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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,382 |
Having recently learned that the oil finish I've painstakingly applied to my rifle stocks is bad, and since I am finishing a walnut stock the question begs to be answered, "What is the best finish for a walnut stock?"
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchive99/1_20waltcunfin.htmlI have used it on about a dozen stocks with satisfaction. One thing for sure, 6 months after you do it you won't see any pores looking back at you. RAN
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Horrible advice at every step... It will add a ton of time and produce an inferior product... period... This was state of the art a long time ago... before better finishes, fresher oils, poorer wood, and better understanding of the science behind it all.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Horrible advice at every step... Yeah, your advice is so much more helpful. You should be proud.
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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It is. and he should be. His advise has been given many times, just not right here. He's likely gotten bored with giving it to dumshits who won't use it.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Why be proud when you can be an azzhole. Seldom posts anything useful muchless noncritical, never tolerant of methods other than his own.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Why be proud when you can be an azzhole. Seldom posts anything useful muchless noncritical, never tolerant of methods other than his own. Truer words were never spoken.
Old Corps
Semper Fi
Get off my lawn.
FJB
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Well, the "Dumbfecta" of finishing have spoken!
If Craigster, Gunswhizzer, and snyper are for it I know I am exactly right for speaking against it...
I have had dozens of folks make sample boards when finishing stocks to see what they like. I almost always have them do a sanded-in sample for comparison. Not one every chooses sanded-in finishes after comparisons.
As I have posted dozens of times:
Buy a tiny container of spar varnish and about 4 ounces of high quality oil at a paint or art store. Liberally coat the stock with straight spar varnish and wipe DRY after about 10-15 minutes of soaking. Repeat.
Refill tiny varnish container with oil and repeat the coats.
Depending on the wood and freshness of the oil the finish should be building nicely by the fourth coat. Keep applying coats until you like it.
Keep topping off varnish with plain oil.
Polish with extra fine Bear-Tex pads and wax after allowing a good long curing time.
Quick, easy, quite weather-proof, deep, and as lustrous as you could ask for. Light-years better than sanded in...
ALWAYS make a sample board or twelve to test your wood against several different finishes. With open-pored wood sanded-in finishes always look like garbage. Against tight-pored wood they do not look as bad, but involve a lot more work and never look as good...
NEVER trust anyone's finish without trying it first.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Why be proud when you can be an azzhole. Seldom posts anything useful muchless noncritical, never tolerant of methods other than his own. Show me a single error in any post I have made... want me to post some of your dandies?
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Why be proud when you can be an azzhole. Seldom posts anything useful muchless noncritical, never tolerant of methods other than his own. Truer words were never spoken. Same question...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Horrible advice at every step... Yeah, your advice is so much more helpful. You should be proud. Breath in... Breath out... Keep at it, you will be smart enough to handle that one on your own at some point...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Having recently learned that the oil finish I've painstakingly applied to my rifle stocks is bad, and since I am finishing a walnut stock the question begs to be answered, "What is the best finish for a walnut stock?"
Old Corps
Semper Fi
Get off my lawn.
FJB
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Horrible advice at every step... Yeah, your advice is so much more helpful. You should be proud. Breath in... Breath out... Keep at it, you will be smart enough to handle that one on your own at some point... You're just mad because you know what I said is true, so now you resort to your middle school intellect.
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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+1 Snyper, you nailed it. If he can't get his way he has a pre-adolesent tantrum attacking and belittling the poster.
Last edited by gunswizard; 11/29/16.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,382 |
Well, the "Dumbfecta" of finishing have spoken!
If Craigster, Gunswhizzer, and snyper are for it I know I am exactly right for speaking against it...
I have had dozens of folks make sample boards when finishing stocks to see what they like. I almost always have them do a sanded-in sample for comparison. Not one every chooses sanded-in finishes after comparisons.
As I have posted dozens of times:
Buy a tiny container of spar varnish and about 4 ounces of high quality oil at a paint or art store. Liberally coat the stock with straight spar varnish and wipe DRY after about 10-15 minutes of soaking. Repeat.
Refill tiny varnish container with oil and repeat the coats.
Depending on the wood and freshness of the oil the finish should be building nicely by the fourth coat. Keep applying coats until you like it.
Keep topping off varnish with plain oil.
Polish with extra fine Bear-Tex pads and wax after allowing a good long curing time.
