24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Jeff_O Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
I bought a bare Remington short action for an upcoming build. It's nominally a plain ol' .473 boltface action. I bought it without a bolt and am fitting a PTG magnum boltface bolt for a 6.5 SAUM build.

I will need to open the feed rails. I have a factory Remington WSM action on hand, so I can get measurements from that for the feed rails for a SAUM/WSM.

Before I do this I thought I'd ask the pros if there are any gotchas to be aware of. Also, do you do this on the mill, or use files? Sure looks like it'd be a quick job with files. I do however have a mill (and appropriate vise jaws to grab round stuff).

Thanks for any info! Appreciated bigly <grin>.


The CENTER will hold.

Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two

FÜCK PUTIN!
BP-B2

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 614
K
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
K
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 614
It doesn't look like anyone else is going to respond so I'll put my two cents worth in. I hesitate to use the "D" word (Dremel) in a gunsmithing blog, but that is my tool of choice for action rails. I can have one done with a Dremel before I can even get my mill set up. I start with a carbide burr then finish the job with a Cratex point.

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,591
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,591
Originally Posted by Kp321
It doesn't look like anyone else is going to respond so I'll put my two cents worth in. I hesitate to use the "D" word (Dremel) in a gunsmithing blog, but that is my tool of choice for action rails. I can have one done with a Dremel before I can even get my mill set up. I start with a carbide burr then finish the job with a Cratex point.


Go take a look at a 700 action and think about what you are doing... if you stand by your comments you need to stop working on guns.

IdiotO should never have started...


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Jeff_O Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Originally Posted by Kp321
It doesn't look like anyone else is going to respond so I'll put my two cents worth in. I hesitate to use the "D" word (Dremel) in a gunsmithing blog, but that is my tool of choice for action rails. I can have one done with a Dremel before I can even get my mill set up. I start with a carbide burr then finish the job with a Cratex point.


Interesting. I know I could do it cleanly on the mill; I know I could do it cleanly with files. Not sure I have a steady enough hand for a Dremel. I'll look at it. Thanks for the help.


The CENTER will hold.

Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two

FÜCK PUTIN!
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 173
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 173
Please dont take this as a flame, because it isnt. Im asking out of sheer curiosity. If you were already buying an action for a planed build, why not buy a magnum action to begin with?

I know I have had a few naked actions laying around, none of witch were Magnum actions. I flirted with the idea of making one into a magnum single shooter for the range. Even making one into a repeater. The advice my smith gave me was although it can be done, you'll be happier/better off starting with a magnum action From the start. Cost wise and peace of mind goes a long way.

IC B2

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Jeff_O Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Hard to find a SAUM or WSM stainless short action M700 donor locally... I found one (the one I have on hand to use as a pattern to cut these rails) but hadn't seen another go by... Bud's sells Remington M700 short actions without a bolt for, if memory serves, $229. A PT&G magnum boltface bolt is $225-ish. So it works on the cost level. I wouldn't slum a modern Remington trigger anyway nor did I want to use ANY of the parts (bottom metal, stock, mag sheetmetal, etc) from a donor for this build so this way was much cleaner in that regard as well.

That leaves modifying the feed rails. At the end of the day that's a metal cutting operation and that's what I do for a living. Modifying them per se appears straightforward but I'm very much still hoping for any pearls the pros care to drop.

Having the one on hand to use as a pattern is a big comfort, I admit. I am contemplating converting my '06 to RUM specs for the next build after this one, and I don't have a factory RUM action to copy. Gonna see how this short action goes before I make the final call on that plan.



The CENTER will hold.

Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two

FÜCK PUTIN!
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 173
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 173
I can relate to the "not being able to find one locally" I've taken my search online in the past. I've had good luck finding actions on GB and having my local FFL make the purchase for me. I end up paying cost + Transfer fee.

Great guy to work with that way. I guess he could hit me with cost pluse profit pluse transfer fee, but I do other business with him and he usually just does it as a favor. Could be industry standard for all i know.

I am a CNC machinist by trade as well but Im smart enough to know I should let a competent smith do what I have little experience with. Especially on anything that involves me setting of a detonation at the tip of my nose. Good luck on your endeavor.

Last edited by BriGuy; 11/24/16.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Jeff_O Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
It's just the feed rails.... no detonation risk..... I mean look at them. If - big if- that bevel on them really needs to continue (be widened) then it's a bit more complicated. I'd likely modify one of my countersinks and do it on the mill. But I suspect there's plenty of bevel there, and it can just be plain ol' widened up. But I'm still researching this.

On my other action I'd be opening the bolt face as well. That looks like a bit of a pain (eccentric undercut for the clip extractor) unless I mill the bolt for an M16 extractor.

The other cool thing about a truly bare action from Bud's is that I don't end up with yet more barrels, cheap stocks, and other "stuff" piling up everywhere messing with my "no hoarding!" personal mantra. smile

Manual machinist here BTW.... I did just see a drawing over in PM showing CNC toolpaths for opening a boltface....


The CENTER will hold.

Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two

FÜCK PUTIN!
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 886
H
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
H
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 886
Opening feed rails is not a mill operation. My favorite tool for this is a 1" wide plastic handled diamond lap. I use the brass intended to feed as a gauge and open the rails with the diamond to get the release point and angle exactly where I want it. Then I use my trigger stones to polish up the edges so they don't scratch the brass. Takes me about 15-30 minutes to open up an ought six action to Ultra Mag now that I done a bunch.


