Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Are the new miniature red dot cut CCW pistols really game changers?

Will an ageing baby boomer population with deteriorating vision make guns like the G19 and G17 MOS popular in the midsized CCW market? I have not seen any police departments going to these pistols nor did I see any mention made of MOS when the Rangers and others adopted the G19, maybe this is just another gimmick like lasers on pistols? Are the red dots a plus on a CCW?

They could be helpful or they could be a crutch. They require practice and can break or not function.

For shots past 15-20 yards, red dots are typically a little faster and more precise. Under that distance, most skilled shooters will be a little to a lot faster with irons. I forgot the site but someone compared several shooter's times with both. This assumes a reciprocating red dot, IE one attached to the slide.

A non reciprocating red dot has the potential to be faster than irons both up close and far away because it's easier to track the dot through the recoil.

I doubt they'll change much in regards to ccw pistols with the exception of people with poor eyesight and people looking for an edge in low light.

I had not thought about them being on the slide vs mounted on the frame. Good point, thus for more precise shooting they may be the ticket, but really just another electronic device to break thinking about it in the long run when mounted on the slide.

Yeah, that's a good point. I never thought about that either.

I bet some of those sight could be destroyed over time by a high volume shooter.

I tried one mounted to the slide and as stated I was slow, slow, slow with it. But when ranges get to 20yds and beyond it really shined.

I have not tried a frame mounted version.




Clark

I need to add turrets, but you definitely what the see through mounts so you can still use the irons.

ROTFLMAO. Is that the official Minnysota carry piece that comes with a 7600 rifle?

Is this your own experience, or just something you've read?

Since I do use slide mounted red dots on a couple of my carry guns, what you wrote sounds like it comes from experience with light recoiling gamer guns, or just plain theory, not a G19 or 23 with carry ammo.

Also, guys like Deflave saying you tried a slide mounted red dot and found it slow - you probably tried a dovetail mount without any co-witnessed iron sights, right? Big difference with iron sights to line up; the dot is always there. Just a red dot sight alone, yeah they suck and are slow, especially if they're mounted high up off the slide.

One big advantage in red dots is for guys who follow the "focus on the front sight" mantra. With a red dot, you can focus on the target instead.

I had a red dot on my Ruger 22 and my Buckmark. What yondering said about co-witnessing irons makes sense. Just trying to find the dot alone takes some getting used to.

I still use the J Point on my Buckmark but I have to get used to it every time I pick it up.

have you talked to sparks about getting an iWb made for that rig

The pistol I used was an M&P CORE in .40 S&W and the irons co-witnessed.

I couldn't get fast with it.




Travis

Most people don't have much trouble with speed if the setup has co-witnessed irons, in my experience. It can be a mental thing though; start off just using the irons instead of hunting for the dot, the dot will just appear when you use the irons. After a bit of learning curve you won't have to look for the irons any more, but there is a learning curve.

A red dot without co-witnessed irons is terrible for me though, and turns a decent gun into a range-only toy; way too slow hunting for the dot in other shooting positions.

I ran one in one match for fun. The guys used to shooting irons were able to blast some arrays much faster than me. When it came to running and shooting I was faster than usual, and beat them in those particular arrays.

This one came to mind, we recreated this stage, the iron guys smoked me as I did some dot hunting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0etoSfS7zLE

I guess I will just buy a shotgun when I cannot see the irons anymore. Slower than normal up close, possibility of breaking when mounted to reciprocating slide...bleah..

Never heard of those MOS models so had to look them up.

I can't imagine a bigger hook waiting to grab and get hung up on every piece of clothing near by. It looks to be battery powered, so I guess it's left on 24/7 for 15 or 20 or 30 years until it's finally needed?

As far as a game changer, yeah, that's what I'd call it. They may be an advantage in combat games or letting presbyopics still shoot groups that impress the folks in the next booth at the range. I do like my Fastfire III for some purposes, but concealed carry isn't one of them.

Folks can get what they want but for a concealed carry pistol to be used in situations where fractions of a second could determine the outcome I'd go with smooth and sleek for an unencumbered draw and employ the KIS principle as much as possible.

When carrying a concealed handgun, I personally, most often carry one of my secondary handguns, and not one of my primary duty pistols. As large a mixed bag pistol I care to conceal as a matter of routine, is a G19, but this would be without suppressor height sights and an added RMR above the slide. Having all that extra stuff, and then going up to a full sized G17 duty pistol, is a bit over the top for my needs in a dedicated conceal carry handgun as a matter of routine.

With all that said, there are quite a number of Glock nuts who routinely proclaim that suppressor sights co-witnessed w/ an RMR to be a god send due to their loss of eye sight and inability to use traditional sights alone. In that case, all that extra stuff added to the pistol is mandatory in order for the operator to function.

In this context, something along the lines of a G19, tall sights, and RMR, may be the answer. Otherwise, proper traditional sights having a bold front post design and high contrast, against a subdued rear notch having ample light gap may be a better route, especially being the duties of a conceal pistol are likely to fall into the range of under 15 yards on the defense, and not over 15 yards on the offense.

Best:)

Man, looking at the pic above with the Glock and a Leopold Delta point, those iron sights would have to be really TALL to co-witness with that sight.

I will add, with my carbine and red dot, being it is shoulder fired with greater body contact and reference, the dot is easily found, even with the BUIS folded down. This is not the case with my pistol, as it becomes much easier to lose the dot vs the carbine. So with the pistol, using the tall fixed sights as a reference while driving out the pistol makes finding the dot easier. Inside 15 yards,however, it is not necessarily faster.

Not necessarily. If you use the rear sight that Leupold makes for the Deltapoint--which fits within a recess on the rear of the dot-sight--then you can use a standard "suppressor height" front sight.