Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire bicycles ruining forest trails

I know we have a lot of mountain bikers here. What are your suggestions for this?
A couple weeks ago, we hiked a lot of miles on forest trails around Ketchum, ID. I hadn't hiked up there since last year and I was appalled at the amount of destruction that had been done to the trails by bikes in just 1 year's time.
The problem is simple - they ride in the rain and mud. The tires leave muddy grooves all the way down a hill and rain runs straight down the trail causing erosion. After a few sessions of that, the trail gets so V'd that hikers have to walk to one side of the trail because it's murder on the ankles.

Poor trail design for multiple use and/or no restrictions for the conditions. Run a couple strings of horses in the same conditions and you'll have torn up trails too.

Horses leave round holes. They fill with water and in a short time, the sides collapse. Before long, the tracks disappear. They might be bumpy for a while, but nothing washes out. It's no different than elk tracks on steep side hills that don't cause erosion.
A bike leaves a long continuous groove that causes major erosion. There's no comparison.

Rchuck, I know you have a thing for homo's in lycra but,like I said... If the trails are not designed properly for the usage, bitch to the forest service to fix it. But don't try to pass off the "no comparison" crap between horses, elk and bikes. I've walked too many trashed, knee deep mud gullies caused by horse strings in the Bob and half a dozen other wilderness areas in Montana to buy in to your argument. I've traveled elk trails that were worse than any trails I've been on that were regularly traveled by mtb's. Enough animals, whether two legged(two wheeled) or four, in the right conditions will trash any trails.

Bikes of every kind tend to create misery.

Or Lamas....

Problem I have with Mtn Bikes---I'm hiking up & they come blasting down. It's either jump out of the way or have a heck of a wreck. I'm carrying a walking stick now. Plan on using it like a spear into the spokes.

Horses are far worse on trails than bikes in my experience

I've never seen a Mtn bike "blasting" down anywhere. I do see a few with people riding them though and thats where the problem lies, with the PEOPLE.

Some like Rockchuck burn too many calories on attaching politics to inanimate objects instead diverting that energy to the individuals that utilize said objects.

I've always found it best to judge people as individuals and how they conduct themselves. Otherwise you act like sniveling, antigun liberals when indicting whole groups for the actions of a few.

Rock Chuck, I've seen lots of things ruin forest and the trails within them,but mountain bikes ain't on that list. "Hunters" would be #1..

4 wheelers here, they got to chew sh..up.

??

Perhaps you don't get around much?

...and the damage they do to trails is well known. Most every form of travel will tear up trails, mountain bikes seem to do it faster than any other. All that shearing torque applied to a couple of square inches of knobby tread, it'd be difficult to design a human-powered device more effective at gouging into the dirt.

Likewise the rudeness of mountain bikers is well known, particularly in flying by at close proximity to pedestrians and horses. OF COURSE it ain't all of them, but I'd say its most.

Birdwatcher

Count me in on the Against the bike side. They are not only a problem on the trails, but also on the street.

I have never encountered a bicyclist on a FS trail.




Travis

Share the trails and shut the hell up.

Here in the East, they even discourage the use of shoes with aggressive tread on heavily travelled trails.

Anything with wheels is illegal on the patch of public land I usually hunt. Occasionally, I find horse tracks, but not enough to tear anything up. I do however, seem to find litter along with the tracks.

The goal is to ban all use of public land making it only available for viewing from the perimeter through fences <face palm>

Banned from on-road vehicles, banned from motorcycles and atv's, banned from horses, the next ban is bicycles and the last will be banned from all but bare feet.

Sure sounds like incremental erosion of gun ownership.

My best dead elk/deer hauler is an old mountain bike with a 2"x6" with a couple of holes drilled in it that reaches from about the front of the front tire, to the back of the back tire. The holes are for where the goose neck that used to hold the handle bars goes through, the other goes over the post that the seat used to be on. The peddles, sprockets, and chain have all been removed, and the steering has been spot welded in place. You just put the carcass over the lumber after it is gutted and roll it out. So you want me to leave that home now?

Now there's a useful solution to a real problem.

Yup your right. Can't argue with that. I have changed my position on this subject.

Sounds interesting. Have a picture?

I think bikers with their outfits and little foam helmets must not be right in the head. They don't seem to think quite like "normal" people.

