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I asked this on the gunsmith forum but received no answers.

I'm currently finishing a walnut stock.

While I've been finishing my rifle stocks in tung oil, linseed oil, Truoil, I read that these are poor choices. What's the best finish to use?

I don't often hunt in the rain, but do at times. I also don't hunt much in negative 20 degrees or lower but sometimes do.

I'm probably over cautious when hunting and most of the dings are from the safe.
So what finish should I use? I like the oil finish look btw.

Thanks!


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Custom Pro Oil from Brownells is a Tung oil/urethane product that works great. It's slow drying, so I use Tru-oil for in between coats.

This Boyd Jon Sundra birch laminated stock was finished that way, using Fiebings dark brown leather dye to color the finish NOT the wood. I learned that process from a master stock maker who worked at Fajen's back in the day, has since been self-employed for years.

This finish is super tough, has stood the test of time. This gun has been hunted for at least 8 years, has killed several NM pronghorns, a bunch of WT's and hogs. And still looks good; I've never touched up the finish.

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If you want a beautiful satin finish use Dailys Seafin Teak oil. Easy to apply, wipe on with a rag, let sit 10-15 min. then wipe excess and repeat multiple times after each 12-24 hour drying period. The stuff is formulated for use on boats' bright work ie exposed wood so lasts a long time. Also contains UV inhibitors.


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Dirtfarmer,

I assume that you added the liquid leather dye to the liquid Custom Pro Oil before application.

I looked up Fiebing's Leather Dye and I see it comes in both an alcohol-based formula and a water-based formula. I assume that you used the alcohol-based formula. Am I correct?

Thanks for the info. I really like the looks of your rifle.

Also, did you apply that to bare wood, or over an existing finish?

Last edited by nifty-two-fifty; 11/26/16.

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The only time I mixed it was to work on the checkering, using a tooth brush.

I soak Pro Oil into the raw, perfectly prepped wood, 400 grit wet sanding until forming a slurry. As it gets thick, I wipe cross grain and allow it to dry 24 hrs. Did that twice.

I then applied around 8-10 Tru Oil coats, 4-0 steel wool between coats to fully fill the pores. Tru Oil dries faster, speeds up the process.

Then I lightly coated the dry finish with alcohol based Fiebings, allowing it to dry (doesn't take long). Use a glove, it will stain your skin. I then apply Pro Oil, wiping with a single layer blue shop towel. A couple of those and it's done.

I clamp a large punch, vertical, in a vice to use as a pivot for the stock, using the front action screw hole. I can swing it around without touching the finish, can carefully flip it over, grasping the screw I put in the front sling swivel hole and gripping the taped pad.

It takes some practice with the Fiebings, but works well. Fiebings has to be applied to the dry finish, not the raw wood. The final coats of Pro Oil cover the Fiebings. Pro Oil is tougher/harder than Tru-Oil. Brownells has it.

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Dirtfarmer,

Thanks for the details. You got good results.


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It's hard to cover everything in one post.

PM me with anything I failed to cover or if you have a question. I take no credit, give it all the the guy who taught me. He is world renoun, working on H&H, Purdy and other high end guns, accomplished with metal and wood. His work is breathtaking.

The blue shop towel trick may be the slickest technique of anything I mentioned. The finish looks hand rubbed, but isn't.

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Marine Spar Varnish, properly buffed.

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That's all I've used for quite a few years now.


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I generally use Acraglas on the inside and tung oil outside. I don't see much rain, however.


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Originally Posted by TBREW401
Marine Spar Varnish, properly buffed.

Would appreciate details on application, how you buff, etc.

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Buff with 0000 steel wool when allowed to properly dry.
Apply with a soft brush or a foam brush, with the grain in light coats. Stir the can every time you go with the brush.
I use at least three coats.

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Buff with 0000 steel wool when allowed to properly dry.
Apply with a soft brush or a foam brush, with the grain in light coats. Stir the can every time you go with the brush.
I use at least three coats, allowing drying time between.

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Originally Posted by Bugger
I asked this on the gunsmith forum but received no answers.

I'm currently finishing a walnut stock.

While I've been finishing my rifle stocks in tung oil, linseed oil, Truoil, I read that these are poor choices. What's the best finish to use?