"Hired Gun" Quickest and fastest all motor sand car on the planet.
3.008 at 104.8 300' of sand.

NRA Patron Life Member, Gunsmith, Instructor, Chief RSO
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Jeff_O Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
HiredGun, I thought about calling or PM'ing you. Thanks for the post.

Do you open the boltfaces on those actions too I assume? Woodruff cutter for the extractor undercut or what?

Happy Thanksgiving to all! Hope your days are full of good food and family.


The CENTER will hold.

Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two

FÜCK PUTIN!
IC B3

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 886
H
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
H
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 886
The extractor groove in a 700 bolt face is not round and would be pretty hard to duplicate on a manual machine.

Depending on which bolt I'm opening we just fit an M16 extractor or if there is still undercut left we machine it out and silver solder in a sleeve to get a good solid edge. Then install the M16 extractor. With an M16 extractor on a ultra mag don't forget to make the bolt nose relief large enough to clear the extractor as it jumps the rim on the brass.


"Hired Gun" Quickest and fastest all motor sand car on the planet.
3.008 at 104.8 300' of sand.

NRA Patron Life Member, Gunsmith, Instructor, Chief RSO
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Jeff_O Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Thanks. I have a PTG bolt with M16 cut that I can copy, or for that matter I bet PTG has a drawing I can access. Looked like a 1/4" endmill for the main slot, then offset it .010" for the final .260" width. The pocket in the slot obviously takes a smaller EM. Didn't look difficult. Do you use an endmill to start the hole for the pin? Looked like even a spotting drill might want to scoot off the radius.


-------------

I've got this damn 30-06 <grin>. It was the rifle I got my first deer with. I can't seem to make myself shoot it. Recently I worked up an accurate LR load with the ELD's but I STILL never seem to shoot it. It's unused "stuff" and I'm coming to dislike having unused stuff around.

I also have a nice fast twist fluted Pac-Nor .33 caliber barrel from last year's aborted wild hair to build a big .33. It's also stuff.

Sounds like I'm a hour of feed rail work, a little lathe work opening the bolt face, and an M16 extractor cut away from combining the two unused stuffs into something cool! Sweet.



The CENTER will hold.

Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two

FÜCK PUTIN!
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,836
A
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
A
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,836
jggunsmith.wordpress.com/2010/08/07/remington-700-m16-extractor-install/

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
S
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
S
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Why ANYONE responds to the idiot liberal is beyond me. Lots of idiots on the 'Fire it would seem.


"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Jeff_O Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
AJ, thanks!

I made a couple fixturing blocks to hold the bolt in the Kurt.

[Linked Image]

As far as drilling the holes for the retaining pin, I think what the guy left out of that J&G blog post was the threaded fixture that screws into the back of the bolt, gets put in a 5c collet in an indexer, then perhaps the firing pin hole gets a dead center on a mill-top tailstock? I've got all that stuff.... conversely it looks like there's just enough to grab with a collet on the front of the bolt (before you'd hit the lugs) and put the back of the bolt w/threaded fixture on the tailstock.

That pin hole looks like more of a pain than the slot! smile

I just got an order for some parts with metric threads so before I switch the lathe over for that, I think I'll make that threaded fixture.

I love making tooling. Best way to learn IMHO. Made most of my chambering tooling, my JGS floating reamer holder being the main exception.



The CENTER will hold.

Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two

FÜCK PUTIN!
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Jeff_O Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Threaded fixture for the butt end of the bolt.

Guess I'm committed now! smile

[Linked Image]


The CENTER will hold.

Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two

FÜCK PUTIN!
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,100
A
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
A
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,100
HiredGun,
I'm impressed. My experience is very few gunsmiths know how to properly tune or modify feed rails to make difficult to feed cartridges function well. I've done a bit of file work and polished M700 rails and ramp to improve feeding on M700's, but changing to a case with significantly different dimensions is something else.

JeffO,
Be careful my man, be very careful..........


Casey


Casey

Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Jeff_O Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Always liked your .sig line, Casey. Dittos! smile

I have two that I need to modify. The first is a ".308" action that needs opened to WSM/SAUM specs. In that case, I have a factory Rem WSM action to use as a pattern. Not too worried about that one (famous last words). I'll do that one first.

The second is the "30-06" action I'm gonna make into a RUM. That one is more concerning. I'm months away from crunch time on that one though.

HiredGun is a good dude on many levels.


The CENTER will hold.

Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two

FÜCK PUTIN!
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,135
1
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
1
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,135
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Why ANYONE responds to the idiot liberal is beyond me. Lots of idiots on the 'Fire it would seem.


Not so fast there are some real gems of info to be had..grin

My shoe laces are a bit too long.. any advice?

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,591
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,591
Originally Posted by 10at6
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Why ANYONE responds to the idiot liberal is beyond me. Lots of idiots on the 'Fire it would seem.


Not so fast there are some real gems of info to be had..grin

My shoe laces are a bit too long.. any advice?


Do not let JO advise or you will be there all day shaking your head listening to that moron discuss the finer points of aiglets overpenetrating....


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
692 members (12344mag, 160user, 12308300, 1234, 163bc, 06hunter59, 71 invisible), 2,718 guests, and 1,268 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,617
Posts18,398,496
Members73,817
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.159s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.9049 MB (Peak: 1.0610 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 14:39:54 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS