!!!!








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Look at 155 scenars,and varget. A lethal and accurate combo. I killed a big 6 point with it last year.He was laying on his side within 5 seconds of the shot.(200yds.) We have taken numerous big bucks with it as well including a 200 inch mule deer last fall. The bullets open up nicely,and leave a good exit on deer.

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It would kill an elk. But with that much time, it's worthwhile to find a better bullet that shoots well. I'm sure there is one, factory or handload. That's the beauty of the .308


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Originally Posted by Folically_Challenged
Originally Posted by Coyote_Hunter
Can't wait to get my 165g SSTs to the range for some water jug testing.


I'll be interested to see what you find. The 165 SST's were far and away the most accurate bullets in my previous '06, but I never found anything but fragments in the backstop. Maybe they're tougher than they were 10 years ago. Maybe 100 fps less from a .308 will stress them less. I'll be looking forward to your pics.

FC


"I never found anything but fragments in the backstop. Maybe they're tougher than they were 10 years ago"

Maybe. Shot a 165g from a .30-06 through a water jug today with a blank sheet of paper behind it. LOTS of holes from lead fragments. Found a piece of jacket stuck to the inside of the blown-apart jug.

We tested six loads at 20 yards. All loads were chrono'd except the Core-Lokt:

.243 Win, 95g Hornady SST, 2925fps (avg.)
.257 Roberts, 100g Barnes TTSX, 3233fps (avg.)
.30-06, 150g Winchester Ballistic Silvertip, 3005fps (avg.)
.30-06, 165g Hornady SST, 2863fps (actual)
.300 WM, 180g Winchester Power-Point, 2825fps (avg.)
.300 WM, 180g Remington Core-Lokt, 2700fps (factory spec)

The only 'clean' target was with the 100g TTSX. You could clearly see where the TTSX had expanded and left a 'three-leafed clover' hole, with a second hole where the fourth petal hit the target.

All of the lead core bullets had multiple hles in the paper target - lots of them. That said, the worst IMHO was the 165g SST target:

[Linked Image]

When I get time I'll post all the target photos in a separate thread.

.





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My hunting experience with Barnes is similar. I have recovered only two bullets from elk. Both of those were 100% intact and mushroomed.

Last edited by LostHighway; 09/24/16.
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SST's suck when shooting at anything other than paper...Or coyotes...


********


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My testing showed what I already knew - every cup-and-core bullet tested sprayed lead and/or jacket material. The 'non-retained' weight has to go somewhere.

For big game I haven't used a standard cup-and-core bullet in a bolt gun since the early 1980's. Speer Grand slams got the call for the 20 years following my first animal, followed by North Fork SS and FP, Nosler AccuBond and Barnes MRX and TTSX. The last few years I've been using Barnes TTSX (and the older MRX) more and more. They have been great performers both in accuracy and on game and I like the idea of 'lead-free' meat.

This year a future son-in-law and I will be using SST bullets for antelope simply because I worked up those loads first for target practice and haven't had time to work up AccuBond or TTSX loads for the rifles we will be using.

Hoping the SSTs don't destroy as much meat as the A-MAX a son-in-law used a few years back.


Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

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Deer hunter checking in.....

Sitting on my desk right now is a brand new box of Nosler Ballistic Tips, 165 grain 30 caliber. On one end of the box it says "Game Recommendations: Deer, Antelope" and for folks who can't read there is a picture of a mule deer.

So from that we can surmise that they are designed for deer and similar LIGHT big game. The SST is the functionally equivalent competitor. Both are as good as it gets for deer hunting based on my experiences and that of friends. They may have sucked back in the day but as far as I am concerned they sure don't suck now. I expect they would take out an elk, especially with a lung shot. But, that is not what they are DESIGNED for, although I think they are at least as good as the traditional core-lokts, power points, etc which people have used on everything for decades.

I would use a bullet designed for "controlled expansion", probably a partition if I ever get to go elk hunting, although if you like the SST, you could try the Hornady gilding metal bullet or Interbond that would probably shoot to the same point....check on range to be sure. Why try to fit a square peg in a round hole, especially when you are hunting something you don't get to all the time?



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Thanks for sharing the target pic.

When I tested 200gn .338 SSTs against a tough target of some dry magazines they turned to dust and small fragments of copper. With the magazines wet, they did ok. I guess I'd use them on deer, but no chance on elk. Too many excellent other bullets that I would have complete confidence in, to include excellent C&Cs like the HotCor or Ballistic Tip.

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Originally Posted by RJY66
... Why try to fit a square peg in a round hole, especially when you are hunting something you don't get to all the time?



While I would hope the BT has a thicker jacket than the SST, I do not know this to be the case. (Note to self: Check on this tonight.)

In any case, I’ve had bullets drop deer instantly when passing from ham to sternum (7mm North Fork SS) and passing front to back through the body with exit (.30 caliber Barnes MRX and TTSX). These same bullets have been equally effective on broadside shots. The only downside I see to these bullets is their extra cost when compared to C&C bullets.