Quick, easy, quite weather-proof, deep, and as lustrous as you could ask for. Light-years better than sanded in...
ALWAYS make a sample board or twelve to test your wood against several different finishes. With open-pored wood sanded-in finishes always look like garbage. Against tight-pored wood they do not look as bad, but involve a lot more work and never look as good...
NEVER trust anyone's finish without trying it first. Thanks Sitka. I've put on several coats of Spar Varnish. I still have 1/2 gallon of high quality oil. I'm glad it will still be of some use. I've used oil since about 1960 when I finished a Herter's "C" grade varmint stock. That took me many months to finish to the satisfaction of a older sibling.
Last edited by Bugger; 11/29/16.
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Old oil is a problem... adding it to any finish is almost always a mistake. I suggest getting a small quantity of high grade fresh oil from a paint or art supply store. It will cure reliably and save many headaches...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
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+1 Snyper, you nailed it. If he can't get his way he has a pre-adolesent tantrum attacking and belittling the poster. Tantrum? Wow! Sensitive without having added a thing positive to the thread...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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That is an outstanding example of great work and a fine thread.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Horrible advice at every step... Yeah, your advice is so much more helpful. You should be proud. Breath in... Breath out... Keep at it, you will be smart enough to handle that one on your own at some point... You're just mad because you know what I said is true, so now you resort to your middle school intellect. Let's see... you have added nothing and not shown a thing wrong that I have posted and it is my middle school intellect creating a problem? Breath in, Breath out... You will get it some day.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
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Well, the "Dumbfecta" of finishing have spoken!
If Craigster, Gunswhizzer, and snyper are for it I know I am exactly right for speaking against it...
I have had dozens of folks make sample boards when finishing stocks to see what they like. I almost always have them do a sanded-in sample for comparison. Not one every chooses sanded-in finishes after comparisons.
As I have posted dozens of times:
Buy a tiny container of spar varnish and about 4 ounces of high quality oil at a paint or art store. Liberally coat the stock with straight spar varnish and wipe DRY after about 10-15 minutes of soaking. Repeat.
Refill tiny varnish container with oil and repeat the coats.
Depending on the wood and freshness of the oil the finish should be building nicely by the fourth coat. Keep applying coats until you like it.
Keep topping off varnish with plain oil.
Polish with extra fine Bear-Tex pads and wax after allowing a good long curing time.
Quick, easy, quite weather-proof, deep, and as lustrous as you could ask for. Light-years better than sanded in...
ALWAYS make a sample board or twelve to test your wood against several different finishes. With open-pored wood sanded-in finishes always look like garbage. Against tight-pored wood they do not look as bad, but involve a lot more work and never look as good...
NEVER trust anyone's finish without trying it first. Thank you Sitka, I shall save that and give it a whirl when I get around to redoing my stock. Simple enough to be worth the time. Appreciated.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I don't flame other posters whose ideas don't agree with mine. Check some of your posts and report back to the group Mr. Oracle,all knowing, all seeing fount of all knowledge gunsmithing. Manners are something you obviously know nothing about, other posters in this thread are telling you the same. Perhaps one day that'll penetrate your thick skull.
Last edited by gunswizard; 11/30/16.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Methinks y'all protesteth too much. Art's advice is the most cogent, well thought out, backed up by experience advice you're likely to encounter on the internet. He is simply a man who doesn't suffer fools gladly, and is blunt about it. If you read his old posts you'll see that he is open to new ideas and respectful of counter-intuitive techniques that yield nice final products. It's when people start narrowmindedly espousing techniques based on false science, old wive's tales, and advertising claims that the harsh truth comes out. He is merely trying to provide free advice- try that with your doctor, lawyer, CPA the next time you see him. Personally, I don't care if my doctor has a pisspoor bedside manner as long as he cures my disease.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Crass behavior is never trumped by knowledge or experience. Never had a problem with his advise, the guy seems to never have heard of the golden rule. It's not his place to run roughshod over others, I don't care about his past bahavior he's one of the biggest boors on this forum.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Well, the "Dumbfecta" of finishing have spoken!
If Craigster, Gunswhizzer, and snyper are for it I know I am exactly right for speaking against it...
I have had dozens of folks make sample boards when finishing stocks to see what they like. I almost always have them do a sanded-in sample for comparison. Not one every chooses sanded-in finishes after comparisons.
