Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Biggest return on your investment 6.5mm or 7mm?

Since I haven't seen a 308 vs 30-06 thread in awhile, I figure a good brawl at the campfire is in order for the holidays! So let's get to it!

9 out of 10 Internet geniuses say, the golden ratio for what you get back for what you put in falls on the shoulders of the 6.5mm or 7mm? (Yes, I know the .270 is between these two but please don't...)

So which one offers the most for all the constraints we badger ourselves with - recoil, long range effectiveness, effectiveness on game, works great in every cartridge, gets you laid, bucks the wind, easily hits steel at 1000 yards with iron sights, etc. etc. etc.!?

I am asking mostly because I've been sniffing around getting a 6.5x55 or 6.5 Creedmoor; 280 or a 7 mag of some flavor.

What say ye?

Get both and decide for yourself.

Strictly as a caliber for BG hunting, 7mm.

For long range play,gong matches, serious NRA match shooting, general shooting fun, and some BG hunting, 6.5.

Of course there's nothing saying you can't use a 7mm for the same stuff but it's bucking a trend to the 6.5's and 6mm's from what I see.

I am new to the 6.5 thing...I have both. But I would take the 7mm all day long for NA BG hunting.

Bob,

Where do you think the 7 really shines? 280 or something bigger?

I've used 7 RM and 6.5X55 for a number of years. For my purposes it's six of one and half-a-dozen of the other as far as effectiveness goes. I've actually killed (by a slight margin) deer at greater distance with the 6.5X55, but that's a product of circumstance.

I like shooting the 6.5X55's better, they use less powder, make less noise, are more accurate (in my experience and rifles) and are generally better behaved.

4winds: 7mm shines everywhere from 7/08 to 28 Nosler....IMHO...

If I were choosing, it would be a boring old 7mm Rem Mag or 280 Remington.

If you want to be more contemporary the 280AI.

Without question my favorite is the 7mm Mashburn Super but it's a wildcat so not to be recommended for everyone.

The nice thing about 7mm as a caliber is we have so many choices no matter how you want to roll.

I'd hunt the continent with a 280.

I agree with Bob. I've owned both a 280 and various 7 mags since the early 1980s. It's tough to beat a 140 for deer size creatures and a 160 for about anything else. I used to set up my 280 with a 145 Speer for deer and a 160 Speer for anything else. And of course shot deer with the 160. Both have enough velocity to make a mess with softer bullets. I wish I would have used Partitions in the early days. I threw away alot of shoulder meat with both guns. If my 270 didn't shoot so well, it be a 280 AI. I still may get one just because the 280 is magic. At least to me.

I can't comment on the 6.5 as a out the only one I've shot much is the 6.5x55. The ole MS is deadly at its sedate vels. All the kids shot either a 243 or 6.5 for their first rifles.

I figured so on the 280, my Mauser may just be fitted with a new barrel in a 280 after the holidays. My other thoughts for it was the 6.5x55.

I've had a cz 550fs in 6.5x55 and thought it was a fine cartridge, but the rifle wasn't all that pleasant to shoot due to the stock not fitting me. The Creedmoor fad has certainly peaked my interest as I have a 308 in a Kimber 84M Montana that I have been toying with changing to a custom tube. I'm really looking for a light rifle to scurry up and down the hills with, but with a lot less recoil to keep it pleasant to shoot.

I have other rifles for elk, so, critters below their size need only apply.

So we narrow the criteria......

I'd get a custom tube for the Montana chambered for 6.5 Creedmoor and leave the elk sized stuff to the other rifles in your battery.

There would be nothing wrong with getting a custom tube in 280 for the mauser, as well.

I'm SO relieved.

But what bullet does one choose for a continent?

North Fork solid. Deep penetration is required to stop a continent.

Ok Ok you guys are funny haha!

You know what i meant.

I'm with the 280 - 7mm RM crowd. Of course if you were to hunt coyotes then:

YOU WOULD JUST HAVE TOO INCLUDE THE COYOTE CARTRIDGE, THE 270.