I don't often hunt in the rain, but do at times. I also don't hunt much in negative 20 degrees or lower but sometimes do.

I'm probably over cautious when hunting and most of the dings are from the safe.
So what finish should I use? I like the oil finish look btw.

Thanks!

Everybody has their own method , I'm like you and like oil finishes, easy to fix too when a scratch appears. I used to use try oil but stopped because for me it dried too fast .. Now I use 70/20 tung and linseed mix. Works for me and no problem with the weather .


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No point in mixing tung oil and linseed oil. They have nearly identical properties, and as such are often used interchangeably by the folks who make wood finishing products. Anything to the contrary is urban myth.

Repairing a scratch on a stock that was finished with oil is as time consuming and laborious as repairing a scratch in a barrier finish, if done so as to be perfectly invisible. No real advantage to an oil finish in that regard.

I've been doing stock work for 40 years, and believe me when I say I tried what seemingly is every stock finish known to man. (Said half in jest- no one can try them all.) Inserted into that experience was a half lifetime career as a yacht carpenter- which will teach a guy a lot about weather impermeable finishes. From all that, I've taken away a couple basic observations: oil finishes are warm, pleasing, and certainly apropos for a gun that will spend its life being admired a lot, shot occasionally, and hunted with in fair weather. If you want real protection from the elements, on a gun that will see use in all manner of environments, nothing beats a barrier finish (or better yet, a synthetic stock).

Anymore, I just do a barrier finish. My finish of choice is straight spar varnish. If done properly it can be as aesthetically pleasing as a "hand rubbed oil finish" and provide great protection from water fenestration (although no finish is perfect in that regard). No matter what approach one takes, finishing a stock is a time consuming proposition. Figure at least as much time to finish a project as it took to build it, and often much more. There are no shortcuts or magic formulae in this game if you wish for a world class finish.

A properly applied varnish finish, consisting of maybe 10 coats block sanded between coats, rubbed out at the end and finally waxed can fool laymen into believing they are holding a supremely well done "oil finished" stock. Example:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Custom Savage 1899 I recently built (.22 Hi Power takedown). Ten coats spar varnish.

Stock finishing opinions are like a**holes- everybody has one. It's just that so many guys fail to investigate the science involved or conduct their own experiments, relying instead on myth, old wive's tales, advertising claims, and advice handed down by Pappy (originally based upon same).

Last thought: Many say that gun companies and government arsenals used oil finishes since forever and they held up just fine. Remember though, those folks employed oil finishes not because they were the very best available but because they were quick and cheap.


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I started using spar varnish about 30 years ago, after getting to know many of the top professional stockmakers in the business and finding they used it almost universally. They were also kind enough to explain why, and the reasons are the same you just listed, with a couple of other minor details.


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Someone on here awhile back mentioned he used the Mr. Clean Magic Erasers to buff out a stock for reducing the gloss


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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
No point in mixing tung oil and linseed oil. They have nearly identical properties, and as such are often used interchangeably by the folks who make wood finishing products. Anything to the contrary is urban myth.

Repairing a scratch on a stock that was finished with oil is as time consuming and laborious as repairing a scratch in a barrier finish, if done so as to be perfectly invisible. No real advantage to an oil finish in that regard.

I've been doing stock work for 40 years, and believe me when I say I tried what seemingly is every stock finish known to man. (Said half in jest- no one can try them all.) Inserted into that experience was a half lifetime career as a yacht carpenter- which will teach a guy a lot about weather impermeable finishes. From all that, I've taken away a couple basic observations: oil finishes are warm, pleasing, and certainly apropos for a gun that will spend its life being admired a lot, shot occasionally, and hunted with in fair weather. If you want real protection from the elements, on a gun that will see use in all manner of environments, nothing beats a barrier finish (or better yet, a synthetic stock).

Anymore, I just do a barrier finish. My finish of choice is straight spar varnish. If done properly it can be as aesthetically pleasing as a "hand rubbed oil finish" and provide great protection from water fenestration (although no finish is perfect in that regard). No matter what approach one takes, finishing a stock is a time consuming proposition. Figure at least as much time to finish a project as it took to build it, and often much more. There are no shortcuts or magic formulae in this game if you wish for a world class finish.