As I have posted dozens of times:
Buy a tiny container of spar varnish and about 4 ounces of high quality oil at a paint or art store. Liberally coat the stock with straight spar varnish and wipe DRY after about 10-15 minutes of soaking. Repeat.
Refill tiny varnish container with oil and repeat the coats.
Depending on the wood and freshness of the oil the finish should be building nicely by the fourth coat. Keep applying coats until you like it.
Keep topping off varnish with plain oil.
Polish with extra fine Bear-Tex pads and wax after allowing a good long curing time.
Quick, easy, quite weather-proof, deep, and as lustrous as you could ask for. Light-years better than sanded in...
ALWAYS make a sample board or twelve to test your wood against several different finishes. With open-pored wood sanded-in finishes always look like garbage. Against tight-pored wood they do not look as bad, but involve a lot more work and never look as good...
NEVER trust anyone's finish without trying it first. As much as I hate to interrupt a perfectly good pissing match, I'd like to hear a bit more detail. Any preference on the type/brand of oil? Drying times between coats? I've used a couple different methods that have produced good results but im always looking for a better way to skin the cat.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Given the perpetual arguments here, I'm guessing one's specific intentions should be more clearly spelled out on this subject. I.e. is one finishing a stock, sealing a stock, or both? There are any number of methods and products for putting an attractive and durable finish on wood.
If sealing is the goal, one might do better to explore the methods employed by knife makers to seal their bone/wood scales. Their products are exposed to heavy use, water, and any number of cleaning agents or solvents. Their methods typically involve heat, vacuum, pressure, and any of several relatively inert filling/sealing compounds. There are several commercial houses for these services, as most of us do not possess the equipment and materials to accomplish these jobs.
Living and hunting primarily in eastern Or and the arid west where humidity is seldom mentioned, I go with what I consider an attractive oil finish, typically having 20+ hand rubbed applications and call it good. Were I doing Mt. Vaialeale, in Hawaii, with 460" of annual precip, I'd likely go with an initial commercial sealing, and then apply my finish of choice. Sadly in that latter instance, I'd probably end up going with one of those horrid plastic stocks.
Last edited by 1minute; 11/30/16.
1Minute
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 10,382 |
Old oil is a problem... adding it to any finish is almost always a mistake. I suggest getting a small quantity of high grade fresh oil from a paint or art supply store. It will cure reliably and save many headaches... The oil I have in quantity is not old. I do have an old bottle of Tru-oil though - not sure why I still have that bottle. One of my things I hope to be good at, in retirement, is building furniture, thus the quantity of oil. My son is a wood craftsman who is in much demand. I'm following in his footsteps, hopefully. Working wood is very pleasing way to spend the day. Especially in the next few months of blowing snow.
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,750
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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If Craigster, Gunswhizzer, and snyper are for it I know I am exactly right for speaking against it...
Never said I was for it, or, against it...
Old Corps
Semper Fi
Get off my lawn.
FJB
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I have Newell's book "Gunstock Finishing and Care" and if I remember correctly good grade oil has a shelf life of about a year. He cautions that includes time on the seller's shelf so you want to buy from a source that has good turnover. I've had some luck with old oil on stuff that doesn't matter but I'm not taking any chances considering the time and effort that goes into finishing a gunstock. He considered tung and boiled linseed about equivalent. I don't notice a difference anyway. He also liked a spar varnish finish rubbed down to the desired look. Old book, polyurethane was just coming on so he might've liked that for the clarity. Now back to our regularly scheduled argument. 
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,616 |
Well, the "Dumbfecta" of finishing have spoken!
If Craigster, Gunswhizzer, and snyper are for it I know I am exactly right for speaking against it...
I have had dozens of folks make sample boards when finishing stocks to see what they like. I almost always have them do a sanded-in sample for comparison. Not one every chooses sanded-in finishes after comparisons.
As I have posted dozens of times:
Buy a tiny container of spar varnish and about 4 ounces of high quality oil at a paint or art store. Liberally coat the stock with straight spar varnish and wipe DRY after about 10-15 minutes of soaking. Repeat.
Refill tiny varnish container with oil and repeat the coats.
Depending on the wood and freshness of the oil the finish should be building nicely by the fourth coat. Keep applying coats until you like it.