My two favorite rifles in my cabinet are a .260 and a 7x57. most used gun in the cabinet............... .243 winchester.........

I'm a 260 Remington guy, but I'd pick the 6.5 Creedmore today.

What size game are you hunting?

If you're looking at the most performance for the least recoil on paper and steel, I'd say neither and suggest a 6mm Dasher. For game, unless you're looking at elk, moose and large bears, I'd still say stick with the six.

6.5, with the Creed filling your criteria....

These days I own and hunt with twice as many 6.5mm rifles as 7mm's. They're both great calibers, but I would hesitate to hunt Montana with any of my 6.5's.

Yeah, I know Montana's not as big as "the continent," but that's part of why I'd go 6.5--their well-known precision would make it easier hit the smaller vital zone of Montana. No doubt a 7mm would do okay on something as large as North America.

Never ceases to amaze......
all the love for a cartridge loaded to 60,000psi to accomplish what has been done by another cartridge at 51,000psi for over 100 yrs.???

I'm still stuck on the 'gets you laid' part of the question. Tell me again how that all works in millimeters?

Have both--still prefer a 30 caliber for game killing.

Things are tough for the Swede..Too long for a short, too short for a long. meaning unless you have a thing for it may as well go 6.5'06( i kinda do have a thing for the swede tho, i have 3 of them

4winds

I've had extensive use/experience with 7 RM>>270 W. I know what I can do with them and how easy it is to do it.

I got my Swede -M 70 - and I spent a YEAR in research, testing, chronoing, etc. JUST to get a 120 gr NBT close to 3000 fps. ok, not bad for a small capacity cartridge.

I'd take 270/280/7RM anyday and TWICE on Sunday over another Swede.

I'll NEVER have another. The others will do MORE with LESS hassle.

I'm not much on 'settling'.

This is my PREFERENCE from my experience. Obviously the mileage of others varies. You only have to please yourself.

Jerry

LMAO. Enough mm to get the job done, which I have plenty of...at least thats what I tell myself!



About anything that I can get a chance to. It's the money permitting part that always throws a wrench in, though!



None of this helps my addiction to rifle loonyism.




Wiser word have never been spoken, especially helps with an occasionally pissed off wife!

The only real conflict for setting up my Mauser has been deciding between a 280 and a 270. I've been contemplating the Swede for the same but that may require some modding for the bolt due to the thicker rim, but I may be wrong on that one. When it comes to practicality, the 270 seems to be way ahead of the other 2. I always seem to start thinking about bullet selection and talk myself out of that idea with the notion that the 7mm is lightyears better with heavier pills in the wind.

As far as the Kimber 84M, I thought the 6.5 Creedmoor would be a great cartridge due to the magazine constraints with the Montana, as I prefer heavy for caliber bullets. Plus it is a pussycat with recoil, which (IMHO) really helps with such a light platform. I'm sure the 6.5 can kill everything imaginable with correct bullet placement, but I enjoy the extra confidence in a larger caliber for ELK+ critters. So, this would basically be set for killing blackies to yotes and will be used quite a bit in comparison to my other rifles. I'm not averse to using a 6mm Creedmoor, and have thought about it as an option as well.

4winds,

Normally Mausers don't have any trouble handling the 6.5x55 rim, and in the rare instances they do it's an easy and inexpensive fix. So don't let that hold you back!

On the other hand, there's certainly nothing wrong with the .270. But you may not want to listen to me anyway, since I not only have both a 6.5x55 custom rifle on a commercial FN 98 action, but an O'Connor Commemorative Model 70 .270. Plus another 6.5x55 (a Norwegian Krag), 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, .260 Remington, 26 Nosler, and a drilling with a 6.5x57R rifle barrel. Oh, and a 7mm-08, 7x57, .280 AI and 7mm Remington Magnum. So I obviously haven't made my mind up either!

obviously you are short a 280...