A properly applied varnish finish, consisting of maybe 10 coats block sanded between coats, rubbed out at the end and finally waxed can fool laymen into believing they are holding a supremely well done "oil finished" stock. Example:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Custom Savage 1899 I recently built (.22 Hi Power takedown). Ten coats spar varnish.

Stock finishing opinions are like a**holes- everybody has one. It's just that so many guys fail to investigate the science involved or conduct their own experiments, relying instead on myth, old wive's tales, advertising claims, and advice handed down by Pappy (originally based upon same).

Last thought: Many say that gun companies and government arsenals used oil finishes since forever and they held up just fine. Remember though, those folks employed oil finishes not because they were the very best available but because they were quick and cheap.


Nice job and not to hijack the thread, but how about a few details re: the custom Hi-power?


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Yeah, I saw that about those erasers and ran out and bought some. I didn't care for them as they were a little too fine of a "grit".

Details re: the above rifle. I bought the bare rusty receiver at a gun show for a pittance.
[Linked Image]
After lots of filing and abrasives backed by elbow grease it became what you see. Parts were accumulated from a myriad of sources, a minty barrel was found, some nice straight grained walnut came my way (but the fore arm is a factory original). Everything slowly came together, and she will put 5 into 1/2" at 50, 1 1/4- 1 1/2 at 100. Grip cap is solid ebony- I like the round knob look, especially with a schnabel fore end. All the steel bits I rust blued myself.

I got a factory letter based upon the serial number on the receiver, and lo-and-behold it had started out life as a .22 Hi Power originally, in November 1913. Kismet that I had made it into a .22HP myself.

Last edited by gnoahhh; 11/30/16.

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I have used equal parts Boiled linseed oil,turpentine or mineral spirits and spar varnish with good results.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I started using spar varnish about 30 years ago, after getting to know many of the top professional stockmakers in the business and finding they used it almost universally. They were also kind enough to explain why, and the reasons are the same you just listed, with a couple of other minor details.
Chic worthing used Tru Oil last I knew as did Jack Belk. Dennis Olsen of Plains MT used Varathane for years. All are better than just good at stock work.

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So gnoahhh and Mule Deer, an inquiring mind wants to know what is the best spar varnish? Or are they the same?


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IMO, the "best bang for the buck" is Helmsman Spar Urethane. Pretty commonly found in hardware/big box stores. Use the Gloss- better UV protection than semi-gloss- and besides, you'll likely be rubbing it out in the end anyway. Rub the gloss out so it's dull, then use paste wax to bring back a pleasing luster.

If you want the very best, spring for a can of Epifanes spar varnish. Be prepared to be shocked when the man wants paid for it though. But, it has very high solids content and excellent UV protection. It is the darling of the brightwork finishers locally. (Brightwork is the exterior wooden trim on sail boats and power boats.) No greater test of varnish exists in the world. Again with the Gloss, if you will.


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Many years ago my old Maine hunting guide refinished the stock of his well worn Winchester 94 .32 Spl. with spar varnish. This was a rifle that was out in all kind of weather every day during the deer season, a real testament to the protection afforded by a spar varnish finish.

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Should spar varnishes be thinned at all for the first couple of coats to get better "penetration?"

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I don't, some do. I think it's six of one 1/2 dozen of another. The first coat soaks into the wood pretty good regardless.


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Originally Posted by DakotaDeer
Should spar varnishes be thinned at all for the first couple of coats to get better "penetration?"


NEGATIVE!
NOT!
NO!
NEVER!

Wood is a dandy filter and when finish is laid on it some parties suck in more finish than others... the finish gets left on the surface while the solvent goes deep...

Test it yourself sometime by coating one side of a board with thinned finish and the other with straight product. After allowing a good long drying time cut the board in half. You will not be able to see a difference in penetration.


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I think we're saying the same thing, Art. Since there's no better "soakage" with thinned first coats, there's also no worse soakage (of the actual resins and solids). The end result is the same- it's just that it takes more coats to achieve a decent build when one wastes one's time thinning the initial coats. The "bite" of the first coat will be the same, what varies is the quantity left behind in/on the surface. That's pretty much why I didn't make an issue of it above. No harm, no foul, just more work. If I'm wrong about that, I would like to learn why!

