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Bugger Offline OP
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I have a Russian sxs 12 gauge. The barrel markings show it to be 3". That is if the design around the front of the chamber area is an indication. Question is how to tell if the chamber is cut for a rolled crimp or a star crimp. Second question is there seems to be no indication of choke. I suppose putting up a target at 40 yards and counting holes in the target to be the only way.

The manufacturer is (spelling is likely wrong) Baikia.



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Bugger - The manufacturer is likely Baikal.
They have been making guns for a long time. Used to be imported to the US by EAA.
Different models and such, some may be older.
I don't think it matters if roll vs star crimp, I have shot both types in my Baikal O/U without much discernable effect.
If it is fixed chokes, most SxS of O/U guns will be M/F.
Hope it helps.

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Thanks. I think roll crimp chambers are shorter. I may be wrong


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Shotgun shells are normally measured after firing. If a new empty 3 inch shell fits the chamber without difficulty and the crimp area is not mangled you have at least a 3 inch chamber.

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I need to take pictures of shells in question. In the 50's shotgun shells often if ever had shot cups. The load consisted of a primer, powder, over powder wads, shot, over shot wad. The over shot was was held in place by the roll over crimp. Thisroll over crimp was. Very short. I know that there were star crimp shells as early as before WWII because dad had bought several cases of Remington shells so made. There was no difference in length of these as loaded. The length of the roll crimp shells after firing was a good deal shorter than the star crimped shells.
I've accidently shot a 3" magnum star crimped load in my 2 3/4" Model twelve once. But only once the shell extracted ok, but didn't eject as the opening on the side of the receiver was too short. I was concerned at the time and still am that the pressure of the shell in that chamber might have been high. Also of concern was the crimp opening up into the barrel in front of the chamber may have deformed the shot column.
The sxs I'm talking about has a design at 3" from the face of the barrel which I believe indicates the length of the chamber being 3".
This shotgun is mechanically sound, locks up tight, no rust, & no dents.
The finish on the stock is gut wrenching ugly.

If the ' hamber/throat' of this shotgun is designed for the shorter roll crimp shells, I'd have the same concerns I had with firing a 3" shell in a 2 3/4" chamber.

And no the fired shells do vary in length depending on crimp style.


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just stick a piece of wire into the breech until you can touch the front edge of the chamber and get a measurement

a 3 inch chamber is a 3 inch chamber regardless of the type of crimp on your shells

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Rent a head space gauge if you are really concerned.

http://www.4-dproducts.com/displayitem.php?rowid=291&tname=rental

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I obviously am. It making myself clear, the point of my question. It's not the 3" I'm concerned about, it's the leade if you call it that on a shotgun. I'm wondering about if the chamber is designed with a short leade as for a roll over crimp. I don't know much about Russian shotgun design.


Last edited by Bugger; 10/24/16.

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There are long forcing cone reamers on the same page. I have used them to lengthen forcing cones in a couple of older 16 gauges.

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we have a Baikyal 20 gauge s/s.....it shoots 3 inch folded crimp shells...no problem

Last edited by sdgunslinger; 10/24/16.
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Originally Posted by sdgunslinger
we have a Baikyal 20 gauge s/s.....it shoots 3 inch shells...no problem

Thanks, that's what I wanted to hear.

BTW, I live just north of you, East of Milbank. Sent you a PM.


Last edited by Bugger; 10/24/16.

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Baikal's are a pretty modern import item. I doubt that any where imported during the time of the Soviet Union. So, I wouldn't be too concerned about star vs. roll because roll crimps were long obsolete by the time the Iron Curtain came down.


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Had a couple of them. Baikal, TOZ66, 3", and after sixty years of shotgunning this the first time I have ever heard that there may be different chambers for roll or fold crimp. I think it is the product of an overactive imagination.
Shells are a finite length when fired and chambers are cut for specific lengths. The forcing cone begins at the end of the fired, opened case.
There were many shotguns made in years past with 2 1/2, 2 9/16, and other length chambers.
My Baikals had 30" full and follow and the other was a 20" IC, M. Both were hammer guns and had Greener crossbones. They did have a knurl design at the 3" position ahead of the breech.
None were made or imported during roll crimp days.

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Originally Posted by BarryC
I doubt that any where imported during the time of the Soviet Union.


Mine is a 16 ga made by the same company that now makes the Baikal, Izhevst Mashina, and is clearly stamped CCCP. And it shoots standard folded crimp shells without any problem.

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Originally Posted by Bugger
I have a Russian sxs 12 gauge. The barrel markings show it to be 3". That is if the design around the front of the chamber area is an indication.


I wouldn't rely on that decoration to tell you chamber length. If you take the barrels out of the breech and look at the flats on the underside of them, you should see proof marks to indicate what it was built for. By way of example, if it has something like 12/76 or 12x76 stamped into it, it is a gun chambered for 3" shells. If it has 12/70 or 12x70 on the other hand, it is for 2 3/4".

As others have said, shells designated 3" are a nominal 3" after firing, whether paper or plastic. That is what a gun marked 3" is chambered for (though you could of course use shorter shells).

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Originally Posted by RupertBear
Originally Posted by BarryC
I doubt that any where imported during the time of the Soviet Union.


Mine is a 16 ga made by the same company that now makes the Baikal, Izhevst Mashina, and is clearly stamped CCCP. And it shoots standard folded crimp shells without any problem.


I have an IJ 18 12 gauge single shot that my dad bought me in 1984, it was a used gun that is marked made in the USSR. It was imported into Florida and at some point made it into Canada where my dad bought it.

Edit: It is marked " Universal Sporting Goods Miami Fla"

It's been a solid gun that has harvested grouse ducks, geese and even a deer for me.

Last edited by gerrygoat; 10/25/16.

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gerrygoat;
Good evening to you sir, I trust the day treated you folks well.

If memory serves, I picked up a new Baikal single shot - identical sounding to yours - in a local Saskatchewan gun shop in 1975 or maybe 1976. They were a wee bit less money than a Winchester/Cooey then - maybe $5 or so and in that part of the world were more common then than the Brazilian made Remington single shots that were seen later on.

It had a chrome lined barrel, full choke and while it did take 3" shells, I don't think I ever shot any in it.

Anyway sir, thanks for stirring up a few pleasant memories of duck shoots on big sloughs in northern Saskatchewan with that Russian shotgun.

All the best to you folks this fall.

Dwayne


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Thanks Dwayne, that gun is from my dad so it has a special place. Interestingly enough this one is 2 3/4" only and is 5 1/4 lbs all ready to go so I don't even want to think about how much it would kick with 3" shells smile

Good to hear that they were common back in the day, I would love to find another one in .410 or 20 gauge one day for my wife to carry for grouse, a single shot or double. They are well made guns.


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Your gun should have the chamber length marked on the barrel flats in MM, 65mm-2 1/2", 70mm- 2 3/4" and 76mm-3". Sometimes it is just the number, sometimes it will be 12-70.


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Your gun should have the chamber length marked on the barrel flats in MM, 65mm-2 1/2", 70mm- 2 3/4" and 76mm-3". Sometimes it is just the number, sometimes it will be 12-70. It shouldn't make any difference whether you shoot star or roll crimp shells.

My old shotguns built before there were any star crimped shells pattern just as well with either. I shoot roll crimped shells for my hunting loads and star crimped for SC and skeet with them. Mine are all 2 1/2"/65mm chambers.


After the first shot the rest are just noise.

Make mine a Minaska

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