Been there, done that, several times, in fact hunted a lot with the .280 in the 1990's. Even owned (and hunted) with another .280 AI, but this one is "different." :-)

Also .284 Winchester, 7mm SAUM, 7mm STW, two other 7-08's, several other 7mm Remington Magnums, and at least a dozen other 7x57's. It ain't rational, but sometimes it is kinda fun!

That's what it's all about!

I'm continuously amused by the wind issues associated with the 270.

Most of the people out there shooting BG animals have no business making a wind call at distance on a live animal. They have no experience.They should pass no matter what they shoot if the wind is full value and they are not certain.

And if the cartridge and its bullets were so bad in the BG fields it would not have continued to kill so many animals year in and year out.

Whenever I hear someone trash the 270 as a BG cartridge I figure his experience is pretty thin and they are repeating what some other internet "expert" stated.

Personally I never saw 2 cents of difference between a 280 and a 270.


Here's couple of those lousy 277 bullets from a 360 class bull elk.....

Bob,

Obviously it takes two .270 bullets to do the work other cartridges do with one!

(Don't get upset, now. The last bull I killed got shot with two 160-grain Partitions from a 7mm magnum. The first was plenty but the elk was still upright, and I usually don't quit shooting until they're lying down peacefully....)

For some reason, I have the idea of a 275 H&H stuck in my head. Not really practical, but it sounds fun.

elkchsr, was checking some of the threads, the list of older rifles you use is quite impressive.. Enjoyed it.

John,

If you ever decide to act on that notion, I have a few boxes of old but never-fired Western .275 H&H brass in good shape. Bought 'em off the Campfire a couple-three years ago, just because of the possibility of finding a .275 H&H someday. So far I haven't, but they're here.

One nice thing about the .275 is, unlike some other British .28 calibers, it uses .284" bullets rather than .288's.

Obvisously ,beings you were shooting a .277 caliber rifle, the bull trotted up to you and dropped the expended bullets in your hand and trotted off. He may have told you to be more careful also or you could hurt some one!!!!!!

We had a neighbor (back in the 50's) that couldn't stand recoil. He used to shoot (poach) deer multiple times with his 22. He would probably think even the 270 had too much recoil.

So don't feel bad about that 270 and your elk.

John that's the whole point.....shoot as long as they are standing. That will happen with elk no matter what you shoot them with.

LOL

You should've used something with more energy, Bob!

I had a 270, you'll never hear me argue it's effectiveness.

Most of what I described earlier is that rifle loony voice talking in my ear that there has to be something better or gives you an edge over the established cartridges like the 270 or 30-06, etc. I know damned well, though, that if there were any improvement at all, it would be so small that it's not worth chasing the impracticality of it all. My 270 hammered everything I pointed it at, and I've never pulled the trigger on anything past 300 yards. But that makes no difference, the campfire has all the answers and everyone on here is always right with whatever it is they are trying to upsell!

With that said, the 6.5 Creedmoor keeps on singing to me...

My current 270 loaded with a max charge of Re26 over a 150 Partition is the only thing that kept me from buying a 280AI. Running the numbers - 150/270, 160/280AI - there isn't much difference between them. In fact the 270 shoots a wee bit flatter.

Yep. After reading the recent thread about Re26, 4lbs magically showed up at my door!

I'll keep that in mind. I have never even seen a rifle chambered in 275. No running to the hardware store to pick up more ammo, that's for sure.

Thanks! I've had to suffer a "bad influence" in my formative years.

Investment...really.

280, 280AI, 7 mag of some kind. If this is to be your main big game hunting rifle, you could not go wrong with any of these.

When I finally go on an Elk hunt, I will not be bringing my 6.5x47 Lapua. I get that it would probably work just fine. I get the whole bullet placement argument. I am not saying that it would be a "marginal" cartridge for Elk. Just saying that I would feel more confident with a slightly bigger stick.

Teeder yeah.....a case of inadequate energy dump....LOL

John,

What happened to your 6.5-06?

If I could have only one 6.5 cartridge to hunt with it would be the 6.5-06.

