Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Great Broadmouth Canyon Elk Massacre 2016

Hey Phil. Thanks for your always honest positions. I think I've said everything I'm going to say here, but I will leave you with this. Myself and my friends knew exactly what this was going to be and were up front about it. One can call me lazy, a shooter, whatever anybody wants, we didn't hide or pretend anything, and without reservation there isn't a shadow of doubt in my mind we did anything unethical or illegal.

Same goes for *MY* opinions on folks who hunt with bows, or casually pick off an elk from eight hundred yards, or tree an exhausted and terrified cat or bear into a tree to shoot them. Just an opinion and like rectal orifices, we all have one..

Cheers,
J

Jorge, You are correct that hunting ethics are usually pretty fluid and situational for most folks.
A few years ago after my daughter left her Antarctica job she spent some time in New Zealand hunting on her own. Growing up the way she did she had opinions on what constituted "real" hunting. She was eventually offered a chance to shoot stags from a helicopter for a meat operation and was a bit hesitant at first but thought what the hell, might as well try it first. She says it wasn't hunting as she knew it but it sure as hell was fun !
Then she got a chance to work for one of the top guides in NZ and saw how put and take "hunting" worked as well.
She wrote a pretty good article about it, comparing the two with no real bias and sent it to SCI. They accepted it at first, but that was when a few of the higher-ups started getting bad press about their proclaimed ethics and they decided not to run it.

Not so, buddy.

I respect you, so I feel compelled to respond. I completely agree shooting from a helicopter is not for me, not even for hogs and the bloom fell of the rose with SCI a long time ago, so we have some common ground. That said, I stand with my previous post to you.

I respect you to, but I don't get the "not so" .

Even if the critter had tested positive for CWD, you could have - if you chose to do so - kept the meat. CWD has not been shown to be transmissible to humans, and the prions are not generally present in the meat, only the central nervous system and certain bodily secretions of the animal.

The problem with CWD is that it's a prion disease. Once it's somewhere, it's essentially there for good. They don't break down, they cannot be mitigated or destroyed (not even an autoclave will do it), and they are persistent, virulent pathogens.

Like it or not, the animal husbandry practices around deer and elk ranching (whether for meat, "trophy breeding", or for shooting operations, as well as those kept for the scent lure industry) are the prime sources of outbreaks and transmission. This is a subject and a problem that sportsmen are going to have to face and should face.

All i can tell you is what I was told.

Jorge, the respect goes both ways - and the helicopter shooting my daughter did in New Zealand was not even promoted as "hunting", it was simply a commercial and legal way to collect meat. Much as shooting captive animals behind wire, except the animals had been free range for generations . Both Fun and legal, but can it be called hunting ?

She claims that stalking this, on foot, from the bottom was more to her liking

I live and hunt on the edge of the Bob Marshall Wilderness, so it's safe to say I won't be chasing penned elk this fall

Is that an actual stated, published view by those orgs?

Yes. B&C and P&Y don't allow entries of animals taken in husbandry operations or from inside high fence areas regardless of size determining such to not be within the definition of "fair chase"

SCI, different story.

My original quote failed to include the "unethical" portion. I'm aware high-fence critters are not included.

Do they publish the view of being unethical or simply only including fair chase?

Nevermind. Answered my own question.

http://www.boone-crockett.org/huntingEthics/ethics_cannedshoot.asp?area=huntingEthics
FWIW.

I couldn't care any less what someone else does.

I know more than a few guys that would have never killed anything if they didn't pay for it. It works for them. I'm sure there are more than a few guys around that would never get laid if they didn't pay for it either.

That is me......been paying the same woman over 31 years.......and she also would probably lay claim to half all my assets.

Guessing they ain't too popular in Texas.

201 -

I just now read your OP. I don't know how I missed this for a month ? ?
Anywho.

Thank you for spilling the beans. How else would we know w/ o getting screwed ourselves. THNX

I've never had the privilege to HUNT Elk...I would NOT participate under the circumstances you describe. As you said, " it's not hunting ", I totally agree. I would NOT participate for book Deer, Elk, Bison, etc. under those circumstances either.

Having not read past the OP I don't know what any others have said and I'm not parroting anyone.

This situation is sickening. How can it be stopped ? How can it be made ILLEGAL? I'm really at a loss for words.

You have my highest respect and let me say KUDOS to you.

Jerry

Just curious, what part of it would you make illegal, and why?

I don't mean to be critical but I'm surprised you asked.

Elk, Deer, Bison, Sheep, et.al. are 'game animals'. I suppose I view them as the American Indians do.

Where is FAIR CHASE in that scenario ??

From 201's post, it was merely an animal 'DRIVE', similar to a cattle drive to market.

IMO, game animals deserve "Fair Chase" and AFAIC marketing, selling,etc. should be illegal.

I could go into more detail and even rant but I hope I've described my opinion, feelings & attitude sufficiently.


Jerry

Jerry, I have my own opinions, I'm just curious about the foundation for yours. Because I'm pretty sure that with any critical examination, the foundation will unravel fairly quickly.


So, again the question, which part would you make illegal?

The "driving" part? Would you outlaw deer drives too?

The "fair chase" part? Lot's of people consider high fence hunts to be outside the realm of fair chase. So would you outlaw all high fence operations?

The elk farming/selling part? If you'd make elk farming illegal, on what basis, because they're game animals? Because you like to think of them as American Indians do, whatever that means? American Indians did lots of hunts we wouldn't consider fair chase, keep that in mind.

All kinds of game animals and game fish are farmed. Salmon and pheasants and chukars and deer to name a few. It's how restaurants in the US are able to serve game meat.

Would you make raising gamebirds like pheasants illegal?

If you'd make raising elk illegal, on what basis? If I own land and raise cows for meat, why should you be able to tell me I can't also raise elk for meat?

Or, charge someone $10k for the privilege of shooting a bull, if I choose to?