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Many don't know it, but the modern in-line black powdah rifles aren't anything new. They first appeared with flip-open breeches, similar to a Trapdoor Springfield, in the late 1700s, but as custom one-of-a-kind arms. The 52-caliber Hall rifle pictured below, while technically not an in-line' for the ignition, was 1st patented in 1811 and was only delayed in adoption by the US military by the War of 1812.

Maybe to the purists it isn't a true in-line per se, as the ignition comes in from the top, but it is quite ingenious and cool to say the least!

It finally was officially adopted as the 1st breech-loading rifle ever issued to US troops in 1819, with the first models issued as flintlock ignition. It is a marvel of engineering! And truth be told, while Eli Whitney and the cotton gin get the public credit for interchangeable parts, it was the Hall rifle, and associated tooling as designed by the inventor John Hall, that should be properly credited with a production style for consistent tooling and gauging, so that parts were truly interchangeable.

In fact, it is said that they took 100 different Hall rifles off the production line at Harpers Ferry Armory and took them apart ... and reassembled them with all different parts used in the assembly and EVERY rifle met the acceptance specs and criteria.

I've been wanting an original flintlock version for a LONG time, but I refuse to mortgage the house to do so. I saw this later percussion version on auction with low bids and I threw in a low bid and surprise - surprise - I won it! The shape it arrived in was much better than the auction pictures and description. To add more value, this model is only one of 4,000 produced, which makes it the most rare in regards to production model numbers. I could easily flip it and make a good $500 or twice that!

It is a breech loading 52-caliber rifle. As seen in the pictures, you flip open the lever in front of the trigger guard and the breech block opens. You put in the powder (82-grn and 100-grn service loads) then add a 0.525" (52-cal) roundball on top, close the action, put on a cap .. bring to full cock and fire away.

Some interesting features are:

* All interchangeable parts
* 1st issued breech loaded to a standing army
* Truly ambidextrous rifle, both lefties and righties can operate it. (Hammer is amidst the action, so the sights are actually off-set to the left by a good 1/4", not unlike the Bren machine gun of WW2).
* Has a screw adjustable sear to adjust the let-off from a hair trigger to a battle trigger
* Had a rate of fire twice that of muzzleloaders at that time (early 1800s)
* Accuracy was also greater than muskets of that period

The first 4 photos below are of the 1843 model I just stole ... and HECK YES I will shoot it! Yeah, it has some gas escape where the breech closes, not unlike a revolver ... but it is a hoot to shoot! ... and I resolve to have one someday in flintlock.

That Hall flintlock will be the centerpiece of my shootable collection of black powdah arms from the handgonnes of the 1500s to matchlocks, wheellocks, and flintlocks through the late 1700s, maybe up to the early 1800s.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


All of my MZL'drs will shoot into ONE ragged hole ALL day long ... it's just those darn 2nd & 3rd+ shots that tend to open up my groups!
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I think the Ferguson pre-dates the Hall by a good bit and was a little more normal in appearance. Read an article a few years back about some guys making new ones, and they were very nice, also really expensive.

Ferguson was a British officer and is credited with passing up a chance to kill G. Washington, but declined the opportunity as unsporting. American rifleman had no such foolish notions holding them back and killed Ferguson at Cowpens, if memory serves.

Edit: It was at King's Mountain, not The Cowpens. So much for memory.🙄

Last edited by Pappy348; 11/29/16.

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That's just damned cool.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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yeah it is.

I really didn't need to see these...

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Originally Posted by RWE
yeah it is.

I really didn't need to see these...


Oh, here we go...


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted by 4ager
Originally Posted by RWE
yeah it is.

I really didn't need to see these...


Oh, here we go...


Bet he can find one....cheap. whistle


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Very cool.


An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.

the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.

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Originally Posted by Raeford
Originally Posted by 4ager
Originally Posted by RWE
yeah it is.

I really didn't need to see these...


Oh, here we go...


