Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Pre 64 Model 70-Featherweight 358 caliber

Here is that picture of the 358 M 70

The lettering appears to have been buffed and the number 5 looks to be stamped deeper than the 3 and the 8. Also the finish on the receiver doesn't look right, the whole rifle may have been reblued. Better pics would help, but going on those in the ad I would say "buyer beware".

Here is that picture of the 358 M 70

[img]http://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/at...mp_hash=b77e8c2c756715d185309bf26c338221[/img]

That "358" stamp looks fake to me. I may be wrong, but it doesn't look right...

It takes a lot of balls to try and pass this off as legit, some folks must not know 1600 bucks will get you a fine country ass stomping!

Yes indeed it would... . I'm thinking since the price is so low, the seller has to know it's a fake....

Of course, by not putting [re-bored/re-stamped 358 Win from 308 Win] in the title means he's looking for a sucker, bet he'd take the money and not say chit if you didn't ask.

I bought my Dad a pre 64 model 70 358 win for Christmas last year. This is what the real thing looks like

Regardless, Soothsayers Pop is a lucky man to have a son and a rifle like that.

Hope the old gentleman gets that rifle scoped up and kills some game with it this season.

I concur with what Sheister has said. There are very sophisticated counterfeit model 70s out there which require a forensic approach to determine they are not original - you cannot detect they are a fake by a close visual, even magnified examination.

The .358 mentioned in the OP is a feeble attempt at fakery which would not fool any serious collector. However, the existence of very good fakes in some extremely rare chamberings has made most collectors very wary of paying huge sums of money for what appears to be a mint rifle in a rare chambering. Many collectors are protecting themselves by only buying rifles with provable provenance, which is a very troubling side-effect of people counterfeiting rifles. Collectors who have perfectly legit and rare guns are at risk of seeing potential buyers shy away from those rifles if the owner cannot prove they are authentic.

I know of some collectors who have started cataloging every serial number they can find and noting the chambering and other details about the rifle. This seems like a daunting task when there are 700,000 pre-64 model 70s out there, but this effort has already resulted in identifying rare rifles which have been faked. When a mint .270 sells on RIA for $1,700 in 2008, then the same serial number reappears in 2016 on J.D. Julia as a 250-3000 Savage with an estimated sale price of $14,000, they know not to buy it and they also sound the alarm to other collectors about the clearly faked rifle. Often, the person selling it has no idea it is a fake. They bought it several years before with no clue there was a problem. I've seen careful collectors detect faked rifles by tracking serial numbers on two different occasions. Occasionally there has been talk from WACA members about creating an online database for logging and cross-referencing model 70 serial numbers. In the absence of Winchester factory records on the model 70, such a database would be a huge help in putting an end to the counterfeit rifle business.

I'll get off my soap box now.

Cheers,

Justin

PS: I hope some day my son buys me a .358