I don’t see it as a ‘square peg, round hole’ situation. I see it as wanting to use a bullet that will expand in a controlled, limited and reliable manner, providing high weight retention and deep straight line penetration. For me, deer hunting is done in conjunction with elk hunting and the deer are more targets of opportunity to be ignored if taking one might interfere with getting an elk. As a result the same bullets get used for both. I have yet to find a bullet that works well for elk that fails for deer.




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Originally Posted by Coyote_Hunter
Originally Posted by RJY66
... Why try to fit a square peg in a round hole, especially when you are hunting something you don't get to all the time?



While I would hope the BT has a thicker jacket than the SST, I do not know this to be the case. (Note to self: Check on this tonight.)




The BT's have a heavier base than the SSTs starting about halfway back. I have not noticed much difference in performance between the two on deer as both have blown through every deer or hog I have shot. Absolutely great bullets for that application....Elk maybe not so much which was the point of the analogy.

Last edited by RJY66; 09/26/16.

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Elk aren't that hard to kill and the 180 gr SST would work just fine as long as you shoot them where they live and if you don't then another brand of bullet won't make a bit of difference. Premier bullets don't make up for poor shooting


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Originally Posted by bea175
Elk aren't that hard to kill and the 180 gr SST would work just fine as long as you shoot them where they live and if you don't then another brand of bullet won't make a bit of difference. Premier bullets don't make up for poor shooting


That premium bullets don't make up for poor shooting is something I am painfully aware of due to personal experience. (Lost my first big game animal, a cow elk, in 2014 after misjudging the wind.)

That doesn't mean that premium bullets are without benefit. The first big game animal I ever shot was a bull elk at about 110 yards using a 7mm RM and a 162g Hornady BTSP. The bullet hit a rib dead on center, missed or barely nicked the far ribs and came to rest under the hide on the off side. Retained weight was under 48%. Although the spike bull went down, I was not impressed with the bullet performance as I didn't think a single rib was much of a challenge to its integrity.

The next year I switched to 160g Speer Grand Slams and used them exclusively without complaint for 20+ years. The first bullet I recovered was from the end of that period, from a 5x5 bull elk. The bullet had passed through and destroyed both shoulder joints before coming to rest on the far side, still in bone but exposed. Retained weight was over 70%.

My philosophy is to shoot until the animal is down and stays that way. While one shot will usually do it, I have had elk get back up. After doing so I'v never had one come towards me. When that happens and all I have is a bad angle, I want a bullet in my rifle that will expand reliably but in a controlled and limited manner and drive the length of the animal to reach the vitals. Grand Slams have proven to be capable of doing that as have North Fork SS, Trophy Bonded and Barnes MRX and TTSX.

Equally important to me is that none of these bullets (GS, TB, MRX or TTSX) have in any way failed on smaller game or on broadsides. The last few years I and my group have used a lot of AccuBonds, too. While we haven't shot any animals lengthwise, the broadsides we've taken have all resulted in exits.

Another advantage of the premiums (or at least the good ones - there are some 'premiums' I refuse to use based on their design and manufacturers performance claims) is they can provide more consistent performance over a wider range of distances. That is also important to me because, while I practice out to 600 yards, I've had 25-foot shot opportunities where I expected a minimum of 400 yards. I don't want a bullet that will blow itself apart at high impact velocities.

That said, I will be using a 95g SST in my .243 Win for antelope this year. As I mentioned in a previous post, I hope it doesn't perform like the 165g AMAX my son-in-law used on an antelope a few years back.







Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.

A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Hunter
...
This year a future son-in-law and I will be using SST bullets for antelope simply because I worked up those loads first for target practice and haven't had time to work up AccuBond or TTSX loads for the rifles we will be using.

Hoping the SSTs don't destroy as much meat as the A-MAX a son-in-law used a few years back.


Correction (too late to edit the original post).

My future son-in-law will be using a .30-06 and 150g Ballistic Tip bullets for antelope this year, not an SST. Like the SST I'll be using in my .243, this will be the first year anyone in my group has used a BT.

Last edited by Coyote_Hunter; 09/26/16.

Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.

A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Nosler 150 gr BT on antelope you couldn't do any better


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I would go with the 165 interbond or the GMX. They both should load similarly to the SST. Might need to drop down a little with a GMX. I used a 185 gr GMX in my 338 win mag on elk. Couldn't find it to see the mushroom.

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Originally Posted by AMG08
I am planning an elk hunt for 2017. I plan to carry my 308 win rifle. I have a decent shootinget load that uses 165 gr hornady sst bullets. I know it isn't a bonded bullet, but is it sufficient? It's not a big deal to find and buy something else, but I'd figure I'd ask seeing how I have a lot of them on hand. If the sst isn't good enough, what else can you recommend?


I've only killed 6 or 7 elk, I'd switch to a 165 partition or accubond in a heartbeat provided accuracy is there, RL-15 is a good 308 powder.


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