Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Tikka T-3 grouping

Why do Tikka T-3's shoot so darned well? I have had them in 204, 223, 243, 308 and all have shot under one inch for 5 shot groups and usually nearer one-half inch for 5 shot groups, and that is with nothing more than adjusting the trigger weight to where I like it.

Everything about them seems to defy what has been conventional knowledge about what it takes to make a rifle group well. I know that they have Sako barrels and Sako triggers, and that they have a relatively stiff receiver with the small magazine and small ejection port. But they have the small minimal contact recoil lug which only fits in a small grove in the receiver which seems to defy conventional thinking of how large and how much area a recoil lug needs. Everyone I have requires a long jump to the lands - another thing that goes against what has been thought to be a no-no all these years. Not only that but they seem to shoot any reasonable handload or quality factory ammo with no drama.

Do the Finns take more time and care in truing the receiver, making the barrels, fitting everything so it is true and square? I have spent more time than I want to think about trying to make other brands of rifles shoot like Tikka's do out of the box, sometimes to the point of having actions trued, replacing barrels, replacing triggers. What the heck does Tikka do that other manufacturers do not?

drover

I just recently got my first Tikka and I am also very impressed! Would like to know also.

HeavyBarrel

They have a simple stiff action, quality hammerforged barrel, great trigger and assembled with care. They obviously have great QC .

drover,

I don't know everything they do in the Sako/Tikka factory, because when I toured it, with several other writers, a year ago the Finns only revealed a few details. In fact they didn't allow us to take ANY photos in ANY part of the factory except the meeting room, which had never happened before on any of the factory tours I've taken in several countries. The others always allowed photos in at least some part of the actual production facility.

But a few things were revealed, some inadvertently. For one thing, it was as clean as any shooting-product factory I've ever visited, as clean as any optics factory, and cleaner than some. They also use more most advanced robotic machinery than any other factory I've visited, often just to move parts precisely from one station to another.

They also claim to lap the heavy-contour Sako/Tikka barrels to an astonishingly small variation in bore diameter. (I'm not going to look it up right now, but have the number somewhere in my notes.) The entire barrel-making process is done in-house, including stress-relieving--but aside from a quick look inside the door of the hammer-forging room, when the workers were all on break, they didn't really reveal much.

Sorry I can't provide more details than that, but based on what little I do know the Tikkas shoot so well due to meticulous manufacturing and attention to detail, using the latest advances in machinery.

Thanks John, your thoughts sum up what I have suspected. That and the fact that they seem to think out of the box a bit like the recoil lug system - one would think "that can't work" but it surely seems to work very well, I suspect that it may have been a cost-saving step initially but it surely works.

drover

Does a Sako 85, or whatever their high end is now, shoot any better than a Tikka? I have never messed with either one. Modestly priced rifles seem to constantly be improving as far as accuracy. My son's Savage Axis Youth Model 7mm-08 is accurate well beyond it's cost and finish quality.

I have owned 2x Sako "85" and 1x "75" and none shot better than the dozen or so Tikka's I have owned over the years.

John,

Do you think that Tikkas really shoot any better than other rifles with modern hammer forged barrels? I'm wondering if there's more to the recent Tikka popularity than the product itself, in terms of quality/design, vs. another brand. I'm not sure that they shoot any better than other rifles in their price range.

My guess is that the T3 has a certain perceived quality (which is justified), along with good accuracy, and it attracts a certain buyer. In other words, a person willing to spend a little extra compared to a budget rifle. And maybe spend extra time looking for a good handload, or extra money trying more factory ammo. A buyer who spends more, certainly expects a higher level of performance? Many shooters who buy budget rifles seem to expect less, but we don't hear as much about those rifles even if they shoot well.

I've owned five Tikka T3 rifles, and had no complaints with any of them. They all shot great. But, truth be told, they didn't shoot any better or worse than the last few rifles I've owned from other manufacturers. Those include a 700 XCR II, Ruger RAR, Kimber Montana, Ruger MKII, Savage 116, another Savage 116, Browning BAR (old), Rem 760, and several AR rifles. Plus more that I've probably forgotten. I must be lucky!

Now, I have seen some friend's T3 rifles shoot so-so with factory ammo, and really no better or worse than any other modern rifle. Same with a Sako 85. Really no better, or worse, than any other decent bolt action. From what I've seen, the RAR shoots just as well as a Tikka but doesn't get nearly the attention.

