Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Reloader 17 and storage effect on brass?

Nifty;
Thanks for the link sir!

Thanks to Denton as well, as always he's a grand fountain of knowledge.

The bullets, powder and cases are exactly as I recall the ones I wrote about looking like.

Very, very interesting stuff. I'll mark this one for further use no doubt.

Thanks again, all the best to you folks and good luck on any remaining hunts this fall.

Dwayne

Exactly!

The ammo in my case was loaded with RL-17 from 10/14 and 3/15. Powder was bought from Cabelas so it would be doubtful that it had been on the shelf for years. However, when the powder was actually produced by the Swiss powder maker is unknown.

So, the paper bags of old Hodgdon 4831 that we bought in 1968 at the NRA convention might be getting a little old in the tooth?

Dunno.

Lots of Internet forums posts regaling the magical keeping powers of that original war surplus powder.

The take-home message for me is that it is best to take powder stability to be a lot by lot issue.

I assumed it was gospel that powder stability was a known entity. Surprise the hell outta me when I found that it was not, particularly in my own inventory.

edit to add: Not saying it is any more than coincidental but I find it interesting that several reports of premature powder decay (presumably nitric acid off-gassing) are powders of European origins, e.g. Reloader and VV.

TAG!

Are you certain this isn't an issue with the brass? I had a similar issue with VV N140 that was ultimately traced to my brass. I had settled on a load of 41.2 grains of N140 behind a Sierra 140-grain BTSP that had chronographed an average velocity of 2735 feet/second. I turned around and loaded some NEW brass with that load in 1998 and promptly put those rounds away and shot up other loads and rifles. I pulled out the last 20 rounds of those N140-based loads last year for deer season. I experienced a misfire on one round and managed to shoot a nice 8-point with the next round. Postmortem examination of the ammunition showed a slight amount of verdigris around the primer on the dud round and one other round. I pulled the bullet and found slight, nearly imperceptible wrinkles in the case neck that had permitted moisture to enter the case and cause corrosion. (A very distinct line could be seen from this point on down into the case.) The dud round's case appeared intact, other than the primer being contaminated, while the other round had corroded enough to cause a small hole in the case at the neck. I saved the powder charge from the dud and reloaded the bullet, case, and charge with a fresh primer. I chronographed the round, along with the remaining rounds and still obtained a nearly average 2735 feet/second. I don't think the powder is a cause of contamination.

Interesting thread.

I've never had anything like this happen to me, but I'd never assume I will always be able to state such. I'll keep these events and experiences in mind from this day forward.

One thing that nags at me was the talk we were hearing some time back---maybe eight or ten years ago? Someone was suggesting modifying components in such a way as to limit shelf life...a means to control US, no doubt. Probably no connection, but still...

Jackie Treehorn,

Thanks for joining the conversation. Yesterday I started going through my stock of reloaded ammunition and I found two boxes of 250 Savage ammo that I had also loaded the same month back in 1999 as the bad lot of 30-30 ammo in the pictures, with the same lot of VV-140 powder.

They look just fine; not the slightest hint of any corrosion. These 250 Savage rounds are loaded in Winchester brass. I set them out to take to the range. I will shoot them up and put the first few through the chronograph to see if the performance has changed. If it has, that would put the finger on that lot of powder.

As you suggest, maybe it was something about those Federal cases. Or some how an interaction unique to those cases with that powder. Some questions remain unanswered.

I should also add that the cartridge I was shooting was a 7mm-08 and "re-chronographing" yielded an average velocity of 2763 feet/second. (The 2735 feet/second data was obtained from a 22-inch barrel and the 2763 feet/second data was obtained from a 24-inch barrel.)

Geez, that sucks right there! Never had a problem like those mentioned here, but, going to look at my older handloads just to be sure. Those pics are rather telling.

Follow-up report: Before I went to the range I pulled the bullet on one of the 250 Savage rounds loaded in 1999 with the suspect lot of VV-140 powder, but in Winchester cases.

There was not the slightest hint of corrosion inside of the case or on the base of the bullet. The powder looked perfect.
At the range the remaining rounds of both boxes performed perfectly and the velocities through the chronograph were within expectations.

These results suggest that my problems with the Federal 30-30 cases are more related to the cases then to that lot of powder.

As Denton reported, it is possible that moisture inside the case could cause corrosion like that, but I don't know how it could have happened. And the 30-30 rounds and these 250 Savage rounds have been stored together in the same conditions since 1999. The corrosion problem has never happened to me before and all my loading procedures have always been careful and consistent with normal results. I guess I am going to blame the problem on bad brass.