Bet he can find one ...cheap. whistle

Ohhhh if I can make an offer on the flint version I'm looking at, I'd sell this percussion model in a second!

It certainly won't be 'cheap', but as compared to current pricing on Gun Broker ... it will be $100s less for a better item! The one in GB has a broken stock and average $2,500+ for percussion models. I didn't pay anywhere near that ...

Last edited by Flint62Smoothie; 11/29/16.

All of my MZL'drs will shoot into ONE ragged hole ALL day long ... it's just those darn 2nd & 3rd+ shots that tend to open up my groups!
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Oh, I won't buy one.

Give a dwarf a file.....

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Originally Posted by Pappy348
I think the Ferguson pre-dates the Hall by a good bit and was a little more normal in appearance. Read an article a few years back about some guys making new ones, and they were very nice, also really expensive.

Ferguson was a British officer and is credited with passing up a chance to kill G. Washington, but declined the opportunity as unsporting. American rifleman had no such foolish notions holding them back and killed Ferguson at Cowpens, if memory serves.

Edit: It was at King's Mountain, not The Cowpens. So much for memory.🙄


Trust me. You don't want a Ferguson rifle!


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Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester

"Come, shall we go and kill us venison?
And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools,
Being native burghers of this desert city,
Should in their own confines with forked heads
Have their round haunches gored."

WS

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Leaky?


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Originally Posted by Pappy348
Leaky?


An understatement. Apparently an issue with both originals and repros. I had one of the Naragansett Arms repros. Well made exact copy. Got it from an estate for a song!

Shot it once. That was enough for me. At least the Hall's were a better thought out arrangement. I still think Col. Colemans son was using a flint Hall down here when their family was hit by a band ofhostiles in 1839. He was reported to have used a "breech loading" gun in the massacre.

Postscript

Albert Coleman and his mother were killed by the Indians. According to Wilbarger's epic "Indian Depredations in Texas" he wrote that the oldest boy, Albert, used a breech loading "jaeger" rifle. And that he yelled loudly to imaginary confederates in the cabin as he loaded and fired. Allowing his siblings a chance to escape theu a trapdoor in the cabin floor.

Last edited by kaywoodie; 12/04/16.

Founder
Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester

"Come, shall we go and kill us venison?
And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools,
Being native burghers of this desert city,
Should in their own confines with forked heads
Have their round haunches gored."

WS

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The Halls leak no more than a percussion revolver ... albeit it is a rifle caliber (52-cal, firing a 0.525" ball) where the service loads were 82 or 100-grains!

Other than that ... a piece of cake!


All of my MZL'drs will shoot into ONE ragged hole ALL day long ... it's just those darn 2nd & 3rd+ shots that tend to open up my groups!
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Nice thing about that was it was away from your face!!! Ferguson put blast right in your eyes and forehead! There were some Reenactors back in the 80's trying to get some Halls custom built. I think they got a dozen or so assembled. (Then again there's a group trying to get some 1895 Lee-Winchester straight pull Naval rifles put together too! Geez what a nightmare.).

Always was intrigued by those inline flinters as in Danish (or Swedish) National Museum. Pretty cool pieces!


Last edited by kaywoodie; 12/05/16.

Founder
Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester

"Come, shall we go and kill us venison?
And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools,
Being native burghers of this desert city,
Should in their own confines with forked heads
Have their round haunches gored."

WS

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Posts: 28,526
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I'd like to see a decent underhammer rifle for a reasonable price. The big-bore ones from out on the coast are nice, but the prices are insane. I know there are actions available for the do-it-yourself crowd, but I just want to buy and shoot.


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Originally Posted by Pappy348
I'd like to see a decent underhammer rifle for a reasonable price.

I thought Deer Creek sold underhammers that were made from the old Hopkins & Allen tooling & design? I seem to recall the prices were decent.


All of my MZL'drs will shoot into ONE ragged hole ALL day long ... it's just those darn 2nd & 3rd+ shots that tend to open up my groups!

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