I do sometimes thin the last couple coats on a many-coated project, but that's due to my brushing technique. I hang an object such as a stock and flow the varnish on in heavy coats, letting it flow down and collect in big drips on the bottom edge. I thin the viscosity of the last coat or two to get maximum flow to eliminate drips and sags as much as possible in those final stages. I dodge the drips away until the varnish sets up enough to stop flowing, usually around 20 minutes.

Marine finishers have a saying that there is no such thing as a "last coat". Boat guys are continually sanding and re-varnishing (or they should be anyway) as maintaining the brightwork on a boat is a never ending chore. Thank god it's not the same for gun owners.

Last edited by gnoahhh; 12/01/16.

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Like Gnoahhh I have spent a lot of time trying to keep up with the brightwork on boats. I have built a few, eaking out a living in boatyards in my '20's and have long owned a 35' cutter which I built in the late '70's. Teak decks, hatches, rubrails, bulwarks, etc, etc. require a huge amount of effort to maintain here in the northwest and it is even worse in the sunbelt.

A clear epoxy base followed by a dozen or so coats of a high quality spar varnish holds up well - far better than varnish alone, especially if the varnish is followed by a half dozen topcoats of a two part clear urethane such as Awl Grip (it is a bitch to remove though and I have moved away from this technique). I don't have a favorite - there are several really good brands although I believe the Epifanes may well be the best I have personally tried. I am a believer in thinning the first coat finding it does appear to improve adhesion - YMMV. Thinning the last couple coats will allow a smoother finish.

In years past some epoxy coatings fogged in the sun, ruining the finish. I have not seen this in recent years and there are several epoxy resins now built with this application in mind.

The absolute best final coat is a full boat cover (with a great deal of ventilation built in).

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Yeah, West System 207 or 209 (I don't remember the number) is formulated with a viscosity and slow cure time to make it viable as a "sealer" coat. We used a fair amount of it. But as OC said, you must put multiple layers of varnish over it as it has almost zero UV resistance. It's been a few years now since I left that game and indeed there may have been advances made that I'm not aware of.

Around ten years ago I finished a huge slab of redwood for a local client. Roughly 6'x 3½'x 4" thick, with its natural edge. I actually flattened it by hand, then applied 10 coats Epifanes top, bottom, and sides. He mounted it as conversation piece/table on the deck behind his house. I warned him about getting a cover for it but he ignored me. Sure as sh*t, three years later the finish was failing. I labored to restore it and again suggested a cover. (Hey, he paid me handsomely and I really didn't mind the side money, but still...) At that point we got a local sail loft to custom fabricate a cover made of opaque sail material, and now it still remains quite presentable. UV light is the enemy of all and sundry finishes.


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I have 6-7 rifles and shotguns here that I have made stocks for.I used Art's Spar Varnish and high grade tung oil method and they all came out perfect to me.Yes the saying is you are never happy with the final coat.You just get to the pont where you are satsified with it


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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
I think we're saying the same thing, Art. Since there's no better "soakage" with thinned first coats, there's also no worse soakage (of the actual resins and solids). The end result is the same- it's just that it takes more coats to achieve a decent build when one wastes one's time thinning the initial coats. The "bite" of the first coat will be the same, what varies is the quantity left behind in/on the surface. That's pretty much why I didn't make an issue of it above. No harm, no foul, just more work. If I'm wrong about that, I would like to learn why!

I do sometimes thin the last couple coats on a many-coated project, but that's due to my brushing technique. I hang an object such as a stock and flow the varnish on in heavy coats, letting it flow down and collect in big drips on the bottom edge. I thin the viscosity of the last coat or two to get maximum flow to eliminate drips and sags as much as possible in those final stages. I dodge the drips away until the varnish sets up enough to stop flowing, usually around 20 minutes.

Marine finishers have a saying that there is no such thing as a "last coat". Boat guys are continually sanding and re-varnishing (or they should be anyway) as maintaining the brightwork on a boat is a never ending chore. Thank god it's not the same for gun owners.


I was only referring to solvents to increase finish penetration. Solvents do wonderful things for making finish easier to apply some times.

Used with two-part epoxy though they seriously diminish water-proofing because they leave big pores as they work their way out through the finish.





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Tag. I know I'll be glad I did some day.


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