I think it needs to be a trail by trail kind of decision. (who and how the decision is made is another whole bag of worms). Some trails because of terrain and construction can handle bikes and more. Some can't. Here in the NE, lots of trails are pretty wet and drainage is lacking and bikes or ATVs would ( and sometimes do really trash them.)

For along time we have had trails that are ok for snow machine, but closed to other motorized traffic and we have dealt with it.

One thing that's hard to accept is that by limiting some access, you have back country that's beyond the reach of some (many) individuals.

From a hunting perspective its a bigger deal where the game is bigger than deer. I can carry a boned out whitetail for miles, but a elk or moose is a different story.

Contact whoever manages the forest and let them know.

Send an email to a couple of the local mountain bike groups. There are a bunch in Idaho and they all have a vested interest in keeping up the trails.

http://www.singletracks.com/mountain-bike/club.php
https://www.swimba.org
http://www.cimbarides.org
http://snakerivermountainbikeclub.com
http://eaglebikepark.org


Buy a pair of decent boots.

Quit whining.

I gave it away a few years ago, I got a few more old bikes around, plan on making another someday, maybe I'll make a thread here when I do. I also think I'll use a small post next time.

I'm a mountain biker, hunter, and trail walker. I belong to a local group, COPMOBA, that maintains and builds trails. It sounds like there are a couple of things wrong with this FS trail. Obviously the bikers don't care enough to be involved in fixing the trail. If water runs down the trail instead of off of it will be a problem. Sometimes the FS just makes it too hard for anyone but them to work on trails (local experience) and they don't work on them.

A side note: Mountain bikers are making a push to be allowed in some wilderness areas. I am totally against that. If you feel strongly about this you should be contacting your local representatives to let them know how you feel.

Kind of a stretch coming from you, fball2.

I don't go out in public in tights, so I think I'll do ok, but thanks for the vote of confidence, 'preciate it.

The score for dirtbags on mtb's vs hunters on foot/horse/atv is about equal. For every ricardo on a bike I can find a hunter/horse packer etc. being just as bad. People are people, regardless of their choice of locomotion. Some are d!*k's and some aren't.

Use only soft-pawed animals as pack animals. Lynx, Cougars and Wolverines are my choice of back country pack animals. 😉

And camo is any different?

just when I wanted to get into ATV trail riding, people before me phugged it up for everyone by not being considerate.

now the closest "approved" trail is 3.5 hours away.

can't say I blame the decisions makers though. I've seen how some of those atv guys leave a trail after their done. Its more like a monster truck rally than getting into nature.

You must be thinking of roadies, most of us MTB riders wear baggies.

Those evil bikes.

This. I am in Elko,Nv. having spent the last week here hiking in the Jarbridge and Ruby mountains. It snowed in the high country last week followed by lots of sunshine, Elk season opened on Saturday. We went into the Jarbridge Wilderness on friday and the trail was a mud trench peppered w/ horsecrap. Every FS 2 track whether open or closed was deeply rutted by the ATVs which were everywhere. As soon as we entered the FS land every wide spot contained elaborate camps full of travel trailers and ATVs. I saw a jerk cutting live trees w/ a chainsaw for firewood and stopped and filmed him causing him to threaten to kill me if I reported him which I did anyway.

Many people are richards, dressing in Camo or Spandex just makes the easier to classify.


mike r

In the late 60s and early 70s I spent 6 summers on FS trail crews in Idaho and Alaska, respectively. RC has it right on wheeled vehicle damage to trails when wet. Horse use is much less so, but still pretty bad.

As to not being "designed for such use - blame the FS" - well that's mostly ignorance talking , tho actually true in part. Many of these trails were never "designed" at all - just established by use between places people wanted to go. Quite a lot of them over 100 years ago, when no one used wheeled vehicles unless they built a road, or improved the route in well used questionable areas.

I will add that many of these bicycle damaged trails were, even if put in by FS, were done so before mountain, multi-speed bikes came into vogue. And motorcycle use was prohibited at that time for RC's very point. But dice mt bikes are not "motorized" they slipped under the radar.

So there IS an easy solution with precedent. Restrict mountain bikes to those places and trails where they cannot cause damage, or as suggested, to new trails designed for them.