Keep topping off varnish with plain oil.
Polish with extra fine Bear-Tex pads and wax after allowing a good long curing time.
Quick, easy, quite weather-proof, deep, and as lustrous as you could ask for. Light-years better than sanded in...
ALWAYS make a sample board or twelve to test your wood against several different finishes. With open-pored wood sanded-in finishes always look like garbage. Against tight-pored wood they do not look as bad, but involve a lot more work and never look as good...
NEVER trust anyone's finish without trying it first. As much as I hate to interrupt a perfectly good pissing match, I'd like to hear a bit more detail. Any preference on the type/brand of oil? Drying times between coats? I've used a couple different methods that have produced good results but im always looking for a better way to skin the cat. This is simply a quick and dirty way to get a decent finish without epoxy. I generally use epoxy for my personal stocks and have written up my methods here many times. But back to this method... the idea is to use a good varnish and after the first few coats start thinning it with plain oil. Over the course of finishing the stock you achieve a mostly water resistant finish with an easily repaired (mostly) oil top coat that is all bonded together neatly. Helmsman Spar Urethane was the last brand I used and it is good. I have tried many and never have had any issues. The oil should be straight oil, no "Finish" or blends, just oil. It makes no difference if it is linseed or tung. Art shops carry it for custom mixing oil colors. The first couple coats can go on pretty fast, but let them dry overnight after the second coat. Once the surface is sealed and the pores filled the wiped down surface will cure very fast and you can put new coats on as soon as the surface feels dry... That can be as little as an hour. Applying the finish liberally, letting it set for 10-15 minutes before wiping DRY with a clean, soft cloth is much faster than rubbing out drops. The final buffing out should be delayed for about a month for final curing. Another concern about the quality of the waterproofing is the differential created between the barrel channel and the outside of the forearm. If the interior is completely sealed with glass bedding for example and the exterior is imperfect the outside can either gain or lose water causing the stock to move to or from the barrel... Keep the finish the same all over the stock, in other words.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,616
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,616 |
Well, the "Dumbfecta" of finishing have spoken!
If Craigster, Gunswhizzer, and snyper are for it I know I am exactly right for speaking against it...
I have had dozens of folks make sample boards when finishing stocks to see what they like. I almost always have them do a sanded-in sample for comparison. Not one every chooses sanded-in finishes after comparisons.
As I have posted dozens of times:
Buy a tiny container of spar varnish and about 4 ounces of high quality oil at a paint or art store. Liberally coat the stock with straight spar varnish and wipe DRY after about 10-15 minutes of soaking. Repeat.
Refill tiny varnish container with oil and repeat the coats.
Depending on the wood and freshness of the oil the finish should be building nicely by the fourth coat. Keep applying coats until you like it.
Keep topping off varnish with plain oil.
Polish with extra fine Bear-Tex pads and wax after allowing a good long curing time.
Quick, easy, quite weather-proof, deep, and as lustrous as you could ask for. Light-years better than sanded in...
ALWAYS make a sample board or twelve to test your wood against several different finishes. With open-pored wood sanded-in finishes always look like garbage. Against tight-pored wood they do not look as bad, but involve a lot more work and never look as good...
NEVER trust anyone's finish without trying it first. Thank you Sitka, I shall save that and give it a whirl when I get around to redoing my stock. Simple enough to be worth the time. Appreciated. You are most welcome.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,616
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,616 |
If Craigster, Gunswhizzer, and snyper are for it I know I am exactly right for speaking against it...
Never said I was for it, or, against it... So you were just attacking me...again... and I am the bad guy... got it...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Deliberate mis-spelling is not being the bad guy? Better look yourself in the mirror and check your own posts before making accusations of being attacked. It is the uncivil manner in which you talk to people who do not share your views that is the issue here. Hoping this time you do "get it". Your knowledge and experience are valued and respected, the abraisive manner in which you express yourself that's objectionable. And answer me this question what am I for? I never offered any information about stock finishing in this thread.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2003
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Well, the "Dumbfecta" of finishing have spoken!
If Craigster, Gunswhizzer, and snyper are for it I know I am exactly right for speaking against it...
I have had dozens of folks make sample boards when finishing stocks to see what they like. I almost always have them do a sanded-in sample for comparison. Not one every chooses sanded-in finishes after comparisons.