Georgia = whitetails. I say 6.5 Creed. Only other thing I could say is 7-08.

Dat's it.

No no, its neither too short nor too long, (like Goldilocks said) "it's juuust right".

I'm loving my 6.5-06 but of the cartridges mentioned I like the performance to recoil of the 7mm Mag. I am currently shopping for a 6.5 Creedmore though to play with.

7-08 gets a lot done with little powder. Kinda irritating to a 280 lover.

I don't want a truck that will do 90% of what I need done.

I don't want a tractor that will do 90 % of what I need done.

There are 'several' cartridges that will do 90 % of what their big brothers DO.

Jerry

Yeah, a .375 H&H is a much better choice than any 6.5 or 7mm, just in case a brown bear or Cape buffalo shows up at your door.

I have a 7mm-08, a 7x57, a 280 and 7mm RM's.

I prefer long actions so That I can seat the bullets where I like. For that reason and flexibility I like the 280. But I like the others too.

As far as accuracy the 280 with 150 grain partitions and one of my 7mm RM's with several bullets (interlocks) shoot 1/2 MOA.

None of them recoil enuf to matter. The 7x57 shoots cast bullets very well.

I'm glad I can still keep them all. (Along with my coyote rifles - the 270's).

If it came down to which I'd keep because of powder cost, I'd be very unhappy with the situation.

OKAY - I should have mentioned some parameters. I think you know what I meant.

BTW, I don't need B bear or Cape Buffalo capable rifle.

IOWs, there are quite a few cartridges that WOULD HAVE accomplished 90% my deer hunting needs but there has been that OTHER 10%. I don't like 'settling'.

Jerry

Jerry,

Yeah, I knew what you meant! :-)

But are you saying that a 6.5mm will only do 90% of what a 7mm will do?

Holland & Holland has .275H&H bullet diameter at .287", and its the precise reason Woodleigh specifically
make the .287" 160PP and 175PP

280 Halger, 280-333 Jeffery ,280 Ross also use .287" projectiles.

Maybe its the Pre-war factory M70 .275H&H that has the obscure .284", but I don't know because I've never seen one.

NO, not at all. I was talking about 6.5 Swede // 270,280.

OR 708 // 280 with handloads

and others in similar category or comparison.


Now, I also know that IF you have time to use
Binos..
LRF..
Read Drop Chart..
Twist turret..--<I left this one out>
Aim..
Shoot

THEN the 6.5 Cred, Swede, 7-08 etc. WILL kill at longer ranges.

I like--PREFER-- faster, flatter shooting cartridges so that up to reasonable long range you 'hold on hair' and shoot.

Thnx for asking

Jerry

Starman,

You're right.

Dunno about the Model 70's, but apparently quite a few American .275 H&H's were built with .284" bores to get around the bullet problem. And even some H&H rifles would apparently handle .284" bullets, just as some .303's will shoot .308 bullets well.

7mm will get you laid more often, 6.5 will get you more satisfying sex. Quantity vs. quality.

I think the .375 H&H would be the cartridge of choice for hunting the "Big 7" rather than only this continent.

Is this a Central American vs. Sweden comparison? Either way it sounds like a win.

More of I've lived close to the border with Latin America all of my life and traveled there on business a couple of times a month for several years. So the Nordic gig is newer and more exciting to me.

From my Prejudiced Point of View.

I've been shooting/hunting 270s, 7 RMs, 300 WMs, & 8mm RM so long I know my point of view is prejudiced so....

Last year I spent a lot of time in developing a load for my 6.5X55. I accomplished - 120 gr N BT--3000 fps. I know that ain't bad BUT...

IMO it is YAWN, ho hum, piddly diddly.

I suggest that you try light weight Barnes etc. for HI vel with monos for trajectory.

The heavier c/c 140s & 160 at SLOW vel DON'T interest me.

Good Luck

Jerry

Jerry,

I hunted my first years with a 300 win mag mostly, 7 rem mag, 7X57, 45/70 and 270 win. For the last 12 years ive mostly hunted the 270.