And about 10 years ago, the Tikka T3 was considered a low cost budget rifle by many. Now, that same rifle seems to be in the mid-range, and all the rage. Funny to see it change.

Jason

Here is a video from the Sako/Tikka factory. Shows alot of what is done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU-HCjTF9SA

From 2014.. around 280 rifles produced each day.


I would guess CNC machinery keeping very tight tolerances, quality barrel, not trying to produce at max output.



If you need anything translated, note time, and i`ll translate it.

Jason,

Good question. I'll preface my answer by suggesting that factory ammo isn't a perfect way to judge a rifle's potential. While in general factory ammo is far better today than ever before, some is much better, and none is "tuned" to a specific rifle. I've seen the same ammo group great in one rifle and not in another.

I've also had excellent accuracy with various lower-priced rifles, and have written more than one article about them, including the Thompson/Center Venture In my experience it's close to Tikkas in out-of-the-box accuracy and trigger quality.

But would add some caveats to the other rifles on your list. While I've never encountered an inaccurate Remington 760 or 7600, accuracy has been on the order of three shots in an inch. That's good, but today not outstanding. Also, some of them need work on the forend to get there (the 7600's seem to have solved that) and the triggers also usually need work. Have encountered the same level of accuracy with BAR's--good, but not great.

While I've had excellent overall luck with a bunch of Remington 700's and a somewhat smaller number of Kimbers and Ruger 77 Mark II's, most have shot their best AFTER being rebedded with the barrel floated. The triggers also needed adjusting or modification.

Savages usually shoot well out of the box, but the barrels tend to be rough, to the point where I've started installing Dyna-Tek Bore Coat before shooting them the first time. This solves the problem, but their barrels are NOT as smooth as those on many other brands. The triggers can be a problem, though the Accu-Trigger helped considerably.

The Ruger Americans are very accurate, but the first models had such floppy stocks, the forend usually needed some rasp-work to really free-float the barrel. That problem was mostly solved with stiffer stocks a couple of years later, but a few occasionally need a little work. The triggers are decent out of the box, but usually need at least some adjusting and often a spring replacement to even approach out-of-the-box Tikka triggers. (While not directly related to accuracy, RAR magazines aren't as good as Tikka magazines. Some work fine, but others don't, and while RAR magazines can be fixed or replaced, they're a potential problem.)

I was hearing about Tikkas long before their recent popularity (and the introduction of the Ruger American) so they are not just the current darling. I suspect that's happening simply because more people have been buying them. This may sound obvious, but Tikka sales have zoomed up enormously in the past five years, and their primary market is the U.S. As a result more American shooters have either personally experienced Tikka out-of-the-box accuracy, or know somebody who has.

The other factor is the finely lapped heavy-contour barrels. While sporter-weight Tikka (and Sako) barrels often put 5 rounds (not just 3) in an inch or less, the lapped heavy-contour barrels will often put 5 into half an inch or so. Add them to rifles that have great trigger pulls and stock bedding right out of the box, and its no wonder Tikkas sell well, even though they're not priced like they used to be.

Even in "bargain" rifles, we apparently do have to pay for out of the box performance, which is what Tikkas offer. That may be due to the differences in attitudes between American and European shooters. In general, American rifle loonies expect to have to dink with new rifles, and in fact often seem to look forward to it. Europeans, on the other hand, expect to have rifles shoot well out of the box, and that's what Tikkas do.

Add to it, that most Europeans are limited to numbers of rifles that they are allowed to own.

Which means either they buy multibarrel rifles, ala Blaser R93, Mauser M03 etc etc..since number of barrels are not limited only the "action".

Or they buy a few quality rifles that involve no gunsmithing.

Excellent point, and one I've written about before. Plus, in many European countries, hunters have above-average incomes because it's more expensive to hunt than in some of the U.S. Consequently, hunters are willing to pay more for rifles, but expect accuracy, triggers, etc. comparable to American custom rifles.

I bought the wife a T-3X Superlite in 7mm-08 a couple of weeks ago. Had to get the stock shortened to fit her 5-3 frame. Got it back last Tuesday, and adjusted the trigger down to about 2.5#.