As I have posted dozens of times:
Buy a tiny container of spar varnish and about 4 ounces of high quality oil at a paint or art store. Liberally coat the stock with straight spar varnish and wipe DRY after about 10-15 minutes of soaking. Repeat.
Refill tiny varnish container with oil and repeat the coats.
Depending on the wood and freshness of the oil the finish should be building nicely by the fourth coat. Keep applying coats until you like it.
Keep topping off varnish with plain oil.
Polish with extra fine Bear-Tex pads and wax after allowing a good long curing time.
Quick, easy, quite weather-proof, deep, and as lustrous as you could ask for. Light-years better than sanded in...
ALWAYS make a sample board or twelve to test your wood against several different finishes. With open-pored wood sanded-in finishes always look like garbage. Against tight-pored wood they do not look as bad, but involve a lot more work and never look as good...
NEVER trust anyone's finish without trying it first. As much as I hate to interrupt a perfectly good pissing match, I'd like to hear a bit more detail. Any preference on the type/brand of oil? Drying times between coats? I've used a couple different methods that have produced good results but im always looking for a better way to skin the cat. This is simply a quick and dirty way to get a decent finish without epoxy. I generally use epoxy for my personal stocks and have written up my methods here many times. But back to this method... the idea is to use a good varnish and after the first few coats start thinning it with plain oil. Over the course of finishing the stock you achieve a mostly water resistant finish with an easily repaired (mostly) oil top coat that is all bonded together neatly. Helmsman Spar Urethane was the last brand I used and it is good. I have tried many and never have had any issues. The oil should be straight oil, no "Finish" or blends, just oil. It makes no difference if it is linseed or tung. Art shops carry it for custom mixing oil colors. The first couple coats can go on pretty fast, but let them dry overnight after the second coat. Once the surface is sealed and the pores filled the wiped down surface will cure very fast and you can put new coats on as soon as the surface feels dry... That can be as little as an hour. Applying the finish liberally, letting it set for 10-15 minutes before wiping DRY with a clean, soft cloth is much faster than rubbing out drops. The final buffing out should be delayed for about a month for final curing. Another concern about the quality of the waterproofing is the differential created between the barrel channel and the outside of the forearm. If the interior is completely sealed with glass bedding for example and the exterior is imperfect the outside can either gain or lose water causing the stock to move to or from the barrel... Keep the finish the same all over the stock, in other words. Appreciate the info.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,045 |
For many years I considered Epifanes to be the best, and still do. But the last couple of years I've been using Helmsman Spar Urethane for the finish on my "professional grade" croquet mallets. (A curious sideline that generates $300 a pop, and I have numbers 44 and 45 in process right now, since 2014.) Believe me, a varnish has to be tough to go through a season of hard play and come out looking good. As a result, I've been switching over from Epi's for everything but stuff that will live outdoors- for that Epifanes still rocks. (High solids content and superior UV protection.)
I don't care for polyurethane. Low solids content and inferior UV protection compared to quality spar varnish, plus it cures harder and is less yielding than SV which could possibly lead to crazing/cracking. SV was/is formulated for use on wooden spars (masts, booms, etc.) that constantly bend and flex even when the boat is at rest, not to mention live in environments no gunstock would ever have to endure.
Anecdote: A buddy called me this afternoon looking for help this Saturday in un-stepping the 40 foot wooden mast out of his boat in preparation for winter storage. My reply that I'll be 100 miles away deer hunting met with a chilly response. Oh well! Shouldn't have waited 'til deer season to ask a deer hunter to help with anything. Another deer hunting buddy is actually getting married this weekend. I had to ask him "What the hell were you thinking? Now your hunting seasons will be interrupted every year for the rest of your life, unless you plan on bailing on anniversaries- in which case you won't have that problem for very long!"
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202 |
Horrible advice at every step... Yeah, your advice is so much more helpful. You should be proud. Breath in... Breath out... Keep at it, you will be smart enough to handle that one on your own at some point... You're just mad because you know what I said is true, so now you resort to your middle school intellect. Let's see... you have added nothing and not shown a thing wrong that I have posted and it is my middle school intellect creating a problem? Breath in, Breath out... You will get it some day. Repeating the same old mindless BS won't change anything. Thinking it will just shows you're delusional and lack originality.
Last edited by Snyper; 11/30/16.
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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