This year i tried the 6.5X55 swede the last 2 weeks of hunting season. Ive only got two deer with the swede and so far Im very impressed. Especially when the 4x4 buck I shot at 290 yds did a backflip and planted firmly in the dirt with a lung shot. My experience with the wicked little 6.5 has been anything but hohum thus far.


Trystan

I'm glad for you. That's good.

I've killed at least 6 w/mine and they surenuff were dead and others killed by larger cartridges were not any more 'deaderer'. grin

It's just not my cup o tea, I guess.

To each his own.

Good hunting and shooting.

Jerry

I have killed all kinds of deer and hogs with a 243, 270, 7mm-08 and 7mm Mag. My go-to guns are now a 308 and a 35 Whelen. I am thinking of rebuilding my old 7mm Mag. It was a good rifle, but my 308 is lighter and my Whelen just puts a bigger hole with minimum meat damage. I killed a ton of deer with the 270 years ago, but was not really satisfied with it. That was before the good bullets that we have now. Probably do OK with better bullets.

Any of them will kill deer. You just have to find what suits you.

Gladesman

That's very well put. I can hear the wind in your breeze.

Jerry

I have to confess that my stories won't match yours.

After rereading the OP's subject line, I decided that beings I have a grand into my .260 and killed maybe 10 animals with it and I have zero dollars into my 7x57 and have shot one shell out of it to kill on bull elk, My 7x57 has represented the best return on my investment thus far....

Thanks for the chuckle...

Indeed!

I have never taken a quartering shot at a deer with a 6.5mm. This is despite having owned a 260 and currently owning a 6.5x47. I have never lost a deer or had to track one more than 50 yards. I have taken quartering shots with a 280AI and a 270 Win. I have typically loaded more frangible or rapidly expanding bullets in my 6.5's. I just feel more confident with taking a longer shot like this with a "medium" 7mm and a heavier bullet. Southern Whitetail can present as long of a shot as a Mule Deer in New Mexico. Why not have a little extra insurance with your one gun.

That's good alright BUT...

I inherited a Rem M Six 270 from my Dad. O $ invested and many whitetail dead.
**how many whitetail = 1 elk ? ** Don't know, maybe we're even.

Jerry

I don't see a 6.5x47 Lapua listed there MD. Once you try that one, the others will become safe queens!

John

Is factory ammo availability a concern for you? If so, I'd go 7mm Rem Mag. Could still load long range VLD type bullets if that's your game and can get factory ammo just about anywhere if your ammo fails to arrive with you. If COMMON factory ammo is NOT a worry, I would much rather shoot some of the other chamberings you mentioned, namely the 6.5CM and one you haven't mentioned, the 6.5x47. Very high shootability to performance ratio in those two...

John

Montana Heart Shot: right in the Butte!

Probably a geography thing. Women in Oregon have unusual tastes I've been told.

I actually have never owned a rifle chambered in any 7mm caliber. The vast majority of big game I've killed was with a .270. I bought in 1972 with calf money when I was 13 and semi-retired it when I got my 6.5x55 five or six years ago.

For 99.99% of the hunting I've done and will do it would not matter whether the caliber is .264, .277 or .284.

It's most definitely a geography thing. Lots of Subaru driving women in Oregon for sure. But even those interested in men have often have a PITA attitude. Obviously this is worse in urban areas than rural.

Poked In The A**?

nine pages, and in nine pages the 8RM was only mentioned once and I have yet to see a reference to a 35 caliber...

I have just recently jumped on the 6.5 bandwagon with a .260. So far, I am impressed, but it does not hold a candle to my 7 mag for elk punching.

The .260 is now my favorite deer shooter, edging out my .308s, but I have shot too many elk with 160 Partitions3000 fps out of the 7 mag, to ever consider pushing it aside for a 6.5.

Both have their place, for sure and both will kill. I just like a little more punch for bigger stuff.