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I'm curious to hear if any of you guys have loaded heavy 9mm bullets for subsonic loads, or are interested in such things. I don't mean standard 147gr stuff, but heavier than that.

I started on a heavy 9mm bullet project this weekend, using an old Lee 6 cavity tumble lube 124gr mold as a donor. (that tumble lube design never shot as well as the standard lube groove version for me, so it was sitting there unused.) I carved out some O-1 tool steel on the lathe in the bullet shape I wanted, and made a D-reamer to bore out the mold cavities.

I didn't do any calculations on bullet weight, but based my dimensions on a commercial 147gr TC cast bullet, adding weight where I could, mostly the nose and eliminating the lube groove. This ended up as a LFN style, with a .245" meplat; seated to 1.160" it leaves the same case capacity as commercial 147gr cast bullets.

I was hoping for 155-160gr, but ended up with a 178gr bullet! This may be too heavy for my goal of 900-1,000 fps for subsonic/suppressed use, but I'll work up loads, and shorten the bullet by .010" at a time to reduce weight if necessary.

Will post pics in a few days.

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I could see such a combo appealing in a carbine. Then again a bolt action 357 mag would allow one to easily use up to 200 gr if not ~220 gr and you wouldn't have to worry about pressure with subsonic loads.

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Guess I should have clarified, I'm loading this in Glock and other 9mm handguns, not long guns. The point is to have a heavy bullet at subsonic velocity for quiet use in a suppressed magazine fed handgun.

I've done heavy bullets in 38/357 lever guns (used a Marlin for the faster twist) successfully up to 270gr; that was fun but this is a little different although similar goals.

Last edited by Yondering; 11/15/16.
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Looking forward to the photos.


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Sign me up as interested in the results as well! If supressors become tax stamp free, I can see myself getting a threaded barrel for my glock 17.

I'd be curios if the lee 158 rf would work in a 9mm?

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I think this bullet is going to need a little more development (mostly shortening the base to lose weight), but here’s a couple pics for now.

5 cavities bored out, you can see one left of the original TL124 TC.
[Linked Image]

178gr LFN next to commercial 147gr cast. (The bullets in the background have a couple wrinkles; theywere from the second cast, didn’t have the mold heated up enough.) I need to make a fitted stem for the bullet seating die too.
[Linked Image]

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Originally Posted by 458 Lott
Sign me up as interested in the results as well! If supressors become tax stamp free, I can see myself getting a threaded barrel for my glock 17.

I'd be curios if the lee 158 rf would work in a 9mm?


Unfortunately the 158 RF doesn't work unless the barrel has a special long throat; the body of that bullet is too long for the 9mm case, it can be forced in there but you end up with a short nose and a bulged case from seating down into the web. Longer nose and less body is needed for 9mm.

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You run a twist rate calc to verify whether the bullet will stabilize? If that checks out and it feeds, have fun. If not you will be a little older and wiser.


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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Dang Dan, doom and gloom on anybody that deviates outside the box, huh? Attitudes like that sure don't encourage people to share new stuff on this forum.

My barrel is 1:16 twist, stability is not an issue. This isn't a slow twist 38 Spl.

I am a little older and wiser than yesterday, as you say, but not because of any failure with this project; it's shooting pretty well.

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Weren't diggin' in your chitt, relax. Way your OP sounded you hadn't shot any and were looking for suggestions.

FWIW, recent load work with a variety of powders for subsonic loads, albeit with slightly greater case capacity: WW231; 700X; 800X; Red Dot and Bullseye burn fairly clean with light loads. Lil Gun as well. The Xs and RD were the cleanest


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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I asked if any of you guys had done something similar; I'm not asking for suggestions on my bullet, I'm just posting that to share information. The "older and wiser" comment was a bit condescending, but maybe you didn't mean it that way and I probably was too prickly in my reaction. In case it's not clear, this isn't my first time designing a bullet; I'm not just stumbling around in the dark.

I have fired these, over 100 so far.

Have you done any heavy bullet subsonic load development in 9mm, and if so, how heavy? (meaning 9x19 specifically, not one of the other 9s.)

Last edited by Yondering; 11/21/16.
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I decided to shorten the base of these bullets, with the reasoning that ~170gr would still be heavy enough, and the extra case capacity would be useful. Removing .030" off the top of the mold brought the weight down to 168gr, and results in the same case capacity as the 147gr FN bullet pictured above.

Several powders are working well for this bullet. Clays seems to be the quietest, maxing out around 850 fps. WSF is good for 950+ fps, but is also quietest around 850-900 fps. Silhouette worked for faster loads, up to 1050 fps, but had a much sharper report (suppressed) than the other powders.

This mold was an older Lee design, with cross-hatched block faces for venting; it didn't vent well enough for this bullet, and the cross hatch grooves are difficult to clean out after machining. With that in mind, I machined a .003" section out of one block face for better venting, this worked well, I probably could do the other block as well but am holding off for now. No finning though. I also used a fly cutter to scribe vents in the top of the mold block, similar to the newer Lee molds; this seems to help base fillout a little more too.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

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Not in 9mm, just the .30 Sneezer. 180 grains 30:1. It is a necked down .357 case, probably has 1.5-2X the case capacity of your 9mm with the bullet you made. The powders I mentioned previously ran about 50% load density and any of them would work. Li'l Gun and 4759 work better but I don't think they would do the trick for you with that case and a handgun. Others I've used include WW540, WW571,IMR4227, Goex 3fg and 2400.

Last target below is 5 shots in the diamond @ 50 yards.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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What kinda contraption is it chambered in? Looks cool as hel l.

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[Linked Image]


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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Nifty.

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Dan, that Sneezer is interesting but has very little in common with heavy bullets in the 9mm. You aren't dealing with the same case capacity limitations, mag length restrictions, or feeding issues, it's not even a semi-auto. I'm not sure how it applies here?

Some of the powders you mention will work in heavy 9mm subs, but others are too bulky. I haven't bothered to try Red Dot, for example, because of it's bulk.

Last edited by Yondering; 11/22/16.
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Quote
I asked if any of you guys had done something similar


To my eye it has similarities, perhaps not yours. Your feed issues are different, but at the end of the day both are small cap. cases running relatively heavy bullets at subsonic velocity. I'm running a higher sectional density, you have a larger area on the bullet base. Both have influence on the nature of loads that are successful.

Don't know what alloy you're using on the bullets, but it need not be hard. 30:1 works well with what I'm doing, YMMV.

Good luck.


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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I'm using air cooled WW alloy, and rarely add any tin. WW is about right for this application, although at +P pressures sometimes heat treating it helps.


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