Of course the biking " environmentalist" elite, the so called "greens" will have a chit fit for obvious reasons, while hikers and horsemen wil love it. Ironic, no?

I've never seen a biker, horseback rider, or a hunter maintain trails in my neck of the woods.

Maybe it's different where everyone else lives.

Whoa! You may be on to something!

Better yet, they can just eat the gutpile after the kill.

Talk about cleaning up after ourselves........


Casey

I got my binos out. Can't find no bike tracks, can't find no boot prints, only horse tracks I found led up to the back of my horse. I reckon it must be all the elk tracks wearin out this trail!

Its very different where i live. Ive spent hundreds of hours on trail maintenance. The spirit of volunteerism is weak where you reside.

Copmoba.com

Where does 16bore tend to walk?




Travis

Reckon they must be game trails. Slew of AT opportunities but I'd guess forest service does the rest?

No idea. East vs west.

Damn bikers

Not game trails but on nat forest land. Sun Valley is yuppieville. The FS has spend a wad of our tax money building a really nice complex of forest trails, many miles of them in some of the most scenic land anywhere. Since it's my tax money, I hate to see them destroyed like what I saw last week. FWIW, some of the trails are so bad that not only do hikers have to walk beside the trails but so do horses.

It's amazing how people think public lands should only be used in the manner they use them, and will then complain about other users who are doing the same thing they are...

There is a set of etiquette for every sport. Mountain bikers whine about hunters being out there and worry that they will be shot, while any hunter knows to be sure of your target and what is behind it.

People aren't supposed to ride mountain bikes when trails are muddy or wet, and while there will always be [bleep] of every type, most new riders who just got into a growing sport may not realize it.

It's no different than new hunters failing to realize that it is rude to walk down a game trail with a truck parked in front of it when they get there late.

The appropriate thing to do would be to contact local mountain bike clubs and make sure they are passing the message along, and see if trail signs can be updated with that information.

It would be great if websites where people go to find out about these areas would post "rules for responsible use" for every type of recreation.

Mountain bikers here take better care of the trails than the government does, and organize workdays to maintain them and pick up trash.

Also keep in mind that when public lands are on the verge of being sold or turned into "preserves" that are basically cut off to any form of recreation, the more people who are vocal about keeping them open, the better.

We have a large trail system called Brown Mountain Trails. Miles and miles of trails accessible to mountain bikes. Most around here quit using them because of the damage done by bikes! Even the bikers are not using them because of super deep ruts.. As far as bikes in Wilderness areas keep them out, or let every wheeled vehicle in,bike riders should get no special privileges nor should anyone else! All who use the trail system should help maintain the trails or pizz off. My two cents

Seriously, bikes won't do in a thousand years what was done in 30 by quads.

Mountain bikes don't kill trails, people kill trails...

40 million mountain bikers vs. 17 million hunters. Probably makes a little sense to try and work it out. Hillary ain't after bikes.

÷

+1.

As an old time "biker" (motorcycles), still sounds funny to me to hear bicyclists called bikers. Friend of mine differentiates by calling them "pedal bikers"!

Certainly see both sides of the mountain bike argument. I like the idea of having more proponents of public lands remaining public.

As indicated by others, it ain't the mode used, it's when, where, and how. Dry hard trails are accepting to most anything. Get them wet, and wheels and numerous hooves tear them up in a hurry. I've used horses and bicycles both to get into the back country.

These 4 wheeler tracks ( some small number of them mine) across wet tundra where i am now will last for decades - perhaps centuries.. More better this time of year. Country is largely frozen over. Travel is easy with little or no damage done. And one can go faster. All the water filled ruts and he's are now flat ice.

Now if we can just get some snow. Currently 24 degrees and blowing 28 Mph ESE average weather this time of year

. Of the 40 million mountain bikes sold, only about 18% ride the trails. The rest are kids riding them around town, and campers using them around the campground. Let's not confuse purchases with use! Hillary will be after bikes if she thinks she can steal money from the owners, like licences and such!!

Your experience differs from mine. If a horse wears a bad trail so does an elk. If a pack string wear a trail so does a herd of elk. The deepest ruts I have seen are from bikes. Usually the motorized type, but I can see where bicycles would too, just not as deep.

Mountain Bikers