Just got a chance yesterday for our first range session. After 15 shots down the barrel, it is going to be a shooter, you can tell already. Very impressed with the slick action and overall fit and finish. Weighed 5-15 bare, and 7-3 with Talleys and a VX-6 2-12.

Biggest delta (really only delta) is the box length - take another quarter inch off the magazine spacer- sheesh, you can barely get 2.800" COL to fit the mag. We'll make it work, and it sure ain't no deal breaker especially with the 120 gr bullets we're working with.

I also have a RAR in 22-250, and there is no comparison when it comes to magazine function and overall fit, feel and finish. No comparison.

Ive got a Ruger M77 30/06 that is capable of 1/2" at 100 yds. I also have a tikka 270 that is capable of 1/2" at 100 yds. There is however night and day difference between the two rifles IMO.

My Ruger is glass bedded, trigger worked, Scope rings lapped, barrel dyna borecoated, and crown touched up. Load developement consisted of 3 different bullets, 2 powders, and a large number of loads with differing powder charges and seating depths. I did get there but it wasnt easy.

My first tikka I bought years ago I loaded 20 rounds with 2 different bullets, with varying powder charges! You can imagine my surprise when every load went under .64"

That was not what I had ever seen before! Not only that but it defied every thing I had read concerning conventional wisdom on reloading to achieve accuracy or mechanics of barrel harmonics and so on and so forth and yada yada yada!

Since my first tikka Ive acquired two more and all three rifles defy everything Ive read concerning how a firearm works and whats required to get there!

My conclusion of the matter is the Finns very likely have discovered that most rifle manufactures have been missing the true foundation of a rifle and have thus become expert entreprenuers in the art of finely applied bandaids.


Just my humble opinion



Trystan

Does putting the Tikka in a, stiffer/better/glass and pillar bedded, synthetic stock do anything for repeatable accuracy or is simply aesthetic? Understand that replacing the stock turns a 600.00 rifle into at least a 1000.00 rifle. Saw a Sako (Roughtech?) 7 series that had a fiberglass stock. Think the rifle was about 1000.00. Perhaps that is a bargain as well?

The groups I posted were shot with two 6.5x55 T3's. One is stainless in a walnut stock I bought off of Ebay that must have been a prototype. It's been bedded, both glass and pillar, and the barrel floated. It actually shot a little better when it was stock, I think.

My other one is a stock blue with synthetic stock. One will shoot some loads a little better than the other, and vise-versa, but both shoot very good.

It's always a luck of the draw type of thing as to getting a rifle/barrel combo that will produce very tight groups with some regularity, but the Tikka ups the chance significantly out of the box, I believe. Of course, so does handloading.

I had an individual from a very reputable after market stock company tell me he had never found a more dimensionally consistent rifle than the Tikkas.

There is something to be admired about their manufacturing process that has produced such accuracy and consistency.

I know everyone bitches about the Tikka stocks, but ever put one back together? They're a PIA to get back together. The recoil lug not being attached to the gun seems to make zero difference to me. They fit super tight in the stock, and I can't help but think it surely doesn't hurt the way they shoot. I've heard more than one person talk about messing up the accuracy by doing things like bedding a Tikka, or changing stocks. That's a 180 for most rifles, but it doesn't seem to count when talking Tikkas.

I've had quite a few T3 Lites over the years and there is no other consistent out of the box "shooter". No tweaking, bedding, filing, re-crowning, lapping barrels, sanding feed rails, buffing feed ramps, checking for proper screw length, candle/incense lighting needed. Many shun the "perceived" necessities of CRF, Model 70 "old style" triggers with no composite parts. There is a place for that too. But a Tikka T3X puts your average shooter well down the road to an accurate moderately light rifle.
I guess Sako/Tikka marches to a different "drummer" - which may be the result of pride in craftsmanship.

Well, I'm just glad we didn't have Tikkas back in my day.

I never would have learned how to do my own trigger jobs and "tweak" actions for best feeding, how to calculate the parimutuel odds on whether free floating, full length bedding or forend tip bedding would produce best accuracy, the joy of endless hours of cleaning and scrubbing barrels to bare metal, or not, the processes for weighting 37 randomly connected handloading variables that change independently over the course of the moon's phases and most importantly of all the accumulation of an entire library of arcane spells to incant at various times in the loading and shooting cycle, plus associated curses used after the shot is let off.


Young'uns got it too easy today...